Reusse: If Pitino had taken Wright from Champlin Park & not “Jelly Fam,” he wouldn’t be getting fired.

[UpAndUnder43]

So not only would wright have saved Pitino's job, but also would have saved Archie Millers job as well? Who is this wright guy? Indiana Big Ten champs too? No chance!

I was joking.

 

[Cayman]

In the spring when his recruitment reopened I believe he would’ve gotten in. At that point their was Harris and Washington committed. He was still offered but they wanted him to redshirt or something if I remember correctly. The room was full. Of course Richard and staff made the wrong eval in hindsight, but as with everything else, it’s not like all just one persons fault. Truthfully, if Richard and STAFF had been better evaluators and the program was rolling, Wright may not have been offered anyways as there were some flaws/questions about if his game could translate to high major.

I don’t remember the exact timeline of events, but Archie Miller getting hired at Indiana, Wright decommitting from Dayton, Minnesota freeing up a 3rd 2017 scholarship, Wright committing to Colorado, and Matz Stockman taking the remaining scholarship at Minnesota all happened pretty close together. From what I recall from looking up the situation earlier, the time in the spring of 2017 during which Wright was uncommitted and Minnesota had a free scholarship was like a few days at most, if even that long. Plus Minnesota had been looking for bigs in that class so that freshman Oturu wouldn’t be thrown to the wolves after Lynch left, and ended up with Washington and Harris, so taking an experienced big man in Stockman with that open scholarship made sense.

 

[dlnavra]

The funny thing is that there are/were still people here bitching for a coaching change earlier this season regarding Boyle.

The couple things I'll say about CU is that as of late the Pac 12 is a far less challenging conference than the Big Ten and Colorado's non-conference schedules have generally been pretty lackluster.

That said, I think Boyle is definitely a solid tactical coach and he can obviously recruit some good talent (high school hoops in Colorado is nowhere near the level it is in Minnesota). I think they could make a run to the Sweet 16 this year, but they could also get mashed in the first game if they play a super physical team.

Agree pretty much. . CU does have some muscle though. They are not without the capability to play physical. As you and others said, Boyle's done a great job there. Pac 12 isn't as deep, but USC's gotten better (loaded w/ talent), UCLA playing a little more fundamentally sound w/ Mick Cronin, and Oregon's never going away with their great, maybe still underappreciated coach Altman. Arizona in a lot of trouble.

 

[tjgopher]

Sure, if they fixed their test scores to then qualify for the DI standard, as may be the case here with Wright. You'll need to cite specifics, to have a meaningful further discussion.

I will not cite specifics, but I can tell you that simply the base line NCAA admission requirements is not an automatic to get in to Minnesota, and a handful of other Big Ten schools. I've seen you mention a couple of times that the Gophers will get 'anyone' into school that meets the NCAA requirements. That is not always the case for a variety of often specific reasons.

In addition, sometimes administration/admissions will put a limit on the total number of kids allowed into school who meet minimum NCAA requirements, but not U of M requirements. In other words no way a coach would be allowed to fill his entire roster that way. Coaches certainly can and do ask for help and get it from admissions quite often. However, there are absolutely instances where other factors come into play and kid who meets NCAA guidelines isn't admitted to Minnesota. Those include what high school classes a kid took, what grades may have been in a specific class in high school, meeting other minimum requirements other than test or GPA, etc. Coaches sweat this out quite often.

There have been a few times a kid was 100% cleared by NCAA based on test and GPA, wanted to come to Minnesota, but couldn't get into school because of a deficient high school transcript, something like a kid didn't take a foreign language or enough math classes or flunked a class he needed credit for, etc. That kid ends up at Houston or Tulsa or FIU (or Nebraska )

 

[Some guy]

If we had wright, we would still have no depth and be running an NBA offense with mid tier big ten talent:

we would be 8-12 and he should still get fired

 

[Bad Gopher]

Richard just finished his regular-season career with a conference winning percentage of .360, narrowly avoiding the Hanson Line, which is .357. I'm glad for his sake that he won't be known for that ignominy, but he'll go down as one of the poorest performers in program history. The idea that one recruiting decision would have made a pass-fail difference in that career is preposterous.

 

[Plato]

It is nonsense to think one thing caused Pitino to fail, and failed he has.
The BIG conference record is evidence enough.
It was a combination of things which have been gone into in great detail on this board and the press.
MN AD at that time had many questionable to bad hires and too many extensions of contracts and then firings that led to large buyouts.
Pitino was untested but a bargain basement coach.
The real mystery is why he lasted as long as he did.

 

[upnorthkid]

If we had wright, we would still have no depth and be running an NBA offense with mid tier big ten talent:

we would be 8-12 and he should still get fired

I hope by this you just mean in theory, not execution because our offense has legitimately nothing to it

 

[builtbadgers]

I will not cite specifics, but I can tell you that simply the base line NCAA admission requirements is not an automatic to get in to Minnesota, and a handful of other Big Ten schools. I've seen you mention a couple of times that the Gophers will get 'anyone' into school that meets the NCAA requirements. That is not always the case for a variety of often specific reasons.

In addition, sometimes administration/admissions will put a limit on the total number of kids allowed into school who meet minimum NCAA requirements, but not U of M requirements. In other words no way a coach would be allowed to fill his entire roster that way. Coaches certainly can and do ask for help and get it from admissions quite often. However, there are absolutely instances where other factors come into play and kid who meets NCAA guidelines isn't admitted to Minnesota. Those include what high school classes a kid took, what grades may have been in a specific class in high school, meeting other minimum requirements other than test or GPA, etc. Coaches sweat this out quite often.

There have been a few times a kid was 100% cleared by NCAA based on test and GPA, wanted to come to Minnesota, but couldn't get into school because of a deficient high school transcript, something like a kid didn't take a foreign language or enough math classes or flunked a class he needed credit for, etc. That kid ends up at Houston or Tulsa or FIU (or Nebraska )

And we have taken kids that can not get in elsewhere. Several coaches i know would not even recruit a kid that has not covered all his bases academically. They simply do not want kids like that in their programs. Many programs do all they can to get kids in. Pretty pathetic as so many of these schools are not difficult to get into. Minnesota and UW actually have near 52% acceptance rates.

 

[upnorthkid]

It is nonsense to think one thing caused Pitino to fail, and failed he has.
The BIG conference record is evidence enough.
It was a combination of things which have been gone into in great detail on this board and the press.
MN AD at that time had many questionable to bad hires and too many extensions of contracts and then firings that led to large buyouts.
Pitino was untested but a bargain basement coach.
The real mystery is why he lasted as long as he did.

I think part of this is because of how his seasons were when lined up
13-14: run to win NIT, creates some good will
14-15: has flashes, but he just needs more time
15-16: injuries suspensions--> you're on thin ice
16-17: NCAA tournament, ok you've shown you seem to have some ability
17-18: god damnit this can't keep happening, you're on thin ice
18-19: NCAA tournament and a win; that's more like it
19-20: COVID saves
20-21: NCAA run or bust and we all know how that ends

He has one more of those bad seasons in 16-17 or 18-19 and he was gone then. COVID bought him one more year too. just my thoughts

 

[upnorthkid]

And we have taken kids that can not get in elsewhere. Several coaches i know would not even recruit a kid that has not covered all his bases academically. They simply do not want kids like that in their programs. Many programs do all they can to get kids in. Pretty pathetic as so many of these schools are not difficult to get into. Minnesota and UW actually have near 52% acceptance rates.

and it's in the 80s are UST. and 5% at Harvard. and 21% at Carleton. To act like the acceptance rate is the right barometer doesn't make any sense because it acts like all applicants are equal all across the board. Better statistics to look at would be where the students rank on average in their graduating class, their average standardized test scores, % valedictorians, etc. Then you're looking at are kids barely scraping by and getting in on average, or are you just getting people who realize they have what it takes to get in applying and not people who clearly realize they have no shot spamming you with applications instead of acting like we'd accept ~50% of kids who apply no matter what

 

[builtbadgers]

All true. Another reason coaches that i know decide they want actual college student athletes and target that in every character issue, background check, family etc. Saves a lot of grief.Like anything else it is about how you want to conduct yourself, how to build a culture that the University values, the culture. Winning matters but dignity matters more and to do both and be humble is rare. I would not want a kid that does not qualify to get into the school the school.

 

[Some guy]

I hope by this you just mean in theory, not execution because our offense has legitimately nothing to it

ISO ball

the nba isn’t that creative

 

[WriterGoph]

All true. Another reason coaches that i know decide they want actual college student athletes and target that in every character issue, background check, family etc. Saves a lot of grief.Like anything else it is about how you want to conduct yourself, how to build a culture that the University values, the culture. Winning matters but dignity matters more and to do both and be humble is rare. I would not want a kid that does not qualify to get into the school the school.

Is it hard looking down your nose at all of us with such lower standards than you??

Honestly, your tone and posts have gotten much more condescending and self-righteous the past few weeks. You had good basketball insights most of the season and it was nice to read. Now, everything reads like a constant lecture on how a "real program" is run and its really just beating a dead horse.

Nobody will ever be Tony Bennett...we get it.

 

[NWMetroGopherFan]

This take is so tiring, and it's Reusse taking his parting shot at Pitino.

Yeah, Wright was set to commit to the Gophers. And yeah, they told him not so fast because they really wanted Washington. If I remember it right, Washington visited campus the same weekend as Theo John, and John was basically all but ignored. Washington was a top-60 guy and committed, one of Pitino's highest ranked commits in his time here. You can't predict the future, we had no idea it wouldn't work out with Washington.

That said if you get Wright, a few other MN kids probably follow. We'll never know, and now Pitino has coached his last game at Williams Arena.

 

[builtbadgers]

Is it hard looking down your nose at all of us with such lower standards than you??

Honestly, your tone and posts have gotten much more condescending and self-righteous the past few weeks. You had good basketball insights most of the season and it was nice to read. Now, everything reads like a constant lecture on how a "real program" is run and its really just beating a dead horse.

Nobody will ever be Tony Bennett...we get it.

Do not read them. Said dozens of times that my posts are no more valuable than anybody else. Just my takes and my opinions. Everyone has their own standards for all things. Mine are not better, they are simply different.

 

[cjbfbp]

The real mystery is why he lasted as long as he did.

Simple. Teague's extension resulting in a large buyout for about the first five years of his tenure. Then, he had two good (or one good and one decent) years out of three from 2017 through 2019, Finally, COVID gave him an extra year.

 

[MplsGopher]

I will not cite specifics, but I can tell you that simply the base line NCAA admission requirements is not an automatic to get in to Minnesota, and a handful of other Big Ten schools. I've seen you mention a couple of times that the Gophers will get 'anyone' into school that meets the NCAA requirements. That is not always the case for a variety of often specific reasons.

In addition, sometimes administration/admissions will put a limit on the total number of kids allowed into school who meet minimum NCAA requirements, but not U of M requirements. In other words no way a coach would be allowed to fill his entire roster that way. Coaches certainly can and do ask for help and get it from admissions quite often. However, there are absolutely instances where other factors come into play and kid who meets NCAA guidelines isn't admitted to Minnesota. Those include what high school classes a kid took, what grades may have been in a specific class in high school, meeting other minimum requirements other than test or GPA, etc. Coaches sweat this out quite often.

There have been a few times a kid was 100% cleared by NCAA based on test and GPA, wanted to come to Minnesota, but couldn't get into school because of a deficient high school transcript, something like a kid didn't take a foreign language or enough math classes or flunked a class he needed credit for, etc. That kid ends up at Houston or Tulsa or FIU (or Nebraska )

Then the kid wasn't that big a recruit. Simple as that.

There has never been a case of a 4* or 5* recruit who was offered by and committed to Minnesota, passed the minimum NCAA DI requirements, but then the admissions office said "sorry coach, gonna have to say no on that one".

Nope. Never has happened. Never will happen. Never should happen.

Two really easy points to refute this:
1) the U offers remedial classes! These are sub-1000 level courses. Why would the university even bother to offer these classes, if it disallowed any applicant who wasn't close to the (high) incoming student body average?? And that's not just for athletes, at all. They take some number of students, every year, under special circumstances, to give them a chance to succeed (even though some don't).
2) Fleck has had multiple student-athletes get in who had to take academic redshirts! That means they didn't even qualify for the minimum NCAA DI standards to be eligible to play right away! But the NCAA allows you to take those kids so long as they spend that first fall working on school work and not participating in games (I think they can still practice with the team). And he got those players in!


Sorry, I will just never believe you that our admissions office told a coach no on a high-level recruit.




Mind you, very key difference from what I am claiming vs what you said in your first paragraph: can get anyone vs will get anyone. I said can. You said will.


You already gave the correct answer in this thread as to why they won't always get anyone: they choose not to. And then lay the line of "oh sorry, you didn't qualify academically, bummer".

 

[MplsGopher]

Several coaches i know would not even recruit a kid that has not covered all his bases academically. They simply do not want kids like that in their programs.

That's the choice of the coach. That doesn't mean he couldn't have gotten that player in. And private school is way different than big public school.

 

[Bad Gopher]

With all due respect to everyone here, some of the best character guys and scholars don't start that way. Mel Newbern was Prop 48, if people remember that, so he lost his freshman year while he got his academics in order. By all accounts he ended up as a good student. Connell Lewis came to the Gophers as a tough kid from the inner city who'd been in some trouble. Now he's an ordained minister. I don't think it's a matter of taking no risks or all the risks; maybe taking a limited number a calculated risks: no more projects at one time than you can handle.

 

[builtbadgers]

With all due respect to everyone here, some of the best character guys and scholars don't start that way. Mel Newbern was Prop 48, if people remember that, so he lost his freshman year while he got his academics in order. By all accounts he ended up as a good student. Connell Lewis came to the Gophers as a tough kid from the inner city who'd been in some trouble. Now he's an ordained minister. I don't think it's a matter of taking no risks or all the risks; maybe taking a limited number a calculated risks: no more projects at one time than you can handle.

Great post. Each case is different.

 

[JimmyJamesMD]

Is it hard looking down your nose at all of us with such lower standards than you??

Honestly, your tone and posts have gotten much more condescending and self-righteous the past few weeks. You had good basketball insights most of the season and it was nice to read. Now, everything reads like a constant lecture on how a "real program" is run and its really just beating a dead horse.

Nobody will ever be Tony Bennett...we get it.

Id disagree its been the last few weeks