Rodney Williams receives a 17 on his latest ACT

BleedGopher

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per this tid-bit from Myron (buried at the bottom):

I spent my Friday night and a chunk of my Saturday at the Sabes Invitational at Bloomington Jefferson high. It was a great event with some of the top high school players in the country competing against each other. Division I coaches weren’t allowed to attend but they made sure that some of their unofficial reps were there.The Gophers are interested in numerous players from the class of 2010 who participated in the event. They’ll have just three scholarships to use on this class. Here’s my take on some of the guys that they’re after:

Group 1: Do anything legal to get him here

1. Harrison Barnes (6-6, 205 pounds, small forward, Ames, Iowa) - Yes. He’s that good. I don’t know about No. 1 junior in America good, but he’s definitely going to make any of the 12 schools he’s considering much better. Good thing for Minnesota, he’s listed the Gophers as a finalist. I watched Barnes’ All Iowa Attack Red squad Friday and Saturday. The first thing I noticed was the way he handled the ball. He has enough finesse to be trusted to bring the ball up the floor and run the offense. He’s explosive in the paint, and he showed off good range. He had to play in the post for his small AAU squad, but he still managed to carry it on both ends of the floor. Down the stretch in a Friday night thriller between the All Iowa Attack and the Illinois Warriors, Barnes handled the ball in the closing seconds of the overtime loss for his team. A Warriors defender ran toward him and Barnes instinctively went behind his back to avoid him. The elusive move was effortless. It’s those flashes of brilliance that justify all of the hype.

2. Ricky Kreklow (6-5, 185 pounds, shooting guard, Columbia, Mo.) - It was easy to see why the Gophers like Kreklow. In the opening minutes of his KC Pump ‘N Run team’s game against SYF Players, I thought he was a post player because of how aggressive he was on the boards and the way he blocked shots. But soon, it was apparent that he was a very talented wing player when his shooting touch kicked in. Kreklow called Minnesota one of two finalists, behind Missouri. He visited Minnesota before playing in the Sabes tourney and said he loved the “nostalgia” of the Barn. Kreklow, who has family in the metro area, would give the Gophers a big shooting guard that could become their Jon Diebler (Ohio State).

3. Alex Kirk (6-11, 230 pounds, center, Los Alamos, N.M) - Kirk is very long, but he moves well for someone his size. He had a huge tournament at Sabes and earned all-tourney team honors. The times I watched him, I was surprised by how agile he was for a big man. Also, he can step back and knock down a 16-footer. He has more than a dozen offers on the table. Minnesota is interested in him, and I understand why. He can definitely play at this level.

Group 2: I’d like to see some more tape on him before I commit to anything

1. Jacob Thomas (6-3, 170 pounds, shooting guard, Columbia Heights, Minn.) - In the end, I think Thomas will suit up for the Gophers, if he qualifies. But I know they have questions about his academics and ability. Lawrence Westbrook is undersized, too, but people don’t realize that he’s probably, pound-for-pound, the strongest guy in the Big Ten. Thomas is a good shooter, but he’s small for a Division I shooting guard. He’s good, but I think he’d be better off playing for a different program that would give him more minutes. At the Sabes Invitational, he earned all-tourney team honors after a series of solid performances. When he gets hot, he’s deadly. But he has to develop more off-the-dribble moves and become a more aggressive defender.

2. Trevor Releford (5-11, 170 pounds, point guard, Shawnee Mission, Kan.) - If the Gophers sign Releford, I can just see Tubby Smith getting off of his stool and berating Releford for some ill-advised drive to the lane at least once per game. But I can also envision Smith praising Releford for an improbable clutch shot. The KC Pump ‘N Run point guard looked good both times I saw him over the weekend. He can get wild at times, but he more than makes up for it with his ability to will his way to the basket and get buckets. He’s small for that position but his older brother and current Kansas guard, Travis, is 6-4, so there’s a chance that he’ll grow a few inches. If he does, he’s going to blow up this summer.

Group 3: He’s probably better off playing elsewhere

1. Chad Calcaterra (6-10, 210 pounds, center, Cloquet, Minn.) - There’s been a lot of recent chatter that suggests Calcaterra and the Gophers are both rethinking their initial interest in each other. But, Calcaterra does have an offer from his home state’s only Division I basketball program. At Sabes, he struggled at times. I questioned why someone his size wasn’t tougher around the basket, although I was impressed by his defensive aggression. I think the Gophers and Calcaterra will eventually join forces, but I’m not sure it’s a good fit for either team. I think he’d be better off in another system.

Group 4: I hope he gets a shot somewhere

1. Brandon Peters (6-1, 185 pounds, shooting guard, Houston, Texas) - He’s not very big, he hasn’t earned any stars from rivals.com and there’s a pair of freshmen on his Houston Hoops squad that get more attention than he does, but Peters does it all. He had a huge dunk Saturday morning, when he caught an alley-oop and flushed with it with two hands against the Illinois Warriors. Peters helped lead his team to the 17U finals Sunday in the Sabes invite with his good defense, solid shooting and explosive finishes at/above the rim. I hope he just landed on some school’s radar because he could be a very good undersized talent for a DI program.

2. Antonio Johnson (6-3, 200-plus pounds, Chicago, Ill., senior) - Here’s my theory. I think Tubby Smith should call Tim Brewster and men’s track and field coach Steve Plasencia. They should all take a trip to Chicago to watch Johnson. Before I tell you why, let me tell you a brief story. On Friday night, I saw a man fly for the first time. In a big game against Harrison Barnes’ All Iowa Attack squad, Johnson came out of nowhere to catch a shot off the rim and dunk it home. On the following play, he did it again, except this time his nose was above the rim. Don’t believe me? There were other witnesses. Johnson is one of the most athletic human beings I’ve ever seen. He’s built like a free safety, he’s versatile enough to play on the wing for a DI program and I’m pretty sure he would excel in track and field, considering his leaping ability and the fact that his calves look like they swallowed small mammals. I’m not sure where he’ll end up, but the Whitney Young product has a shot to have a great collegiate career in about five sports if he wants it. Right now, few schools have shown interest in Johnson. That should change.

-Trevor Mbakwe attended the weekend’s Sabes tourney. But for some reason, he wore a Marquette sweatshirt. Mbakwe, who is expected to be Minnesota’s starting power forward next season, told me that he intends to enroll at the U next month. He also said that the Gophers will probably play in the Howard Pulley pro-am again this summer. For now, Mbakwe is competing in a league in Minneapolis called Brother’s Keeper every Saturday.

-Rodney Williams told me Saturday that he received a 17 on his latest ACT try. Williams, a senior at Robbinsdale Cooper and Gophers signee, said he expects to be eligible to compete next season as long as he finishes strong academically.

http://blogs2.startribune.com/blogs.../?location_refer=Homepage:PromoScroller:Blogs

Go Gophers!!
 

Thanks, Bleed. I hope Rodney is eligible. Does anyone know what he needs to do to be eligible?
 

I believe score an 18, and make sure his grades are in order for this spring semester.
 

Overall, I give credit to Myron. He went out and got some good info and I appreciate reading about some of the kids that he watched at the tourney. So, kudos.

But, why does Myron think Jacob Thomas is undersized? Thomas is a current JUNIOR in high school and is 6-3, 170 (although some say he's closer to 180). That is almost perfect size right now for a Big Ten shooting guard. Remember, he's got another 18 months to continue to grow. By the time he's enrolled in college someplace, heck, he could be 6-4, 185 or 190. That doesn't make him undersized at all. Here are the Big Ten starting shooting guards from this past season:

Illinois - Chester Frazier (6-2, 195)
Indiana - Deven Dumas (6-2, 188)
Iowa - Anthony Tucker (6-4, 190)
Michigan - Manny Harris (6-5, 185)
Michigan State - Travis Walton (6-2, 190)
Minnesota - Lawrence Westbrook (6-0, 200)
Northwestern - Craig Moore (6-3, 185)
Ohio State - Jon Diebler (6-6, 205)
Penn State - Stanley Pringle (6-1, 180)
Purdue - Keaton Grant (6-4, 207)
Wisconson - Jason Bohannon (6-2, 190)

What makes Myron think he's undersized? Here's a kid who is currently 6-3 (as a junior in high school) and is approaching 180 pounds right now. Seems he'd fit right in. But, I'm no expert, so maybe someone can jump in and tell me why Myron feels this way.

Also, the kid from Chicago he talks about is Antonio Jones (not Johnson). Scout.com says he is headed to JUCO to get his grades up.

And, talk about "burying the lead" -- that is super news on Rodney.
 

I thought 17 was the magic number. Maybe why he was willing to give it up for publication..
 


I thought 17 was the magic number. Maybe why he was willing to give it up for publication..

It is the magic number, but his grades also need to be at a certain point combined with this score I believe.

I think at least a 2.5 with this minimum ACT score.
 

Stanley Pringle

Wow, doesn't 6'1" seem a bit generous for Stanley? He seemed like the smallest guy on the court for all the games he played. Super quick though and fun to see him light up Wisconsin at Kohl Center this year.
 

When I was applying to schools in 2004, 18 was the magic number. I assume they would raise it before lowering it. The U wanted scores of 25+ too. That was for a non-athlete though...
 

I had more than one friend in high school (2003) that scored 17 on their ACTs and they got into colleges just fine. However, none were up to the academic standard of Minnesota.
 



When I was applying to schools in 2004, 18 was the magic number. I assume they would raise it before lowering it. The U wanted scores of 25+ too. That was for a non-athlete though...

I believe 17 is the minimum standard set by the NCAA clearinghouse.
 


When we speak of a certain number that Rodney Williams (or any athlete) needs to score to attain NCAA eligibility, it's not as simple as scoring 17 or 18. It's combining a student's GPA in their core classes (English, Math, Science, Social Studies) with their subset scores in either the ACT or SAT. What the subset score means for the ACT is the combined scores in English, Math, Reading, and Science.

For instance, a student with a 2.5 core GPA in their high school courses needs a combined subset score of 68 on the ACT. An ACT of 68 averages out to 17 in each of the subsection tests. However, a student can use their best score from the subsection from each test they take. As an example, a student takes the ACT twice and during the first test scores 20 in English, 14 in Math, 18 in Reading, and 12 in Science; during the second test, that student scores 18 in English, 17 in Math, 18 in Reading, and 15 in Science, the scores that would be used to determine eligibility are the 20 in English, 17 in Math, 18 in Reading, and 15 in Science. If I had a student who had a Division I or II scholarship as a possibility but struggled mightily with academics and/or standardized tests, I would advise that student to plan on taking the test four times and concentrating on a separate subject area each time they took the test. While it's unusual for an overall ACT to move beyond 1 or 2 points with each subsequent testing, the changes within subsection scores can be quite dramatic from test to test.

This being said, a student cannot have a core GPA fall below 2.000 or an ACT with a subscore less than 37 (an average of 9.25). The ACT minimum isn't usually an issue, but the 2.000 core GPA can be, but that also depends on the high school and what courses are approved by the NCAA as core classes and how lenient/difficult a grader the teacher may be.

The point of my long post is that there's more to the ACT than just hitting a certain overall number. (if you're interested in the details, they start on page 4 of the booklet, or page 6 according to Adobe Reader on this attachment)

http://www.ncaapublications.com/Uploads/PDF/2008-09 CBSA9c29e699-00f6-48ba-98a9-6456c9b98957.pdf
 

"I believe 17 is the minimum standard set by the NCAA clearinghouse."

If that were true, there would be a lot less guys playing D-I football/basketball. I'd venture to guess every single major-college football program has, at minimum, several guys with that score and lower. And I think that's being generous. At the tail end of qualifying NCAA athletes, we're not talking about the cream of the crop in the classroom. Qualifying is a bare-minimum proposition.

It's safe to say guys/gals that didn't qualify or just barely made it aren't really college material in the first place, and/or they have some semblance of brains but simply chose to coast through high school. Probably more the former than the latter. There are always going to be talented recruits on the low end of academia who are on campus for one reason and one reason only. ... to help a coach win games. The coach knows it, the kid knows it. If somehow those guys/gals end up graduating, that's just an unexpected bonus for the coach and the institution.
 



Thanks Cool Hand. Great info on how NCAA looks at and considers scores by segments. I'm starting to learn more about the ACT as my daughter just took it for the first time. Kind of strange, but she had the exact same score on all 4 segments, which I'm told is very rare (not that any of you care, lol)
 

I had more than one friend in high school (2003) that scored 17 on their ACTs and they got into colleges just fine. However, none were up to the academic standard of Minnesota.

How does someone with a 17 on the ACT survive at the U. People that are much better prepared struggle in their freshman year.
 

How does someone with a 17 on the ACT survive at the U. People that are much better prepared struggle in their freshman year.

Athletes - by and large - get more academic support and guidance than any students on campus. Progress is monitored, study halls are mandatory, tutoring is available, etc., to every student athlete at the U.
 

I don't think that's as big a deal as many believe. Look at Al Nolen, he had NUMEROUS reports of academic shortfalls in HS, but once he got to the U, has done just fine by all accounts. I think for some of these kids, its getting them into a new environment in which they can thrive academically. Hopefully, for Rodney it will be the same way.
 

ACT Scores

I really don't mean this the wrong way at all, but it is very easy to hit a score of 17 on the ACT for the vast majority of students who graduate from HS. You just have to wonder sometimes if some of these athletes should be in college. I wish Rodney every good fortune, but it really does make you question what we are doing at times. As long as many people see the value and reputation of a higher education institution through the lens of athletic teams, this will be the way things are done.
 

I really don't mean this the wrong way at all, but it is very easy to hit a score of 17 on the ACT for the vast majority of students who graduate from HS. You just have to wonder sometimes if some of these athletes should be in college. I wish Rodney every good fortune, but it really does make you question what we are doing at times. As long as many people see the value and reputation of a higher education institution through the lens of athletic teams, this will be the way things are done.

Athletic scholarship. He is not going to school to become a scientist. I think this is where far too many people get mixed up.

Musicians get scholarships, students good at math, students good at english, etc etc. Everyone excels in their own areas. And at the same time all of these students can fail out of school for many of the same reasons an athlete can. Don't go to class, don't do homework, drugs, alcohol, etc etc. But the NCAA and for the most part the general public has decided it is not ok for student athletes to fail. I have personally heard many stories and witnessed many times very smart kids fail right out of college or at the very least lose a scholarship.

Also these athletes get zero credit for playing basketball. No grades... no credits.. nothing. Math scholars, biology scholars, music scholars, etc all do. Regardless of how much time these athletes put in making BIG money for the school. Probably more money than most scholars bring back.

So, you ask the question what are we doing? We are trying to recruit the very best athletes and make money. BUT because the NCAA has put in certain academic standards, we are at the same time trying to reach some minimum academic goals with these student athletes.

I am firm believer if a student athlete at the U of MN uses the vast resources given to him, he will be just fine.

But I think these borderline students get too much negative press. Because generally they will excel at what they do best.
 

I really don't mean this the wrong way at all, but it is very easy to hit a score of 17 on the ACT for the vast majority of students who graduate from HS. You just have to wonder sometimes if some of these athletes should be in college. I wish Rodney every good fortune, but it really does make you question what we are doing at times. As long as many people see the value and reputation of a higher education institution through the lens of athletic teams, this will be the way things are done.

Cause this is different from when? Do you think in the 50's kids that would have never, ever gone to college in a million years went to only play football or basketball? If you don't I think you're fooling yourself.
 

You can't predict future scholastic success based oh high school that is for sure. If he can get beyond the first couple of semesters there is no reason he won't succeed. It is the first couple that are going to be the toughest. I wish him the best of luck though.
 

anti,

I hope you aren't equating academic excellence with athletic prowess. The first is a university's primary mission. The second is an after-thought. When a math major graduates without the ability to dunk a basketball, it's no big deal. When a jock graduates without the ability to read and write (and they often do), it's criminal.
 

anti,

I hope you aren't equating academic excellence with athletic prowess. The first is a university's primary mission. The second is an after-thought. When a math major graduates without the ability to dunk a basketball, it's no big deal. When a jock graduates without the ability to read and write (and they often do), it's criminal.

They often do? Really? What's the definition of often? 1 in 10? 1 in 100? 1 in 1000?
 

They often do? Really? What's the definition of often? 1 in 10? 1 in 100? 1 in 1000?

Jessup you forget that G4L lives in Oklahoma where the defition of often in this sense is probably 1 in 5. The rest of the civilized and educated world understand how rare it is.
 

When a math major graduates without the ability to dunk a basketball, it's no big deal.

Easy for you to say. When all my non-math major friends could dunk a basketball, and all I could dunk was a tennis ball, the abuse was never-ending. :D


Now the only thing I can dunk is donuts.
 

anti,

I hope you aren't equating academic excellence with athletic prowess. The first is a university's primary mission. The second is an after-thought. When a math major graduates without the ability to dunk a basketball, it's no big deal. When a jock graduates without the ability to read and write (and they often do), it's criminal.

Without cheating, no one is going to get a 17 on the ACT. So unless you are saying his highschool and the ACT and the U of MN are all going (or already have) to allow(ed) him to cheat... you win.

Plus... None of these student athletes are generally being recruited for their academic background. I am sorry. We all know it. When you go to the U of MN you better be one hell of an athlete. Especially in Football, Basketball, and Hockey. You might want to even through in Wrestling. There is big money on the line. Why do you think we have all our arena's? Academic challenges?

Sports is the biggest PR tool this University has... Period.
 

anti, I'm going to assume you meant to say that without cheating, no one who doesn't know how to read or write will score a 17 on the ACT without cheating. I agree with you. While 17 is below average, it doesn't indicate a total lack of ability. In fact, working in a suburban school district with students who have pretty solid resources behind them, I've had several score 17 or thereabouts on the ACT. It doesn't indicate they're a bad or lazy student (some were quite good in the classroom), but it did indicate they struggled on the standardized test. Now, unless they possessed the athletic prowess of Rodney Williams, there's no way they were getting into the "U" straight out of high school, but as you pointed out Williams is there on his most highly developed ability, his athletic skills. I've had students who scored in Rodney's range head off to college who I was pretty confident they'd be able to handle the course work, knowing what I did about them as students in the classroom and the limitations of standardized tests. With the academic support that is in place, Rodney Williams could have success in college beyond the basketball court, but it'll be on his shoulders to take advantage of his opportunities.
 

Is this the test where if you sign your name correctly you get 10 points? I have never heard of it, but a 17 sounds very low, if it's on a scale of 1-100.
 

Is this the test where if you sign your name correctly you get 10 points? I have never heard of it, but a 17 sounds very low, if it's on a scale of 1-100.
You've seriously never heard of the ACT? Wow. There have really been 2 tests to take for entry into college the past 15 years, the ACT and SAT.

The ACT is out of 36 possible points.
 

anti, I'm going to assume you meant to say that without cheating, no one who doesn't know how to read or write will score a 17 on the ACT without cheating. I agree with you. While 17 is below average, it doesn't indicate a total lack of ability. In fact, working in a suburban school district with students who have pretty solid resources behind them, I've had several score 17 or thereabouts on the ACT. It doesn't indicate they're a bad or lazy student (some were quite good in the classroom), but it did indicate they struggled on the standardized test. Now, unless they possessed the athletic prowess of Rodney Williams, there's no way they were getting into the "U" straight out of high school, but as you pointed out Williams is there on his most highly developed ability, his athletic skills. I've had students who scored in Rodney's range head off to college who I was pretty confident they'd be able to handle the course work, knowing what I did about them as students in the classroom and the limitations of standardized tests. With the academic support that is in place, Rodney Williams could have success in college beyond the basketball court, but it'll be on his shoulders to take advantage of his opportunities.

I had a friend in HS that worked harder than anyone I knew in school. He never got a 3.0 and I think he got about a 17 on his ACT. But I know if I had his work ethic, I would have been a 4.0 with a 30+ ACT. I can't explain it, but not everyone is great at school.

Anyways he got through college the same way he got through highschool and I am pretty sure in the real world he is still working hard and making more than me.

That is life.
 




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