SEC, Big Ten to push for seeding changes to 2025 College Football Playoff

[upnorthkid]

True, but Union is a tiny, tiny school, and hardly a hockey blueblood. I guess that's what I was getting at. And isn't the ECAC probably the lowest ranked of the D1 hockey conferences? Either that or Atlantic Hockey.

It’s Atlantic hockey and it’s not close. The CCHA is probably behind the ECAC now as well

 

[GopherGrit]

I'll say it again. There should be 16 teams so we eliminate byes (which I think could be actually detrimental). ALL FBS conference champions should get an autobid, and then the rest at-large based on the rankings. Seed from there. Does that mean that the MAC and CUSA etc. champs get in? Yep. Just like the UMAC does in D3. I'd rather see that than the 4th place B1G school get in, even if that meant the Gophers missed it as a result.

Agree on 16 and no byes in the first round.

After that, I don't agree with much of what you say here.


FBS, BCS, CFP ... call it whatever you want to call it ... this has never been anything like a regular NCAA division or sub-division (football only) and it never will be. That is not a valid comparison, in my opinion.


It will be 16, but 12 auto-bids will go to four conferences (Big Ten, SEC x4 each, ACC, Big 12 x2 each).

 

[GopherGrit]

I think it would be sweet if final 4 was two bowl games on New Year’s Day Rose and something else

And national title game was two Saturdays after that (so somewhere between 8 and 14 days later)

This basically pushes the current schedule back a week ... where they do the quarter-finals around NYD and then made Orange and Cotton play a week after. (Can't remember if they're going to rotate who has to play the week after or not ... I know the Rose wants to stay fixed on NYD)

You'd have to fit in two rounds of playoff (the first and the quarter) before NYD. That will be a busy December, with finals.

Do you think both the first round and quarter should be on-campus (higher seed) or would you still have quarters be bowl games or somehow neutral?

 

[GopherGrit]

I mean that’s fine with me if they do. Haven’t seen it happen other than in meaningless bowl games. Their choice if they’d want to give up a possible bye or seeding I guess

Ending the CCG is also an option

But instead it sounds like they're expanding that week to make it into something like a defacto play-in round into the playoff.

TV will love it. It was tough for them going from rivalry week then suddenly dropping down to just the 10 CCG games (and some others I think).

 

[upnorthkid]

Agree on 16 and no byes in the first round.

After that, I don't agree with much of what you say here.


FBS, BCS, CFP ... call it whatever you want to call it ... this has never been anything like a regular NCAA division or sub-division (football only) and it never will be. That is not a valid comparison, in my opinion.


It will be 16, but 12 auto-bids will go to four conferences (Big Ten, SEC x4 each, ACC, Big 12 x2 each).

I don’t think any of us who are saying all should get their cc in are saying it will happen. It won’t. Ever. Just saying that’s what I’d rather have. It’s all the top teams of their conference. You don’t get in, that’s your fault for not winning your conference. Is part of the magic of March madness to see the little guys against the big ones

 

[Some guy]

I don’t think any of us who are saying all should get their cc in are saying it will happen. It won’t. Ever. Just saying that’s what I’d rather have. It’s all the top teams of their conference. You don’t get in, that’s your fault for not winning your conference. Is part of the magic of March madness to see the little guys against the big ones

Agree

I was a fan of 12 and proponent of 12 but thought it should be 12 with 10 automatic bids for the 10 conference champs

Would be open to a stipulation the 10 conference champs lose their bid if they aren’t top 25 or something.


Once it was only 5 conference champs, 8 was probably the right number.

 

[Ope3]

True, but Union is a tiny, tiny school, and hardly a hockey blueblood. I guess that's what I was getting at. And isn't the ECAC probably the lowest ranked of the D1 hockey conferences? Either that or Atlantic Hockey.

Agree on the upset aspect of a school like Union over Minnesota.

As for the ECAC as a whole, I don't think it is much weaker than the Big 10, Hockey East or NCHC. It's a very impressive collection of academic institutions in my opinion with pretty strong hockey tradition.

The ECAC has produced 3 National Champions since 2013, Yale to go along with Union and Quinnipiac who both beat the Gophers in the Title Game.

Add Harvard in 1989 and Minnesota is 0-3 vs the ECAC in the Championship Game.

 

[Dave H]

The ECAC is better now for sure, but before 2013 they were not thought of in the same light as the WCHA/Big Ten or HEA. College hockey is different now.

 

[Dave H]

Agree

I was a fan of 12 and proponent of 12 but thought it should be 12 with 10 automatic bids for the 10 conference champs

Would be open to a stipulation the 10 conference champs lose their bid if they aren’t top 25 or something.


Once it was only 5 conference champs, 8 was probably the right number.

Such a stipulation makes the autobid worthless IMHO. What are the chances a mid-major will be Top 25? What are the chances all of them will be? No that is just another way to keep them out and have more P4 in.

Basketball has it right (as do most leagues) and if football is hellbent on having a stupid tournament they should do it like everyone else.

 

[disco]

I don’t think any of us who are saying all should get their cc in are saying it will happen. It won’t. Ever. Just saying that’s what I’d rather have. It’s all the top teams of their conference. You don’t get in, that’s your fault for not winning your conference. Is part of the magic of March madness to see the little guys against the big ones

Exactly. I don't expect it WILL happen. I just think it SHOULD happen. It should be run like all the lower divisions of football, and like basketball. Win your conference - auto bid.

 

[Some guy]

Such a stipulation makes the autobid worthless IMHO. What are the chances a mid-major will be Top 25? What are the chances all of them will be? No that is just another way to keep them out and have more P4 in.

Basketball has it right (as do most leagues) and if football is hellbent on having a stupid tournament they should do it like everyone else.

If there was a stipulation I would want it with an objective formula rather than a committee

If every conference got an autobid of their champ was top 25 last year Army would have been in, SMU would have been out.

Ohio and Marshall would have been the team with the biggest gripes to be left out.

 

[btowngopher]

All of this. I remember when in hockey blowouts happened with the conference qualifiers from smaller schools...until they didn't. Over time the smaller conferences will get stronger as athletes realize they can make the grand stage even at a MAC school.

Not gonna happen unless the small conference up there NIL game. Money is more important than winning.

 

[GopherEnEspaña]

The SEC were always going to rig it is so their 9-3/8-4 teams have a chance to win it. I knew once Ole Miss/Bama were left out things were going to change ASAP.

I hate what this beloved sport has become (The B1G deserves it's blame too)

 

[PMWinSTP]

Straightforward. CFP top 16 ranked at the end of the season. No byes. Home games 1st & 2nd rounds. Being ranked in the top eight and playing at home is plenty of incentive. It would be fantastic.

 

[disco]

Straightforward. CFP top 16 ranked at the end of the season. No byes. Home games 1st & 2nd rounds. Being ranked in the top eight and playing at home is plenty of incentive. It would be fantastic.

Then you need a very strict ranking formula. No subjective committee stuff leaving out a 11-1 Boise State to get 8-4 Ole Miss in.

 

[PMWinSTP]

Then you need a very strict ranking formula. No subjective committee stuff leaving out a 11-1 Boise State to get 8-4 Ole Miss in.

Looking back at the rankings from past years, are you saying that would have happened? I don't see it and there were only two or four teams being selected. I mean, Cincinnati made it in...so I'm not seeing it.

 

[Some guy]

Looking back at the rankings from past years, are you saying that would have happened? I don't see it and there were only two or four teams being selected. I mean, Cincinnati made it in...so I'm not seeing it.

We saw it this year with Alabama rated higher than Miami and any number of teams ahead of BYU that shouldn’t have been

Texas rated third with two losses and few quality wins.

Tennessee with two losses (one of which was to 6-6 Arkansas) and 1 win over a team with 8+ wins rated higher than Arizona State, Indiana, and Boise state

Penn state rated higher than Ohio state in spite of Ohio state having better wins and both having losses to the same teams (plus head to head)

 

[bleedsmaroonandgold]

After the way they fell flat on their face last year, it seems like the SEC shouldn't be taken seriously when they try to lobby for a format that gives them more favorable seeding.

 

[GopherGrit]

Then you need a very strict ranking formula. No subjective committee stuff leaving out a 11-1 Boise State to get 8-4 Ole Miss in.

That is one of the best things about the newer proposals, how much they minimize the committee's influence.

 

[Some guy]

That is one of the best things about the newer proposals, how much they minimize the committee's influence.

Yup.
I wouldn’t mind it being like the champions league.

Each league gets allotted spots based on a formula over a 5 year span:

16 spots
SEC gets 4
Big ten gets 4
Big 12 gets 2
ACC gets 2
Mountain west gets 1

Last 3 spots are for “championship Saturday winners”
MAC champ vs big ten 5
Sun belt champ vs SEC 5
Big 12 3 vs ACC 3


Or something like that

 

[GopherGrit]

Yup.
I wouldn’t mind it being like the champions league.

Each league gets allotted spots based on a formula over a 5 year span:

16 spots
SEC gets 4
Big ten gets 4
Big 12 gets 2
ACC gets 2
Mountain west gets 1

Last 3 spots are for “championship Saturday winners”
MAC champ vs big ten 5
Sun belt champ vs SEC 5
Big 12 3 vs ACC 3


Or something like that

That would be cool.

Realistically Notre Dame would have to figure in

 

[Some guy]

That would be cool.

Realistically Notre Dame would have to figure in

If you went to that methodology, independents would have to either affiliate with a conference or be left out.

I imagine both notre dame and the ACC would want notre dame to count as ACC because notre dame needs a way in and the ACC would rate higher if you included notre dame


The way I drew it up would have to change and be more detailed. That was just to demonstrate what the model would look like.

 

[Some guy]

Yup.
I wouldn’t mind it being like the champions league.

Each league gets allotted spots based on a formula over a 5 year span:

16 spots
SEC gets 3
Big ten gets 3
Big 12 gets 2
ACC gets 2
Mountain west gets 1

Last 3 spots are for “championship Saturday winners”
MAC champ vs big ten 5
Sun belt champ vs SEC 5
Big 12 3 vs ACC 3

American champ vs big ten 4
CUSA champ vs SEC 4

What this would have looked like assuming Notre Dame was ACC:

Championship Saturday:
Army vs Ohio state
Jacksonville State vs Alabama
South Carolina vs Marshall
Illinois vs Ohio
Clemson vs Iowa state


Winners join a field that includes:
Indiana
Penn state
Oregon
Texas
Georgia
Tennessee
Arizona state
Colorado
Notre Dame
SMU
Boise State

All committee does is seed

 

[GopherGrit]

If you went to that methodology, independents would have to either affiliate with a conference or be left out.

I imagine both notre dame and the ACC would want notre dame to count as ACC because notre dame needs a way in and the ACC would rate higher if you included notre dame


The way I drew it up would have to change and be more detailed. That was just to demonstrate what the model would look like.

Could also do:

SEC gets 4
Big ten gets 4
Big 12 gets 2
ACC gets 2

MW champ vs highest ranked Independent
MAC champ vs big ten 5
Sun belt champ vs SEC 5
Big 12 3 vs ACC 3


Granted that's only Notre Dame and UConn right now, so it's like caving to Notre Dame and giving them a special spot ... but it makes them play something kinda like a championship weekend game that they don't have to play right now.


And would those lower conf teams still play a championship game to determine who then gets to play this play-in game? Or would they just determine the champ somehow from regular season?

Not saying you need to come up with this now. It is a cool idea!

 

[GopherGrit]

*EDIT: I think somewhere the American conf got missed.

Still cool idea, it could be worked out

 

[Some guy]

Could also do:

SEC gets 4
Big ten gets 4
Big 12 gets 2
ACC gets 2

MW champ vs highest ranked Independent
MAC champ vs big ten 5
Sun belt champ vs SEC 5
Big 12 3 vs ACC 3


Granted that's only Notre Dame and UConn right now, so it's like caving to Notre Dame and giving them a special spot ... but it makes them play something kinda like a championship weekend game that they don't have to play right now.


And would those lower conf teams still play a championship game to determine who then gets to play this play-in game? Or would they just determine the champ somehow from regular season?

Not saying you need to come up with this now. It is a cool idea!

If you go autobids for conference I assume it would be up to the conferences to see how those are determined

If there were auto bids in a system though it would open up a league like the big ten to playing 10 conference games without hurting playoff chances

 

[upnorthkid]

Yup.
I wouldn’t mind it being like the champions league.

Each league gets allotted spots based on a formula over a 5 year span:

16 spots
SEC gets 4
Big ten gets 4
Big 12 gets 2
ACC gets 2
Mountain west gets 1

Last 3 spots are for “championship Saturday winners”
MAC champ vs big ten 5
Sun belt champ vs SEC 5
Big 12 3 vs ACC 3


Or something like that

i like the premise in that everyone has a seat. Think you'd have to clarify if this is based on conference standings or ranking (Champions League is domestic standings only to get in, or winning a tournament). would be a major disincentive to play challenging non con games, though if it didn't hurt you, maybe they'd view it as a free swing and play?

edit: see it has been mentioned above that you're missing a conf

 

[GopherGrit]

There is also the PAC 12 that is being reborn. So that's six non-power plus Notre Dame. I think 4 guaranteed for the SEC and Big Ten is enough, so perhaps the last 4 spots in a 16 bracket could be a play-in of:

American champ v Highest Ranked Independent
MW champ v Sun Belt champ
CUSA Champ v MAC Champ
P12 Champ v Highest Ranked remaining at-large

Or something ... perhaps two at-large with Notre Dame have a defacto likely chance at one of those spots. Perhaps the four games would be determined by rankings (1st highest vs 8th highest, etc.)