Run Stoppage

[Die Hard GGF]

With the emphasis of speed on defense and the size of our d ends and the overall lack of size of our linebacking unit I'm worried about our ability to stop the run this year. I think our overall tackling in the secondary will be better but we can't rely on our back line. Big lines and big backs ie: the skunks really concern me. Any thoughts?

 

[Deleted_User]

Not sure where you get your information on our undersized unit in the linebackers or DEs. It all depends on the play and field position. Maybe in certain situations, but there is more than one way to skin a cat or clean a fish. I am certain there is more than one scheme that can be run in those situations and more than one player who can fill in a larger body when called upon. I've looked at the measurables for the backs and I am not too concerned about size this year. Maybe somebody can point out where that might be a deficiency I am not aware of (and I have many deficiencies: vitamin A, cash, brains.)

 

[Nuetral]

With the emphasis of speed on defense and the size of our d ends and the overall lack of size of our linebacking unit I'm worried about our ability to stop the run this year. I think our overall tackling in the secondary will be better but we can't rely on our back line. Big lines and big backs ie: the skunks really concern me. Any thoughts?

You need to "trust in coach kill" my friend! Coach kill has a plan to stop the run--he has plans for everything! In fact, he is the only BCS level coach out there with a plan of any type whatsoever!

 

[Winona Gopher]

I think the worry is justified. The Gophers need, and should be expecting, Rashede to be a consistent force in the middle. Then they need someone else to step up. They don't need to be anything great, just an average B1G DT. IMO Roland Johnson needs to come in and be prepared to start Week 1. Is that realistic? Probably not considering he wasn't able to participate in spring practice, but he is the 1 who I think is most ready to start along side Rashede.

 

[John Galt]

Coach Kill said on the Sports Huddle a few weeks back that Botticelli has earned a scholarship and will be a starter. Johnson and Jacques will probably end up in the two-deeps. Claeys has talked a lot about his philosophy and emphasis for speed on defense, similar to how TCU plays. I don't think we'll be seeing any 320 lb. nose tackles to occupy blockers in this defense...

 

[To Be Named Later]

What you have to trust is the nature of the scheme and how the players fit it. Claeys and Cosgrove have completely different schemes, and this is where the personnel fit in.

Cosgrove: Big, 2-gap players up front, trying to keep OL off of the LBs. The defense was a bit more passive, which sometimes gave the OL an opportunity to beat up the LBs a bit when it did not work. If you have the right personnel, this can be an excellent scheme against the run. The problem was that the Gophers never had the personnel. Jewhan Edwards was a start, but there was not enough depth behind him and the LBs were not able to shed the blocks and pick up the slack. Again, this can be a VERY good plan if you have the guys.

Claeys: The biggest difference is that the DL is only asked to cover one gap. In fact, they are not really covering a gap; they are penetrating. The goal is to be pass rush-first. Against the run, the DL are told to get in the backfield and force the RBs to make early decisions. The LBs need to be fast enough to react to where the DL go, but since the RBs (hopefully) make their cuts sooner, the LBs can sacrifice sturdiness for speed and beat the OL to where the RBs go. Again, if you have the proper guys it will work.

It is clear that Claeys and Kill think they are more likely to be able to get the faster LBs rather than the "prototypical" guys. The same goes for the DL. Since everyone is after the "prototypical" guys, they will try to exploit the lack of demand for the guys that better fit their scheme. If they have the right players for the scheme, and if those players execute their assignments, it does not matter what kind of offense they see- Wisconsin or otherwise. Of course, you can say that about any defense.

Time will tell whether or not it will work, but that is a Reader's Digest explanation of what they are trying to do. Personally, I like it because I will always err on the side of aggressiveness. I hope I'm right!

 

[highwayman]

With the emphasis of speed on defense and the size of our d ends and the overall lack of size of our linebacking unit I'm worried about our ability to stop the run this year. I think our overall tackling in the secondary will be better but we can't rely on our back line. Big lines and big backs ie: the skunks really concern me. Any thoughts?

What does that mean? We average 6'-2" and 225 lbs. What's an average NCAA linebacker?

 

[GoldenHerbs]

You need to "trust in coach kill" my friend! Coach kill has a plan to stop the run--he has plans for everything! In fact, he is the only BCS level coach out there with a plan of any type whatsoever!

His plan has worked at other schools so we will give him some time, troll.

 

[Sparlimb]

With the emphasis of speed on defense and the size of our d ends and the overall lack of size of our linebacking unit I'm worried about our ability to stop the run this year. I think our overall tackling in the secondary will be better but we can't rely on our back line. Big lines and big backs ie: the skunks really concern me. Any thoughts?

Can't be worse than last year, can it? Actually, we haven't had a decent run defense in about 15 years. But watch the game against Iowa again. Man was our run defense terrible. You can't give 7 yard per carry and win in the Big Ten (or any league). I have to hope and pray our linebacking core improves. The coaches are supposed to be good teachers, so we certainly know what to watch for.

 

[Gopher024]

You need to "trust in coach kill" my friend! Coach kill has a plan to stop the run--he has plans for everything! In fact, he is the only BCS level coach out there with a plan of any type whatsoever!

It's sad that you actually waste time in your life for this. Must be depressing.

 

[Costa Rican Gopher]

Again, if you have the proper guys it will work.

Will it work against Wisconsin when it's 3rd & 2?

Not sure, but am on-board with trying it the Claeys way, because our way (big or small) has mostly sucked. No choice here, we GOTTA trust the coaches.

Other thoughts...

* Shede MUST stay healthy. A season ending injury would be apocalyptic.

* Bottacelli needs to eat up clock, if not make plays.

* Roland Johnson MUST at least have a pulse & work with the #2's, if he's not an instant starter.

* Eric Jaques needs to improve incrementally.

* What's up with Hal Legania, will he ever be a factor?

* God I hope we can keep the red-shirt off of Ekpe.

* When will Joey Searcy be ready to join the team?

 

[Unregistered User]

You need to "trust in coach kill" my friend! Coach kill has a plan to stop the run--he has plans for everything! In fact, he is the only BCS level coach out there with a plan of any type whatsoever!

I really don't understand why people here think that you're a total cockhole.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

As other posters have said, the key is Hageman. If he can be dominant (I realize that's a big IF), it shouldn't be nearly as much of a problem. If he plays like he has shown flashes of, he will need to at least be double teamed.

Botticelli needs to continue to improve. I liked him more last year than other people.

However, other than that, I think your concerns are valid. This is the area of the game that concerns me the most (even more than our passing game). I never thought that Rallis was an overly physical OLB and now he is in the middle. I like Cooper, but I think he's better in space than he is in the box. We don't have Royston now, and he was our best tackler last season and he made a lot of plays in the run game. Our DE are young and talented but they aren't huge and they are more focused on the passing game (by design). In fact, I think our best two players against the run last season were Royston and Tinsley, and they are both gone.

There are a lot of "ifs" in a scenario that involves us having a lot of success running the football (if Rallis has a real good year, if Rallis stays healthy, if HAgeman is healthy/consistent, if Botticelli improves, if Wells/Vereen step up and tackle as well as Royston).

 

[To Be Named Later]

Will it work against Wisconsin when it's 3rd & 2?

That's a solid question, and the answer is probably no. That being said, if Wisconsin has you at 3rd & 2, they have you right where they want you. They key to beating Wisconsin is avoiding short yardage situations. If they only need 2 yards, they will get it against pretty much everyone.

The goal of every defense is to make the offense predictable. If you get them to an obvious passing situation, you stand a good chance of stopping them.

 

[Redbird]

Every time I check the roster I see Hageman listed as a defensive end. He is not listed as a tackle, and not generically listed as a D linemen like some of the others. That doesn't sound like someone who will be playing in the middle, it sounds like someone who will line up at end which means Botticelli, Johnson, Jacques and Legania are going to be the key people stopping the run at least at the initial point of attack. Perhaps I am paying too close attention to the roster, but I think its interesting that when it is updated from time to time, Hageman always shows up at D end...

 

[Killjoy]

As other posters have said, the key is Hageman. If he can be dominant (I realize that's a big IF), it shouldn't be nearly as much of a problem. If he plays like he has shown flashes of, he will need to at least be double teamed.

Botticelli needs to continue to improve. I liked him more last year than other people.

However, other than that, I think your concerns are valid. This is the area of the game that concerns me the most (even more than our passing game). I never thought that Rallis was an overly physical OLB and now he is in the middle. I like Cooper, but I think he's better in space than he is in the box. We don't have Royston now, and he was our best tackler last season and he made a lot of plays in the run game. Our DE are young and talented but they aren't huge and they are more focused on the passing game (by design). In fact, I think our best two players against the run last season were Royston and Tinsley, and they are both gone.

There are a lot of "ifs" in a scenario that involves us having a lot of success running the football (if Rallis has a real good year, if Rallis stays healthy, if HAgeman is healthy/consistent, if Botticelli improves, if Wells/Vereen step up and tackle as well as Royston).

Bob - I have to say that you are the most consistent even keeled poster on this blog. When others are going off on some tangent you attempt to bring the conversation back to a real football discussion. Not only that, you actually add insight to the conversation with well thought out analyses and perspectives. Thank you!

 

[Breakin' The Plane]

You need to "trust in coach kill" my friend! Coach kill has a plan to stop the run--he has plans for everything! In fact, he is the only BCS level coach out there with a plan of any type whatsoever!

He had a plan for beating Iowa for the second year in a row with a bad football team. Do you buy your drugs from the same guy as Greg Garmon? Or do you get a volume discount from DJK?

 

[corcoran1]

Bob - I have to say that you are the most consistent even keeled poster on this blog. When others are going off on some tangent you attempt to bring the conversation back to a real football discussion. Not only that, you actually add insight to the conversation with well thought out analyses and perspectives. Thank you!

I agree with this post, and I agree with Bob's analysis of the dline issues. Roland Johnson being a good player is really important; especially in short yardage I think he would have a big advantage over Botticelli who is tall and lean. I was hoping some of the other guys would mature, but other than Jacques who may have the ability to play quick and low, I don't think many of them actually fit the system. I am hoping they do not have to play Ekpe, since he is a young freshman, but I am afraid they will have to play him.

 

[Costa Rican Gopher]

The goal of every defense is to make the offense predictable. If you get them to an obvious passing situation, you stand a good chance of stopping them.

That's the frustrating part about playing Wisconsin, they're completely predictable. Knock you on your ass 10-12 plays in a row for big rushing gains until you pull your safeties up, then play action-pass for a TD. All too predictable.

In general I just think the idea of smaller, more mobile D linemen works at a certain level, but I'm not sure it will against power-B1G teams. Fingers crossed, we'll see.

 

[Costa Rican Gopher]

Every time I check the roster I see Hageman listed as a defensive end. He is not listed as a tackle, and not generically listed as a D linemen like some of the others. That doesn't sound like someone who will be playing in the middle, it sounds like someone who will line up at end which means Botticelli, Johnson, Jacques and Legania are going to be the key people stopping the run at least at the initial point of attack. Perhaps I am paying too close attention to the roster, but I think its interesting that when it is updated from time to time, Hageman always shows up at D end...

I'll dance naked in the beer gardens if Shede lines up as anything other than DT on opening day.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

Every time I check the roster I see Hageman listed as a defensive end. He is not listed as a tackle, and not generically listed as a D linemen like some of the others. That doesn't sound like someone who will be playing in the middle, it sounds like someone who will line up at end which means Botticelli, Johnson, Jacques and Legania are going to be the key people stopping the run at least at the initial point of attack. Perhaps I am paying too close attention to the roster, but I think its interesting that when it is updated from time to time, Hageman always shows up at D end...

I'm not trying to be a jerk, but he is a DT. I guess you'll just have to take our word for it. If you watched him play, he hasn't lined up on the outside for a couple years. The roster is wrong (unless there has been a completely unexepected and idiotic move of moving him back outside).

 

[Killjoy]

I'll dance naked in the beer gardens if Shede lines up as anything other than DT on opening day.

If you do dpodoll will just use that as proof that the beer garden was a bad idea. I also expect everybody there at the time will also say dpodoll was correct.

 

[oak_street1981]

That's a solid question, and the answer is probably no. That being said, if Wisconsin has you at 3rd & 2, they have you right where they want you. They key to beating Wisconsin is avoiding short yardage situations. If they only need 2 yards, they will get it against pretty much everyone.

The goal of every defense is to make the offense predictable. If you get them to an obvious passing situation, you stand a good chance of stopping them.

Well, we can hope that Wisconsin lines up in a spread/ shotgun formation and runs a failed finesse play like they against TCU in the 2011 Rose Bowl instead of pounding the ball like they did to get back into the game. That was a real Dunbar like call and I like it when the B10 wins the Rose Bowl even if it is BB and Wisconsin, so I about threw the remote at the TV after that call.

 

[Badger2010]

That's the frustrating part about playing Wisconsin, they're completely predictable. Knock you on your ass 10-12 plays in a row for big rushing gains until you pull your safeties up, then play action-pass for a TD. All too predictable.

In general I just think the idea of smaller, more mobile D linemen works at a certain level, but I'm not sure it will against power-B1G teams. Fingers crossed, we'll see.

That's a significant over simplification of the Wisconsin offense IMO. You don't have a QB throw for over 3,000 yards and 30 TD's in a season by only throwing the ball once the safeties start playing up. Wisconsin's offense is about as balanced as you will find in the country.

Back to the original topic and how it will affect the game against Wisconsin. There is a method for undersized defenses to beat Wisconsin's offense, and that is to consistently run blitz and force the ball carrier to move laterally. TCU did it a couple years back in the Rose Bowl; they blitzed and dove at the legs of our tackles so that our lineman couldn't pull effectively, and in doing so they neutralized our O-lines size advantage and forced the backs to move laterally where the speed of the linebackers gave their defense an advantage. If you let Wisconsin's line go straight ahead and for the guards/center to pull, you've already lost the battle.

That being said, TCU's defense was top 5 in the country that year, and I don't know if the Gophers have the personnel to run the same scheme that TCU did. The Gopher's defense last year was pretty horrible, and there would need to be a pretty sizable upgrade in team speed along the back seven for the Gophers to run a similar defense effectively. That being said, you guys do have some nice pieces to work with and build around. I've loved Keanon Cooper since he was a recruit out of Skyline, and Hageman has the potential to be a beast. Will be interesting to watch for sure.

 

[gophervet]

That's a significant over simplification of the Wisconsin offense IMO. You don't have a QB throw for over 3,000 yards and 30 TD's in a season by only throwing the ball once the safeties start playing up. Wisconsin's offense is about as balanced as you will find in the country.

Back to the original topic and how it will affect the game against Wisconsin. There is a method for undersized defenses to beat Wisconsin's offense, and that is to consistently run blitz and force the ball carrier to move laterally. TCU did it a couple years back in the Rose Bowl; they blitzed and dove at the legs of our tackles so that our lineman couldn't pull effectively, and in doing so they neutralized our O-lines size advantage and forced the backs to move laterally where the speed of the linebackers gave their defense an advantage. If you let Wisconsin's line go straight ahead and for the guards/center to pull, you've already lost the battle.

That being said, TCU's defense was top 5 in the country that year, and I don't know if the Gophers have the personnel to run the same scheme that TCU did. The Gopher's defense last year was pretty horrible, and there would need to be a pretty sizable upgrade in team speed along the back seven for the Gophers to run a similar defense effectively. That being said, you guys do have some nice pieces to work with and build around. I've loved Keanon Cooper since he was a recruit out of Skyline, and Hageman has the potential to be a beast. Will be interesting to watch for sure.

Glad you said that because I have been thinking the same thing. Our defense does have some nice pieces, but we just do not have enough yet. In my opinion, Keenon Cooper is capable of having a huge year. He fits the scheme perfectly due to how athletic he is. I think Stoudemire will have a huge year. I was so unbelievably impressed with him playing corner in 2010 that I truly think he can be All B10 and will play on Sundays. Hageman and Cockran have been discussed a ton due to their abilities, but both need to show something ('Shede consistency and Cockran- well anything he is a RSFr). Perry and Amafeaula (sp) showed some nice abilities in their freshman year so hope they grew up some. I really like Rallis, even though he gets hated on a lot, and I think he will be solid in the middle as long as he can get his pass drops down. I think he is a lot stronger than we give him credit for. I hope the Juco's are as good as advertised as well because we need secondary help. Essentially, I think we have a lot of talented pieces and I look for us to be a middle of the pack defense this year. I am excited to see their growth, because I think we see marked improvement.

 

[husker70]

Mr. Hageman played the 3 techique in both the Iowa and Illinois games. He was unstoppable in the Illinois game and a factor against Iowa. The three being lined up between the center and guard. The run stop begins there.. With Hageman at the three, the 5 lines up over the tackle. Hageman has the strength, and quickness to play inside. He has shown the abilty to beat a double team. I like Legania at the 5. To stop the run think of Dyron Russ, John Schlecht, Shawn Hoffman and Tryone Carter.

I think we have the front covered, its the middle linebacker and strong safety who need to measure up.

 

[To Be Named Later]

Mr. Hageman played the 3 techique in both the Iowa and Illinois games. He was unstoppable in the Illinois game and a factor against Iowa. The three being lined up between the center and guard.

The 1 technique works in the A gap as you have described. Most coaches call each shade of the center the 1 technique and the inside shade of the guard the 2i. The 3 technique is the outside shade of the guard.

 

[Dr.Don]

I'll dance naked in the beer gardens if Shede lines up as anything other than DT on opening day.

Now that would not be a pretty sight.

 

[Deleted_User]

That last run stop was brought to you by Immodium AD the quicker stopper.