Reusse: "You could make a case that Smith has a tougher task than Kill at the moment"


Kentucky was 25-4 with first-year coach Tubby Smith in 1998 and was getting ready to play a February game. The coach's weekly radio show was underway and a caller offered this assurance:

"I ain't givin' up on you yet, Coach."

Kentucky won 10 in a row after that confidence boost from an old-line fan and captured the national championship.

Nine years later, the Wildcats had declined substantially, and Smith got out while there was still time, hiring himself as the new coach at Minnesota.

This was the equivalent of Bill Belichick leaving the New England Patriots to take on the rebuilding of the Saskatchewan Roughriders, but most of us didn't pause to take a hard look at the situation.

Hey, Tubby had his chance to the lead the No. 1 program in the history of college basketball for a decade, and he now was looking at a new challenge -- to lead a team with antiquated facilities that had settled comfortably into the nether reaches of the Big Ten standings.

There was the Gophers' conference championship and journey to the Final Four in 1997, both later vacated, and the team followed with these Big Ten finishes over the next decade: eighth, sixth, 10th, ninth, sixth, tied for sixth, tied for 10th, tied for fourth, 10th and ninth.

It was the résumé comparable to Northwestern, and that hasn't changed with Tubby: finishes of sixth, tied for seventh, sixth, ninth and tied for ninth.

We spend much time lamenting the condition of Gophers football, yet if you go back to 1997 there isn't a dime's worth of difference in Minnesota's two major programs.

These are the football finishes over the past 15 seasons: tied for ninth, tied for seventh, tied for fourth, tied for fifth, tied for 10th, seventh, tied for fourth, seventh, seventh, tied for sixth, 11th, tied for sixth, eighth, tied for ninth and, with two divisions in 2011, tied for 10th overall.

The football Gophers have three first-division finishes and five finishes of ninth or worse since the fall of 1997.

The basketball Gophers have one first-division finish and seven finishes of ninth or worse since the bittersweet journey to the 1997 Final Four.

To summarize: Over the past 30 seasons (15 apiece in football and basketball), the best Big Ten finish for a Minnesota team has been a tie for fourth.

It has to be facilities. It has to be the commitment from the administration. It has to be tough admissions standards.

Except: There is that new football stadium, which was the result of the prior administration using much of its political and fundraising clout to make it happen, and there have been as many athletes with substandard ACT scores admitted and kept eligible as you will find anywhere in the Big Ten.

The athletic programs around the country, Minnesota included, now have this great gambit of getting lads to be declared "learning disabled," and all it takes then is a modest show of interest from the athlete.

We are deluded here in Gopher Nation, in this opinion: that Tubby Smith came into a basketball program with a much stronger foundation than did Jerry Kill in football.

Go back to '97 and the vacated glory ... that's basically a generation, and one that has watched the Gophers stink equally in football and men's basketball.

You could make a case that Smith has a tougher task than Kill at the moment, since Tubby is working out of a dilapidated Barn and, only a couple of hundred yards away, Country Jer has that shiny new stadium to sell.

The other side of it is that three difference-makers who stay together can create a basketball foundation. Tubby's 33 percent of the way there with freshman Andre Hollins.

TubbyBall has been a large disappointment ... no doubt. He has to change something; maybe a key change on the staff, as Don Lucia did last summer to help put the pizzazz back in his hockey program.

Smith also has to bring the same fire in January and February that we see for a few hours in March at the Big Ten tournament. Mostly, he has to find an incredible competitor -- maybe a little-known guard from a JUCO in Nebraska -- to come in and own the last five minutes, rather than cower at them.

If I were to call Tubby's radio show to say, "I ain't givin' up on you yet, Coach," it would include a disclaimer, "... but I'm dang close."

Patrick Reusse can be heard noon-4 weekdays on 1500-AM. • [email protected]

Go Gophers!!

pat's 2 cents
 

What is this 'We' crap? Reusse certainly can't actually be serious that he considers himself to be part of Gopher Nation, or that he is, like one of us, "lamenting the condition of Gophers football." Most of the time, he is content to stomp all over it with cheap shots and low blows.

That said, for once, I might actually agree with the overall theme of the column. And also (for once), the tone isn't completely venomous. So I guess I should be glad for that.
 

Patti is no where close to being part of the Gopher Nation. Patti is his own island and a big one at that. Just ignore him.
 

What a horsesh!t article.

Wow. What a shock, Patty throws out some recent history of two big programs without offering any reasons or solutions.

And what the "F" is with that statement "The athletic programs around the country, Minnesota included, now have this great gambit of getting lads to be declared "learning disabled," and all it takes then is a modest show of interest from the athlete." Link? Source?

Go chug a bag-full of dicks, Fat Pat.
 


Some snark in the article, but it's difficult to disagree with the conclusion. Tubby's forgotten more about coaching basketball in the last five minutes than I could learn in five decades, but the program, while not in a shambles, appears to be somewhat in disarray. He's had some bad luck, but I can't figure out his recruiting for the life of me.
 

The jobs for both are damn near impossible, so I don't see the point in quibbling over semantics. He does, however, effectively smash the ill-held delusion among many Minnesota fans that there is some legacy of greatness for the basketball team. I do have to give him credit for that.
 

The jobs for both are damn near impossible, so I don't see the point in quibbling over semantics. He does, however, effectively smash the ill-held delusion among many Minnesota fans that there is some legacy of greatness for the basketball team. I do have to give him credit for that.

I agree 100% with you on this. There is no legacy with the BB team. Even making the tourney now is almost as easy as going to a bowl game (I know not really, but not like it was 25+ years ago).

Many MN fans think there is a reason MN should be winning in BB...but really there is not
 




I feel like it's always easier in basketball.
It's definitely easier for the Big Ten in basketball. Do well in non-conference and don't suck in conference and you're likely to at least be on the bubble.
 

zambam said:
It's definitely easier for the Big Ten in basketball. Do well in non-conference and don't suck in conference and you're likely to at least be on the bubble.

You can make a bowl game with 2-3 conference wins in the Big Ten.
 

You can make a bowl game with 2-3 conference wins in the Big Ten.

You can also make the NCAA's and do well in the conference with 2-3 good basketball players. Turning around a basketball program can be done with 1 or 2 good recruiting classes, and you can also get at least half of your talent from within the state. You can't do that in football.

If the Gophers BB team's top three players (playing and healthy of course) this year are Mbakwe, Royce White and Rodney Williams, they make the NCAA's easily.

As a B1G school, making the NCAA basketball tourney is theoretically easier than making a bowl game. But of course, its all theoretical, as most schools have some sort of bias one way or the other. How hard is it for tOSU to make a bowl game? By their standards, they were terrible this year, and they played on New Years Day.
 

You can also make the NCAA's and do well in the conference with 2-3 good basketball players. Turning around a basketball program can be done with 1 or 2 good recruiting classes, and you can also get at least half of your talent from within the state. You can't do that in football.

If the Gophers BB team's top three players (playing and healthy of course) this year are Mbakwe, Royce White and Rodney Williams, they make the NCAA's easily.

As a B1G school, making the NCAA basketball tourney is theoretically easier than making a bowl game. But of course, its all theoretical, as most schools have some sort of bias one way or the other. How hard is it for tOSU to make a bowl game? By their standards, they were terrible this year, and they played on New Years Day.

Totally agree. Turning around a BB program can be done in one year with 2-3 players. FB it takes at least a dozen better players.
 



Some snark in the article, but it's difficult to disagree with the conclusion. Tubby's forgotten more about coaching basketball in the last five minutes than I could learn in five decades, but the program, while not in a shambles, appears to be somewhat in disarray. He's had some bad luck, but I can't figure out his recruiting for the life of me.

With 11 letterman returning it should all make sense next year. The very talented sophomore to be class will take us dancing the next 3 years.
 

The jobs for both are damn near impossible, so I don't see the point in quibbling over semantics. He does, however, effectively smash the ill-held delusion among many Minnesota fans that there is some legacy of greatness for the basketball team. I do have to give him credit for that.

You got it there. Considering that Minnesota has one of the longest running basketball programs in the nation...we...have...SUCKED. Massively.

116 years of college basketball. 11...yes 11 invitations to the NCAA tournament. 4 of those appearances stripped.

9 conference titles, only three after 1937. Three in 75 seasons, and one stripped.

Our crowning achievements:

Stripped banners and records
Season Banner/Record
1993–94 NCAA Tournament 2nd round
1994–95 NCAA Tournament 1st round
1995–96 NIT 2nd round
1996–97 NCAA Final Four
1996–97 Big Ten MVP Bobby Jackson
1996–97 Big Ten Defensive POY: Bobby Jackson
1997–98 NIT Champions
1998–99 NCAA Tournament 1st round

What a program. Shameful.
 


You got it there. Considering that Minnesota has one of the longest running basketball programs in the nation...we...have...SUCKED. Massively.

116 years of college basketball. 11...yes 11 invitations to the NCAA tournament. 4 of those appearances stripped.

9 conference titles, only three after 1937. Three in 75 seasons, and one stripped.

Our crowning achievements:

Stripped banners and records
Season Banner/Record
1993–94 NCAA Tournament 2nd round
1994–95 NCAA Tournament 1st round
1995–96 NIT 2nd round
1996–97 NCAA Final Four
1996–97 Big Ten MVP Bobby Jackson
1996–97 Big Ten Defensive POY: Bobby Jackson
1997–98 NIT Champions
1998–99 NCAA Tournament 1st round

What a program. Shameful.

It's true that we don't have a lot of banners in Williams Arena. But I always thought there was one significant difference between the football team's version of mediocrity and the basketball team's, as recently as the 1990s, when Williams Arena was THE sports venue in the Twin Cities. That is this: no matter who we were playing, if you were at the Barn during certain times in the 1970s, 1980s or 1990s, you thought we would win. Even during Clem's run of .500 Big Ten seasons, if we were playing Duke or Kentucky in a non-conference game, the fans (and players) had the attitude of "we dare you to come in here." I have only felt that way for one week in my lifetime (Michigan week 2003) as a Gopher football fan.

Look at the 70s -- only one Big Ten title, but very competitive the rest of the way (ruined by scandal, of course), third place or better in the conference four additional times. And in the 80s -- another Big Ten title. Fans had a reason to buy tickets and expect that maybe, just maybe, this was the year. 1990s -- Sweet 16, Elite 8, Final Four and unbeatable at home. It was a blast to be at Williams Arena. If all you're looking at is banners, sure, it's been dry. But some of us know what this program has been and can be.

It has now been more than a decade since Gopher basketball fans have had that expectation of success. It's no longer fun in the Barn. It was much different from Gopher football over three decades. It's not anymore.
 

Except the 1990s no longer count. They have been stripped and obliterated. Therefore, there has never been, in 116 years, a "golden era" of Gopher basketball. Never. You could say we've only been able to win when we cheated. Now, that's really "golden". Yikes.
 

Some snark in the article, but it's difficult to disagree with the conclusion. Tubby's forgotten more about coaching basketball in the last five minutes than I could learn in five decades, but the program, while not in a shambles, appears to be somewhat in disarray. He's had some bad luck, but I can't figure out his recruiting for the life of me.

I think his recruiting has been fine, except for the few spring recruits he's signed. We probably could have held onto a scholarship or two for the following year (Ingram, Maverick) after transfers.
 

Some snark in the article, but it's difficult to disagree with the conclusion. Tubby's forgotten more about coaching basketball in the last five minutes than I could learn in five decades, but the program, while not in a shambles, appears to be somewhat in disarray. He's had some bad luck, but I can't figure out his recruiting for the life of me.

Really his recruiting has been pretty solid. The thing that has caused problems is how he has managed those players. I'm not saying the transfers are all of his fault, but there's something fishy about all of it. Think of a team of Mbakwe, White, Williams, Joseph, Hollins/Cobbs. That's one helluva team right there. Tubby just can't handle players with ego's, he want's a balance of scoring. He won't let anyone take the reigns. He needs to change his offense and let the players play. It's not his recruiting. He had to fill in transfers with Ingram and Mav. It's not easy to recruit so late in the recruiting period.
 

I think his recruiting has been fine, except for the few spring recruits he's signed. We probably could have held onto a scholarship or two for the following year (Ingram, Maverick) after transfers.

Really his recruiting has been pretty solid. The thing that has caused problems is how he has managed those players. I'm not saying the transfers are all of his fault, but there's something fishy about all of it. Think of a team of Mbakwe, White, Williams, Joseph, Hollins/Cobbs. That's one helluva team right there. Tubby just can't handle players with ego's, he want's a balance of scoring. He won't let anyone take the reigns. He needs to change his offense and let the players play. It's not his recruiting. He had to fill in transfers with Ingram and Mav. It's not easy to recruit so late in the recruiting period.

If he 1) can't manage the players he recruits, and 2) they can't play in his system, and 3) they leave...he's a crappy recruiter.
 

If he 1) can't manage the players he recruits, and 2) they can't play in his system, and 3) they leave...he's a crappy recruiter.

That's coaching, not recruiting. He recruited those guys to this school, his coaching/system/personality, whatever it was, led them to transfer. That's not his recruiting at all.
 


That's coaching, not recruiting. He recruited those guys to this school, his coaching/system/personality, whatever it was, led them to transfer. That's not his recruiting at all.

You're kiddiing, right? Recruiting is 100% getting players that fit into your system and that are coachable and perform in that system. 100%. What Smith has done as a recruiter and a coach is pathetic.
 

You're kiddiing, right? Recruiting is 100% getting players that fit into your system and that are coachable and perform in that system. 100%. What Smith has done as a recruiter and a coach is pathetic.

I agree that recruiting includes selecting the players who will make your program successful (considering talent, fit, style of play, coach-ability, attitude, etc.) as well as closing the deal with those players. Having said that, I don't really care whether we attribute the lost players to player selection or player management (or for that matter whether or not we want to label player selection as recruiting or something else). Either way, its a problem that is hurting this program and needs to be solved.
 

highwayman said:
You're kiddiing, right? Recruiting is 100% getting players that fit into your system and that are coachable and perform in that system. 100%. What Smith has done as a recruiter and a coach is pathetic.

100% wrong. Recruiting is your ability to recruit. It's a pretty simple concept. You get kids to choose you over another school. Scouting and player development are separate things.

Tubby has gotten some nice talent into Minnesota. Attrition and injuries have been the biggest problems.
 

100% wrong. Recruiting is your ability to recruit. It's a pretty simple concept. You get kids to choose you over another school. Scouting and player development are separate things.

Tubby has gotten some nice talent into Minnesota. Attrition and injuries have been the biggest problems.

Exactly what I was trying to get at. Thank you.
 

100% wrong. Recruiting is your ability to recruit. It's a pretty simple concept. You get kids to choose you over another school. Scouting and player development are separate things.

Tubby has gotten some nice talent into Minnesota. Attrition and injuries have been the biggest problems.

So on that measure if Tubby recruited all of the McDonald's All American forwards every year but no guards, he'd be the best recruiter in the country even though we wouldn't have a single guard???

Recruiting is about getting talent that will play for you and produce wins. That means evaluating their skills, their style of play, their personality, etc. And recruiting the right mix of players.

Recruiting players that don't fit your system or won't take direction or are trouble waiting to happen isn't good recruiting no matter how many stars or highly ranked a player is.
 

So on that measure if Tubby recruited all of the McDonald's All American forwards every year but no guards, he'd be the best recruiter in the country even though we wouldn't have a single guard???

Recruiting is about getting talent that will play for you and produce wins. That means evaluating their skills, their style of play, their personality, etc. And recruiting the right mix of players.

Recruiting players that don't fit your system or won't take direction or are trouble waiting to happen isn't good recruiting no matter how many stars or highly ranked a player is.

Being a good recruiter isn't about stars or rankings, I get that. But we don't even know specifically why these transfers happened. He has had solid groups of kids come into this program. They obviously fit his system because a coach isn't going to recruit someone that doesn't fit their system. Recruiting isn't just a short simple process of whether a player is talented enough. If you look at the players tubby has brought into this program, you'd say he's a solid recruiter. It's his coaching style or personality or just bad luck or whatever it is that has led to dissappointments.
 

That's coaching, not recruiting. He recruited those guys to this school, his coaching/system/personality, whatever it was, led them to transfer. That's not his recruiting at all.

No, it is crappy recruiting. You recruit to fit players. If he could not do that while recruiting personally, he sucks at recruiting. He apparently does not know how to have a conversation that reveals how a player wants to play in reality, and not just selling dreams. Pumping a kid full of sunshine wears off the moment reality sets in, like the first day of practice.

But, if you idiots, yes you are idiots, think that it is okay to bring a kid in and then have to fill that scholarship again the next year, that means you have to work that much HARDER on finding that additional good player. Don't pay for the same real estate twice. Pay once and pay at the correct price.
 




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