Reusse: Is P.J. Fleck the answer to lift the Gophers out of mediocrity?

[GophersInIowa]

That’s fine to cherry pick seasons. It’s like when people don’t count 2020.

All the games count and you’re judged on your record. Just my opinion.

If fleck was 11-2 in his first year here and won the b10 west everyone here would reference it.

Since 2022 he’s .500 in B10.

Well of course people would reference that because that would be an incredible job and completely unexpected. Understanding there can be a transition year or two is hardly cherry picking IMO. Or certainly isn't to dismiss a season that was delayed, where games being cancelled was common and where some games involved 20-25 players sitting out. No coach should be judged for that (good or bad).

Your last stat is actual cherry picking. In such a short timeframe, one bad season can really effect that. How about since 2019, he's had only one full season below .500 in the Big Ten? He pretty consistently wins more than he loses against his peers (P4). IMO, that's better than mediocre.

 

[gopherbadgerman]

Well of course people would reference that because that would be an incredible job and completely unexpected. Understanding there can be a transition year or two is hardly cherry picking IMO. Or certainly isn't to dismiss a season that was delayed, where games being cancelled was common and where some games involved 20-25 players sitting out. No coach should be judged for that (good or bad).

Your last stat is actual cherry picking. In such a short timeframe, one bad season can really effect that. How about since 2019, he's had only one full season below .500 in the Big Ten? He pretty consistently wins more than he loses against his peers (P4). IMO, that's better than mediocre.

Well I offered up his entire tenure here as an example. You said more or less it should not count because its not a recent, then I offered the last 4 years as a recent history.

My point was people who have a total love for Fleck dismiss the poor seasons, but if in 2020 the Gophers went 5-2 none of those people would dismiss it.

Either way - I agree he is consistent, I like him a lot and am happy he is the coach here. I hope he stays here for another 8-10 years, I am satisfied with 7-9 wins a year, as I realize this program is not going to be world beaters. Hopefully he can catch lightning in a bottle once or twice over the next decade.

 

[MaxyJR1]

Full Student Section for all games.
92% capacity on average for the season
Year #9 and best win % in 75 years for Gopher coach
Undefeated in Bowls
11-2 season
Chance to have an overall winning conference record after 9 seasons

The work off the field and in the community is first class
Puts players into the NFL
May have helped developed a Hall of Fame Safety in Winfield Jr.
Near zero off field issues
Has embraced the new era of college football pretty seamlessly
Recruits the state well


Hasn't gotten over the hump in winning some of the most meaningful games.

 

[caliGopher]

I’m trying to think of a FBS or pro comp for PJFs reign of niceness

Narduzzi?

Tressel.

I've heard Fleck called the millennial Tressel on a number of occasions.

Tressel coached the same way, but had the best players in the conference to work with.

That approach worked well for PJ at Western Michigan, where he was the best recruiter in the conference and had resources that were competitive in the conference.

At Minnesota, Fleck has had more resources than any coach since 1961, He has brought stability to a similar trajectory as Mason and Kill. In total, those three have elevated the program over an extended period of time, building the core group of fans that have seen more wins than the generations before them, But is not the best recruiter and does not have the most resources and is not able to overcome those obstacles, so far, so poses no real threat to take a step forward and compete for the top of the conference consistently.

 

[Gopherchase]

We tried a Cignetti once. His name was Brewster. Didn't work that time, as I recall.

Completely apples and oranges.

 

[GophersInIowa]

Well I offered up his entire tenure here as an example. You said more or less it should not count because its not a recent, then I offered the last 4 years as a recent history.

My point was people who have a total love for Fleck dismiss the poor seasons, but if in 2020 the Gophers went 5-2 none of those people would dismiss it.

Either way - I agree he is consistent, I like him a lot and am happy he is the coach here. I hope he stays here for another 8-10 years, I am satisfied with 7-9 wins a year, as I realize this program is not going to be world beaters. Hopefully he can catch lightning in a bottle once or twice over the next decade.

I didn't really say that. Just meant what's happened more recently should mean more to the current status of the program. And I'm saying just looking at the overall BT record over x number of years doesn't always paint the whole picture. If during a 4 year stretch you're above average 3 out of 4 seasons, I would consider that an above average timeframe.

2023 was not a good year, no one is disputing that.

 

[SeaBee_Gopher]

Well I offered up his entire tenure here as an example. You said more or less it should not count because its not a recent, then I offered the last 4 years as a recent history.

My point was people who have a total love for Fleck dismiss the poor seasons, but if in 2020 the Gophers went 5-2 none of those people would dismiss it.

Either way - I agree he is consistent, I like him a lot and am happy he is the coach here. I hope he stays here for another 8-10 years, I am satisfied with 7-9 wins a year, as I realize this program is not going to be world beaters. Hopefully he can catch lightning in a bottle once or twice over the next decade.

Very well said. The evidence just does not support the U being much better than this. Their financial resources are lower than most other B1G schools. Whenever we get a good coordinator, someone buys them away from us.

We've been capturing most of the best Minnesota recruits recently and even some from Wisconsin. The problem is we don't have that many good recruits in this area. We have the top 2026 prospect in Wisconsin committed to the U and the guy is still a three star. Yikes! We aren't working with much from a recruiting or monetary standpoint when compared to the rest of the B1G.

We'll get better over time vs. non-P2 schools and G6 because we DO have more money than most of them, but not in the B1G. That's why I'm one of the few people on this site that want LESS B1G games, not more. I want to see us win more. Winning is fun! Let's play more ACC and Big 12 competition. Not so low that we'll kill them, but a better chance of success none-the-less. Plus, the variety would be fun.

I don't like the Cignetti comparison. He is obviously an amazing coach, but he also has a lot of money behind him that just isn't available here. One of the things we can sell with PJ is stability and a respectable program. That's one of the only ADVANTAGES I see that we have in the B1G. It's helped us recruit Wisconsin recently. We can only hope they continue to be a dumpster fire! It might help us recruit Iowa if Kirk retires soon and they don't hit a home run on his replacement. With firings seeming to be on the increase, this could be an even bigger advantage. Maybe PJ starts to tick up in wins a little more over time just as Iowa has over Kirk's time there. If not, we can always move in another direction. There will be high demand for this job. Being a mid-tier B1G program is now, more than ever, one of the best jobs in college football. I'm for staying the course for the time being. People think this program has more potential than it actually does within the B1G.

 

[Gopherchase]

Very well said. The evidence just does not support the U being much better than this. Their financial resources are lower than most other B1G schools. Whenever we get a good coordinator, someone buys them away from us.

We've been capturing most of the best Minnesota recruits recently and even some from Wisconsin. The problem is we don't have that many good recruits in this area. We have the top 2026 prospect in Wisconsin committed to the U and the guy is still a three star. Yikes! We aren't working with much from a recruiting or monetary standpoint when compared to the rest of the B1G.

We'll get better over time vs. non-P2 schools and G6 because we DO have more money than most of them, but not in the B1G. That's why I'm one of the few people on this site that want LESS B1G games, not more. I want to see us win more. Winning is fun! Let's play more ACC and Big 12 competition. Not so low that we'll kill them, but a better chance of success none-the-less. Plus, the variety would be fun.

I don't like the Cignetti comparison. He is obviously an amazing coach, but he also has a lot of money behind him that just isn't available here. One of the things we can sell with PJ is stability and a respectable program. That's one of the only ADVANTAGES I see that we have in the B1G. It's helped us recruit Wisconsin recently. We can only hope they continue to be a dumpster fire! It might help us recruit Iowa if Kirk retires soon and they don't hit a home run on his replacement. With firings seeming to be on the increase, this could be an even bigger advantage. Maybe PJ starts to tick up in wins a little more over time just as Iowa has over Kirk's time there. If not, we can always move in another direction. There will be high demand for this job. Being a mid-tier B1G program is now, more than ever, one of the best jobs in college football. I'm for staying the course for the time being. People think this program has more potential than it actually does within the B1G.

I’d be interested in hearing what the board thinks PJ would do with Indiana’s team?

 

[gopherbadgerman]

I didn't really say that. Just meant what's happened more recently should mean more to the current status of the program. And I'm saying just looking at the overall BT record over x number of years doesn't always paint the whole picture. If during a 4 year stretch you're above average 3 out of 4 seasons, I would consider that an above average timeframe.

2023 was not a good year, no one is disputing that.

Fair take and I am not taking anything away from that.

It just seemed to me that you were saying that the whole picture does not paint an accurate portrayal of the program, that the last four years don't, but that the last 6 do?

Regardless we can agree to mildly disagree. Both fans of the program and wish them the best, and we could very well be of different opinions on what being mediocre is. To me anywhere between 40-60% winning is fairly mediocre, above that is good, below that is bad.

 

[TwistingMyMelon]

I’d be interested in hearing what the board thinks PJ would do with Indiana’s team?

Why? Do you think the majority of people on this board are clueless when it comes to the relative successes of coaches? Cignetti's accomplishments at Indiana speak for themselves.

 

[TwistingMyMelon]

Fair take and I am not taking anything away from that.

It just seemed to me that you were saying that the whole picture does not paint an accurate portrayal of the program, that the last four years don't, but that the last 6 do?

Regardless we can agree to mildly disagree. Both fans of the program and wish them the best, and we could very well be of different opinions on what being mediocre is. To me anywhere between 40-60% winning is fairly mediocre, above that is good, below that is bad.

I think Fleck's teams over the last five years, with the exception of 2023, have been pretty elite on the defensive side of the ball.

Here are the national defensive rankings according to Sports Reference's Simple Rating System:

2021: #11
2022: #10
2023: #64
2024: #7
2025: #25

Unfortunately, Fleck has had only one good offensive team (2019) during his tenure here. That's the side of the ball where our recruiting disadvantages are most apparent. Fleck (and his coordinators) may have exacerbated the deficiencies by their notably cautious style of play.

 

[Some guy]

Well I offered up his entire tenure here as an example. You said more or less it should not count because its not a recent, then I offered the last 4 years as a recent history.

My point was people who have a total love for Fleck dismiss the poor seasons, but if in 2020 the Gophers went 5-2 none of those people would dismiss it.

Either way - I agree he is consistent, I like him a lot and am happy he is the coach here. I hope he stays here for another 8-10 years, I am satisfied with 7-9 wins a year, as I realize this program is not going to be world beaters. Hopefully he can catch lightning in a bottle once or twice over the next decade.

Disagree
If we had won a championship that year it would still be fun and I’d still claim it. But anyone using anything in 2020 to evaluate anyone is insane.
It was fake

Heck. If we won a championship in 2020 I would love it. I would claim it. I would credit fleck for it verbally. But I wouldn’t use it as an evaluative tool.

 

[gopherbadgerman]

F

Disagree
If we had won a championship that year it would still be fun and I’d still claim it. But anyone using anything in 2020 to evaluate anyone is insane.
It was fake

Heck. If we won a championship in 2020 I would love it. I would claim it. I would credit fleck for it verbally. But I wouldn’t use it as an evaluative tool.

Fair take. I’d agree it was a throw away season, but I’ll stick to my feeling that if MN had a great year it would not be nearly as discounted by fans.

 

[Some guy]

F

Fair take. I’d agree it was a throw away season, but I’ll stick to my feeling that if MN had a great year it would not be nearly as discounted by fans.

It wouldn’t be discounted at all!
But it wouldn’t be evaluative

To me that’s a big distinction
Indiana should love their season. They should love the season and love the coach that season. But it doesn’t mean anything about tom Allen as a coach 2016-2019 or 2021-present

 

[gopherbadgerman]

It wouldn’t be discounted at all!
But it wouldn’t be evaluative

To me that’s a big distinction
Indiana should love their season. They should love the season and love the coach that season. But it doesn’t mean anything about tom Allen as a coach 2016-2019 or 2021-present

Would you agree it’s generally discounted now? I agree with your distinction

 

[Some guy]

Would you agree it’s generally discounted now? I agree with your distinction

I don’t know.
I think across the country it’s discounted if you had a bad year and you still have same coach.
It’s not discounted if you had a great year and have the same coach.
If you have a new coach it’s discounted by fans


If the national champion was someone other than saban. It probably is discounted but since he already had a bunch no one questions it.

If it was James franklins one national title. The vast majority of fans would discount it but Penn state fans wouldn’t



My opinion is people can discount it or not discount it however their heart desires. I just wouldn’t use it to judge or prognosticate a coaches future success

 

[caliGopher]

Full Student Section for all games.
92% capacity on average for the season
Year #9 and best win % in 75 years for Gopher coach
Undefeated in Bowls
11-2 season
Chance to have an overall winning conference record after 9 seasons

The work off the field and in the community is first class
Puts players into the NFL
May have helped developed a Hall of Fame Safety in Winfield Jr.
Near zero off field issues
Has embraced the new era of college football pretty seamlessly
Recruits the state well


Hasn't gotten over the hump in winning some of the most meaningful games.

You left off one important stat:

Fleck has the highest winning percentage against ranked teams in the B1G in forever as well.

It's only 26%, but while he's played fewer ranked teams than Mason (9 fewer in 8.5 seasons vs. Mason's 10 years), he has won twice as many games against ranked opponents (6 vs. 3) and accounts for 40% of the wins against ranked teams in the B1G in the last 39 years.

 

[Gopherchase]

Why? Do you think the majority of people on this board are clueless when it comes to the relative successes of coaches? Cignetti's accomplishments at Indiana speak for themselves.

A lot of discussion about talent deficiencies here but ya gotta coach up the talent.