Reusse on Fleck's recruiting: "His recruiting is OK so far."

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btowngopher said:
Then 9 wins is just Okay too. 42 teams won 9 games or more in 2016. We aren't comparing the 9 win season to other gopher seasons.
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Since the NCAA moved to 12 game regular seasons, we have had less than 9 wins every season except 1.

So once in 21 years.

Yep, that's just an okay season.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
Since the NCAA moved to 12 game regular seasons, we have had less than 9 wins every season except 1.

So once in 21 years.

Yep, that's just an okay season.
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To me this is coaching, not recruiting.
 

#2Gopher said:
To me this is coaching, not recruiting.
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Coaching and recruiting go hand in glove. There are great coaches at lower levels who would never win here because they couldn't recruit the top athletes needed to win at the D1 FBS level.
You can't really separate one from the other.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
Since the NCAA moved to 12 game regular seasons, we have had less than 9 wins every season except 1.

So once in 21 years.

Yep, that's just an okay season.
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+1. Laid it out in post #38...
 

MennoSota said:
Coaching and recruiting go hand in glove. There are great coaches at lower levels who would never win here because they couldn't recruit the top athletes needed to win at the D1 FBS level.
You can't really separate one from the other.
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True. However with good coaching, the recruiting gets better every year. If you don't have good coaching, you're not going to reach the recruits. So what is it, the Egg before the Chicken or the Chicken before the egg?
 




You guys seem to have missed my point. Being ranked 42 in recruiting is better than ok when you compare it to past gopher classes. But Spoofin was saying it doesn't matter what other gopher classes finished. So why are we comparing the 9 win season to other gopher seasons?
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
Since the NCAA moved to 12 game regular seasons, we have had less than 9 wins every season except 1.

So once in 21 years.

Yep, that's just an okay season.
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So you'd have to be talking about 2003 right?
 




Goldteam said:
We won 9, but that season doesn't stand out to me.

Who was the big win that year?

Who was the big win a couple of years ago?
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Both years the bowl game was the biggest win. In 2003 we went 5-3 in conference but the 5 wins came against the 5 worst teams.
 

Some guy said:
The 9 wins is really impressive

Of all of the gophers average seasons post 1967 it was one of the top 5 most above average. No question.
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At what point in the 2016 season did you say "Hey, this season is really impressive?"

It wasn't wins over Oregon St, Indiana, St.
It had to be somewhere winning at Maryland, Illinois, or home vs Purdue.
Beating Northwest who was 5-5 at the time doesn't seem really impressive, but maybe that's all you need.

Seems like most people who consider 2016 impressive just really liked our short-handed bowl win against Washington State.
 

Goldteam said:
We won 9, but that season doesn't stand out to me.

Who was the big win that year?

Who was the big win a couple of years ago?
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I wasn’t talking about any of that, just pointing out the inaccuracy of Bob’s post.

And Btowngopher is spot on. The people promoting the 2016 season as a great season because it rarely happens in Gopher football, then turn around and try to degrade two of the best Gopher recruiting classes in the recruiting rankings era are hypocrites.
 



On recruiting, here is the "real" issue as I see it.

Under Kill and Claeys, the recruiting rankings were lower, but the supporters of the coaching staff said they would "coach up" the players to play above their ranking. i.e. they recruited a 6-win level of talent, and coached them to win 8 games.

Then, Fleck was hired, and some people on here said Fleck would elevate the recruiting to a point where the Gophers would not be relying on "coaching up" lower-ranked players, because the better recruits would put the Gophers on an even playing field with other B1G teams.

At this point, I will stipulate that Fleck's recruiting classes are better, on paper. But the question is not whether the classes are better, the question is whether the classes are good enough to move the Gophers up the standings.

Instead, we are once again hearing that the ratings are not the key factor, because the coaches will "coach up" the players. Under the new argument, the Gophers are recruiting a 7- or 8-win level of talent, but they will coach them to win 9 or 10 games. It's the same argument that was used for Kill, only with a slightly higher level of predicted success.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
I wasn’t talking about any of that, just pointing out the inaccuracy of Bob’s post.

And Btowngopher is spot on. The people promoting the 2016 season as a great season because it rarely happens in Gopher football, then turn around and try to degrade two of the best Gopher recruiting classes in the recruiting rankings era are hypocrites.
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So our recruiting classes have been “great”? Really? 5th in the West is “great”? Yikes.


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btowngopher said:
You guys seem to have missed my point. Being ranked 42 in recruiting is better than ok when you compare it to past gopher classes. But Spoofin was saying it doesn't matter what other gopher classes finished. So why are we comparing the 9 win season to other gopher seasons?
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Been stated on here many times that Kill was bad at recruiting. Has PJ been better? Yes, obviously. That doesn’t mean it wasn’t just OK. To say 5th in the West is anything better than OK just cause the last coach was worse at recruiting is silly.


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Spoofin said:
So our recruiting classes have been “great”? Really? 5th in the West is “great”? Yikes.


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Was finishing 4th in the B1G west in 2016 "great"? Really? An average finish of 4.5 in the B1G West during the Kill/Claeys years is "great"? Yikes.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
Was finishing 4th in the B1G west in 2016 "great"? Really? An average finish of 4.5 in the B1G West during the Kill/Claeys years is "great"? Yikes.
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So you aren’t going to answer my question? Pretty much SOP for you.

BTW - who even said that 2nd part. Again, SOP for GWG. Transparent.


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Spoofin said:
So you aren’t going to answer my question? Pretty much SOP for you.

BTW - who even said that 2nd part. Again, SOP for GWG. Transparent.


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It's apparent you didn't read my post you quoted. SOP for Spoofin.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
It's apparent you didn't read my post you quoted. SOP for Spoofin.
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So you did answer my question? My bad - I thought you avoided it and then pivoted by implying I said something I never did. You have to admit that would have been pretty bush league if you had, right?


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Jeez people - still ignoring the real question.

Fleck's recruiting is better than the Kill/Claeys era. no one disputes that. BUT - is the current level of recruiting good enough for the Gophers to move up the ranks and become a contender in the B1G west?

It's like saying a $40,000 salary is better than a $30,000 salary. that is undisputed. But, the guy making $40,000 still can't afford to buy the same house as the guy making $75,000.

So, you have two choices - either learn to be happy with the house you've got - or figure out a way to make more money so you can get a better house. you can be happy you've moved up from a mobile home to a 1-story, 2BR house. but don't pretend it's equal to a 2-story, 4 BR house.

a recruiting class ranked at #42 is not going to have the Gophers playing for the B1G title. So, either learn to be happy with 7, 8, 9 wins a year until the end of time - or figure out a way to get that recruiting class into the top-25. that's it.
 

Spoofin said:
So you did answer my question? My bad - I thought you avoided it and then pivoted by implying I said something I never did. You have to admit that would have been pretty bush league if you had, right?


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Why would I need to answer your question when I was paraphrasing what other posters have said. I never said this recruiting class was great nor that the 2016 season was great.

You've concluded and agree with Ruesse that Fleck's recruiting is just 'ok' based on where it's ranked compared it our peers. Fair enough. So I would assume also you think the 2016 season was just 'ok', since it was ranked similarly to our peers (4th place in the west, 42 other teams won 9 games). Or do you think the 2016 season is better than 'ok'? If so, then in your own words you are trying to 'elevate that season to something it isn't''. It's pretty simple, and is what btown and other posters are getting at.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
Why would I need to answer your question when I was paraphrasing what other posters have said. I never said this recruiting class was great nor that the 2016 season was great.

You've concluded and agree with Ruesse that Fleck's recruiting is just 'ok' based on where it's ranked compared it our peers. Fair enough. So I would assume also you think the 2016 season was just 'ok', since it was ranked similarly to our peers (4th place in the west, 42 other teams won 9 games). Or do you think the 2016 season is better than 'ok'? If so, then in your own words you are trying to 'elevate that season to something it isn't''. It's pretty simple, and is what btown and other posters are getting at.
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Well, I think you are making some assumptions.

I would say the recruiting rankings thus far have been OK. Hard to dispute that. The actual recruiting may end up to be better or worse than OK - ask me in a few years. This may surprise you, but I don’t care a lick about Rankings. For obvious reasons that have been highlighted on here. So yes, in this case I agree with Pat.

On 2016.... I think the year was better than OK. Not great, but better than OK. IMO, that isn’t elevating it above what it was.


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short ornery norwegian said:
Jeez people - still ignoring the real question.

Fleck's recruiting is better than the Kill/Claeys era. no one disputes that. BUT - is the current level of recruiting good enough for the Gophers to move up the ranks and become a contender in the B1G west?

It's like saying a $40,000 salary is better than a $30,000 salary. that is undisputed. But, the guy making $40,000 still can't afford to buy the same house as the guy making $75,000.

So, you have two choices - either learn to be happy with the house you've got - or figure out a way to make more money so you can get a better house. you can be happy you've moved up from a mobile home to a 1-story, 2BR house. but don't pretend it's equal to a 2-story, 4 BR house.

a recruiting class ranked at #42 is not going to have the Gophers playing for the B1G title. So, either learn to be happy with 7, 8, 9 wins a year until the end of time - or figure out a way to get that recruiting class into the top-25. that's it.
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How many classes has Northwestern had in the top 40 since 2015? I'm pretty sure they played in the B1G Championship game last year. I expect Fleck's classes to get better over time, but I like our last two recruiting classes.
 

Spoofin said:
Well, I think you are making some assumptions.

I would say the recruiting rankings thus far have been OK. Hard to dispute that. The actual recruiting may end up to be better or worse than OK - ask me in a few years. This may surprise you, but I don’t care a lick about Rankings. For obvious reasons that have been highlighted on here. So yes, in this case I agree with Pat.

On 2016.... I think the year was better than OK. Not great, but better than OK. IMO, that isn’t elevating it above what it was.


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I didn't assume anything. So why was 2016 better than ok, and the recruiting rankings are not?
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
I didn't assume anything. So why was 2016 better than ok, and the recruiting rankings are not?
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Look -if you think everyone is going to come on here, bow to your superior logic, and join you in worshiping at the altar of Fleck, you are certifiable insane. It's not going to happen.

You can come on here until the end of time proclaiming Fleck's greatness, but in the end, it all comes down to the won and loss record.

PJ Fleck has been coach of the Gophers for two seasons. The Gophers won 5 games and 7 games in those seasons. that is his record.

Maybe 5 or 10 years from now, we will all be saluting Fleck for taking the program to new heights.

Or, maybe 5 or 10 years from now, we will be trying to figure out why Fleck could not take the program to new heights.

But each of us will make up his or her own mind about Fleck. you cannot force anyone to agree with you.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
Look -if you think everyone is going to come on here, bow to your superior logic, and join you in worshiping at the altar of Fleck, you are certifiable insane. It's not going to happen.

You can come on here until the end of time proclaiming Fleck's greatness, but in the end, it all comes down to the won and loss record.

PJ Fleck has been coach of the Gophers for two seasons. The Gophers won 5 games and 7 games in those seasons. that is his record.

Maybe 5 or 10 years from now, we will all be saluting Fleck for taking the program to new heights.

Or, maybe 5 or 10 years from now, we will be trying to figure out why Fleck could not take the program to new heights.

But each of us will make up his or her own mind about Fleck. you cannot force anyone to agree with you.
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Where have I ever worshiped Fleck? I've always been supportive of him and realistic about the state of the program when he took over. Yet that qualifies as 'worship' by the Claeysists on this site.

All I've been asking Spoofin and others is for a reason why these recruiting rankings are just 'ok' and why the 2016 season was more than 'ok'.

The logic on why the recruiting has just been 'ok' is because those posters are comparing them to other teams in the B1G and nationally. By those same standards, the 2016 season was just 'ok'.

But those same posters will promote the 2016 season as better than 'ok'. Why? Because it was a good season by Gopher standards. Fine. But these recruiting classes are also good by Gopher standards.

It's no surprise that the posters trying to have it both ways, downplaying the recruiting classes and promoting the 2016 season, have always been the biggest Claeys supporters. Cherry picking and trying to have it both ways is being a hypocrite.
 

Not everything has to be PJ vs Kill and/or Claeys. The sooner you realize this (it has been YEARS) the happier you will be.


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Spoofin said:
Not everything has to be PJ vs Kill and/or Claeys. The sooner you realize this (it has been YEARS) the happier you will be.
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Then answer my question on why the 2016 season was more than 'ok' and why the current class ranking is not?
 


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