Reusse: Unlike the Gophers’ coaching situation, the solution for Williams Arena is simple: Blow up The Barn

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Ope3 said:
Yes, the Gophers Athletic Department would have a reduced percentage of concession revenue. Parking actually goes to the University as a whole, not the Athletic Department, but that's besides the point.

On the other hand they wouldn't have spend the necessary tens or hundred(s) of millions of bucks to play in a new or drastically remodeled on campus facility.

If the trade off makes financial sense it's a good idea, and vice versa. Depends on tenant agreement.
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No, it *is* the point. These peripheral income streams for the U are what gets cut off. This is part of the economic impact the Athletic Department has on the U as a whole.

Tenant agreements are never structured for the benefit of the tenant. No landlord in their right mind would do that because it is not a long term strategy for their success.
 

Ewert86PC said:
No, it *is* the point. These peripheral income streams for the U are what gets cut off. This is part of the economic impact the Athletic Department has on the U as a whole.

Tenant agreements are never structured for the benefit of the tenant. No landlord in their right mind would do that because it is not a long term strategy for their success.
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Because that parking money doesn't go to the Athletic Budget, speaking solely as a Gopher Basketball Fan, I don't care about it. That was my point.
 

MNfootballfan said:
I was at the Moody Center this winter for a game. It was a fine place to watch basketball but don't be confused... it isn't a basketball arena. It was funded by mostly by Live Nation in exchange for keeping the income from non-UT events like concerts, rodeos, etc for the next 35 years.

The entire upper deck was covered when I was there. Think the Twins upper deck at the Metrodome but with modern technology. The coverings had video, stats, additional scoreboards, etc. It looked sharp.

I am not sure the Moody Center is a fair comparison on how to build a new stadium. Basketball is just one of the activities held there.
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Not just a basketball arena, sounds like an admirable pragmatic aspect.

If the sightlines, amenities, atmosphere and revenue streams make sense for the Basketball program then that seems like a totally fair comparison (wherever it's built).

For an arena assuming to be funded by the T-Wolves for more than 40+ dates a year, I would expect some differences compared to the Moody Center.
 
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Ewert86PC said:
No, it *is* the point. These peripheral income streams for the U are what gets cut off. This is part of the economic impact the Athletic Department has on the U as a whole.

Tenant agreements are never structured for the benefit of the tenant. No landlord in their right mind would do that because it is not a long term strategy for their success.
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Normally yes. But I could see the Wolves giving the U favorable terms for good PR and to curry favor for the necessary property tax exemptions etc.
 

howeda7 said:
Normally yes. But I could see the Wolves giving the U favorable terms for good PR and to curry favor for the necessary property tax exemptions etc.
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That's going to last 5, maybe 10, years. It's not a strategy for long term success for Gopher BB.
 


Ewert86PC said:
That's going to last 5, maybe 10, years. It's not a strategy for long term success for Gopher BB.
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I don't favor it either, but I would secure 20-30 year terms if that's the path they go down.
 

tjgopher said:
The cost is more expensive to gut and remodel than to tear down and build an entirely new arena.

We don't need the 100-year old roof and walls.

Build a new one.

For those citing Hinkle Field House remodel as the way to do it. I completely disagree. Been in that building 4 or 5 times for games since they did the re-do, and was quite unimpressed. It looks like a 100-year old building that they re-did to make look like a 50-year old building. Plastic, cheap looking seats with very little to no premium seating areas. The "charm" of the old place no longer exists. I thought it looked weird. It almost looked they "dropped" a temporary plastic seating structure into this beautiful old building.

A new building on campus with around 9-10k seats would sell out for a few years in the honeymoon period. That's when they have to make hay.
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Converting the old joke about divorce, do you know why remodeling is so expensive? Because it's worth it.
 

howeda7 said:
I don't favor it either, but I would secure 20-30 year terms if that's the path they go down.
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Even if the contract is for 20-30, you know that there will be talk about getting out of it 5-10 years after it is signed.
 

disco said:
To be fair, practice facilities/athlete's villages, were a major component in recruiting. But everything changed with legalizing pay-to-play (aka NIL). At the time the push was going on to build it, I don't think most people would have expected college sports to change so drastically.
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Fine, but then you agree that building a new arena will do little to nothing to improve the program in the NIL era, correct?
 



On Wednesday, Barreiro and Gaardsy spent the whole first hour talking about Williams Arena
 



Ope3 said:
The "zero sense" part is highly debatable. Completely depends on the rent agreement, revenue possibilities and what if anything the University would have to contribute towards such a facility.



For a sporting event, no. Closest I have been to that situation is a few concerts at Xcel in which they cut the arena in half, with the stage being more at center ice. Not really relevant for this.

If it's just putting a curtain up in the upper deck, then yeah that would suck and probably would not suit the Men's basketball program.

However, the Moody Center in Austin, TX looks like a more forward thinking transformation and solution with adjustable seats and a movable ceiling.


Looks fantastic.
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The Moody Center is a college arena...you are comparing apples to oranges. Austin doesn't have an NBA team.

If you want to build a Moody Center great...that won't work long term for the Wolves. Moody is built for college crowds and concerts that is why it works. The Rockets and Spurs play their sparingly and it is like when the Vikes played at TCF.

And trust me, arenas suck with roped off sections all tarped up. Ask anyone who went to The Rose Bowl for the Gopher UCLA game last year. The atmosphere was pretty awful. (It didn't help that their production is a joke)
 
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howeda7 said:
If the Wolves owners pay for the majority of the arena, they will end up in Eagan as part of ZiggyVille.
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And it will be a Wolves arena first and foremost. The Gophers will be AT BEST second class citizens. Screw that I would rather keep Williams with no upgrades than play that game. Football did that...
 

howeda7 said:
I don't favor it either, but I would secure 20-30 year terms if that's the path they go down.
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And if you think an NBA franchise with zero ties to the U of M is going to give favorable terms to the school i have a bridge on Hennepin Ave to sell you...heck I will throw in the Stone Arch Bridge if you just pay the shipping!

They will maximize profit...at best we can hope they don't charge us rent. We will have second class locker rooms, second class access, second class revenue streams...etc. It won't be "The Home of the Gophers".

That move will set Gopher Basketball back further than Ben Johnson has.
 

Dave H said:
And if you think an NBA franchise with zero ties to the U of M is going to give favorable terms to the school i have a bridge on Hennepin Ave to sell you...heck I will throw in the Stone Arch Bridge if you just pay the shipping!

They will maximize profit...at best we can hope they don't charge us rent. We will have second class locker rooms, second class access, second class revenue streams...etc. It won't be "The Home of the Gophers".

That move will set Gopher Basketball back further than Ben Johnson has.
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To be clear, I don't want the Gophers to share an arena with the Wolves. And the only reason they might give the U favorable terms is to make whatever taxpayer funds /tax breaks they are requesting more palatable.
 

Dave H said:
The Moody Center is a college arena...you are comparing apples to oranges. Austin doesn't have an NBA team.

If you want to build a Moody Center great...that won't work long term for the Wolves. Moody is built for college crowds and concerts that is why it works. The Rockets and Spurs play their sparingly and it is like when the Vikes played at TCF.

And trust me, arenas suck with roped off sections all tapped up. Ask anyone who went to The Rose Bowl for the Gopher UCLA game last year. The atmosphere was pretty awful. (It didn't help that their production is a joke)
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I have said previously if it's just putting a tarp or curtain up that won't cut it. That's a non-starter in my opinion.

Using what the Moody Center does with a moveable ceiling and panels (with LED lights)!to make it seem less spacious as well as enhance the acoustics, could certainly translate to an arena built for NBA standards, but adaptable for what would suit the Gophers.

It would certainly cost more than the $375 Million pricetag. Perhaps double.
 



Ope3 said:
Because that parking money doesn't go to the Athletic Budget, speaking solely as a Gopher Basketball Fan, I don't care about it. That was my point.
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And *that* is why academics and administrators get their undies in a bunch over athletics. If the Athletic Department provides other economic benefits for the then it is an actual contributor to the university.
 

Ewert86PC said:
And *that* is why academics and administrators get their undies in a bunch over athletics. If the Athletic Department provides other economic benefits for the then it is an actual contributor to the university.
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Parking revenue continues to dwindle as fans stay away from the Barn in droves.
 

Ope3 said:
Parking revenue continues to dwindle as fans stay away from the Barn in droves.
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Attendance will be resurgent with the change of a coach, and be maintained at a higher level with a winning team.

You're talking like current trend won't change and want to give up because of that.
 

Ope3 said:
Parking revenue continues to dwindle as fans stay away from the Barn in droves.
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That would change with a new arena at least for a few years.

And you know...if the team improves.
 


The problem with building new or renovating the old is that the return on investment still ends up as a negative for the Athletic Department. The best and most secure ROI is found in hiring an excellent coach who brings hope and wins back to the program. A new venue won't attract people (look at the failed Metrodome for football attempt) and leaving the U for a rebuild certainly eliminates all parking revenue. The best ROI is in a new and accomplished coach. It's the cheapest investment with the greatest return of revenue.
People can pine for a new venue, but until a competitive team laces them up and wins, the new arena talk is a pipe dream.
 

FinnGopher said:
The problem with building new or renovating the old is that the return on investment still ends up as a negative for the Athletic Department. The best and most secure ROI is found in hiring an excellent coach who brings hope and wins back to the program. A new venue won't attract people (look at the failed Metrodome for football attempt) and leaving the U for a rebuild certainly eliminates all parking revenue. The best ROI is in a new and accomplished coach. It's the cheapest investment with the greatest return of revenue.
People can pine for a new venue, but until a competitive team laces them up and wins, the new arena talk is a pipe dream.
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Attendance did increase when the Gophers moved to the HHH Dome, when looking at what they were averaging in the last 10 years at Memorial Stadium.

gophersports.com

All-Time Attendance Records - University of Minnesota Athletics

Memorial Stadium Attendance Capacity: 52,809 / 56,652 (1970-81) Year Att. Gm. Largest Crowd Avg. 1924 139,772 6 Illinois (35,341) 23,297 1925 193,707 7 Notre...
gophersports.com gophersports.com
 

Moving off campus would be a disaster. Why would we replay what we did with football? And, it would impact student attendance even more because we are talking 15-20 games a year, weeknights, etc. vs 6-7 Saturdays. Also, why are we talking less than 10k seats. We have consistently been near or above 11k until the last four years with Ben. Why so shortsighted? Have a view beyond the past couple of years
 

Ope3 said:
Not just a basketball arena, sounds like an admirable pragmatic aspect.

If the sightlines, amenities, atmosphere and revenue streams make sense for the Basketball program then that seems like a totally fair comparison (wherever it's built).

For an arena assuming to be funded by the T-Wolves for more than 40+ dates a year, I would expect some differences compared to the Moody Center.
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True, multi-use would be a positive, but the culture of Austin, Texas is different than Minneapolis. Not in a good way or bad way. They have a strong music culture - South x Southwest, 6th Street is a poor man's Broadway, Rainey Street District, etc. Austin now hosts the Country Music Awards at the Moody Center. Not saying a new Gopher arena couldn't do the same, just that I don't see Live Nation coming to the U of M and offering the same deal.
 

howeda7 said:
Nah. It would kill student attendance. They need to make student tickets free. But if you don't show up more than twice, you lose them.
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Not free. I think there has to be a buy in. The price would be really low though. As I’ve mentioned prior, I would move the student section behind the benches like they do at MSU.
 

Tucker32 said:
Moving off campus would be a disaster. Why would we replay what we did with football? And, it would impact student attendance even more because we are talking 15-20 games a year, weeknights, etc. vs 6-7 Saturdays. Also, why are we talking less than 10k seats. We have consistently been near or above 11k until the last four years with Ben. Why so shortsighted? Have a view beyond the past couple of years
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There have been substantial changes in the last 5 years with regards to College Basketball and attendance of live events in general that go well beyond the Gophers on court success.

- Cost
- NIL
- Portal
- Bigger better TVs
- Conference Realignment/Expansion

Those are big ones. Revenue sharing is looming.

I just don't honestly see the demand for anything really beyond the 10k range or 12k tops.

What exactly is the NCAA Basketball landscape going to look like in 5 to 10 years? Will the NCAA even be around? Will it be replaced by something else or greatly modified?
 

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