Reusse: Foolish for Gophers to continue avoiding St. Thomas hoops rivalry

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upnorthkid said:
Can you explain to me why I should care about St Thomas basketball? Or NDSU, SDSU etc? There’s no rivalry or excitement there. Maybe yall work in an industry where the tommie fans are psycho and hang on every game like it’s all they have, but all it’s going to mean is a loss to a bad team if so, not add some additional existential thing like I’m going to get razzed about a sport we suck at
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For the same reason that this thread and every thread about St. Thomas gets views. They are local and that generates SOME feeling in most people. If that feeling is annoyance, that's much better than apathy. For the folks who say "we don't stand to gain anything" by playing them, they aren't saying that about IUPUI. They are saying losing to St. Thomas would hurt us more than losing to IUPUI which also means it would mean more.

I never meant to imply the razzing would create any sort of existential dilemma. It would simply be annoying. So maybe it does not apply to you, but everyone who says we don't have anything to gain by playing them, is worried about the razzing (not in a way that makes you question the meaning of life).

Maybe you're different. Maybe you genuinely see St. Thomas the same as IUPUI. To me, that seems very odd. In most college sports, you hate WI because they're a rival. They're a rival because they're close to you. I don't understand being a college sports fan and not caring at all about schools within our proximity. If it's the truth, we're the only school and the only fandom I've ever seen that doesn't care about that stuff. So again, it's plausible that you don't care, but I think it's highly unlikely.
 

STPGopher said:
Serious question. Does recruiting play a role? I don't mind having potential Indiana and Chicago recruits see us via the likes of IUPUI, South Carolina Upstate, and Florida Gulf Coast. I don't see us playing UST helping with local recruiting.

I know it's different than football. Maybe it makes no difference whatsoever.

Just a thought.
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IMO, it shouldn't have any impact. We shouldn't be fighting for the same recruits.

If we are fighting for the same recruits, hiding from them hurts us way more than smacking them around for 8 years.
 

What's the chatter on the UST board... do they want the game as much as some of our fans do?
 

Ope3 said:
The benefit would not be from "adding another weak opponent" but instead "replacing a weak opponent" and reaping the financial implications from such a contest.

I'm glad Motzko didn't wuss out.
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I hate that we are probably going to play UST regularly in hockey, but for different reasons than people don't want to play them in hoops. We are an elite hockey program and play one of the top nonconference schedules year in and year out. There are a limited number of teams we can face each year and I'm sorry but St. Thomas doesn't make that cut in my eyes. There are probably 15-20 programs I'd rather we face than waste our time with UST. Now if they build up to a top program, that will change things in my eyes, but for now I hate the money grab.
 



Unregistered User said:
Since Fatprick brought this up for the IUPUI game, why doesn't he write an article railing against Illinois or Purdue not playing IUPUI on an annual basis? The "IU" and "PU" stand for The University of Illinois, and Purdue University, the "I" is for Indianapolis, where the campus is located. IUPUI is a collaboration between IU and PU, so those three schools clearly have closer association with each other than The "U" and St. Thomas.
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Where would you come up with Illinois?
Indiana University – Purdue University Indianapolis
 

howeda7 said:
The level of hubris some folks have over St. Thomas is so over the top. Sure they're going to go from DIII to dominant program in the state and Big East member all within 7-10 years. Book it.
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MissouriGopher said:
The U has significantly more rich alumni who make more on average and donate more to the school.
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Are they donating to the athletic program? Because I don't see anyone donating $75 million towards building a basketball arena for the Gophers. Not to mention, they raised another $12 million just two months after that. You think they won't have NIL funding for hoops more than the Gophers?
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
IMO, it shouldn't have any impact. We shouldn't be fighting for the same recruits.

If we are fighting for the same recruits, hiding from them hurts us way more than smacking them around for 8 years.
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Not my point though. My point was/ is that maybe it's a way to gain a foothold in areas such as Indiana/ Chicago, South Carolina, Florida, etc. If playing those schools helps gain attention from prep players then I don't have a problem with playing those schools.

"We" are already known in the Twin Cities Market. If we wish to be Maturi nice and help the locals, then that is another subject.
 

What's going to happen in a few years when St. Thomas is a member of the Big East in basketball? I would be shocked if that didn't happen.

Selfishly, as a basketball fan I am excited to see more high level games brought to the metro area. Sucks for the Gophers, but if the University wanted to be good at basketball and actually put the money into it, we would crush UST. Right now, I think it would be a close game.
 




MNfootballfan said:
What's going to happen in a few years when St. Thomas is a member of the Big East in basketball? I would be shocked if that didn't happen.

Selfishly, as a basketball fan I am excited to see more high level games brought to the metro area. Sucks for the Gophers, but if the University wanted to be good at basketball and actually put the money into it, we would crush UST. Right now, I think it would be a close game.
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And herein lies the key statement. One school is actively building to join a P6 basketball conference. One is barely relevant in their own.
 

disco said:
Are they donating to the athletic program? Because I don't see anyone donating $75 million towards building a basketball arena for the Gophers. Not to mention, they raised another $12 million just two months after that. You think they won't have NIL funding for hoops more than the Gophers?
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The AD raised over $100M for the athletic village 6 years ago. The AD brings in $25M a year in donations without any major projects. That doesn't include the NIL fund.
 




This is just a new phenomenon for Gopher fans - every state that has a P6 basketball team has at least one other non-P6 D1 program in their state. And they routinely play each other, too. MSU is about to play Oakland on Monday. PSU played - and lost - to Bucknell, and Chicago St. just knocked off Northwestern. So what if the Gophers lose to UST? WTF is everyone so afraid of?
 


Gophers1992 said:
I hate that we are probably going to play UST regularly in hockey, but for different reasons than people don't want to play them in hoops. We are an elite hockey program and play one of the top nonconference schedules year in and year out. There are a limited number of teams we can face each year and I'm sorry but St. Thomas doesn't make that cut in my eyes. There are probably 15-20 programs I'd rather we face than waste our time with UST. Now if they build up to a top program, that will change things in my eyes, but for now I hate the money grab.
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While just a snapshot, the Tommies are at least in the middle of the pack for puck nationally, Tied for 30th out of 64 in the Pairwise. That's just 2 spots behind Mankato St and 2 ahead of the Duluth Campus.

Men's Division I PairWise Rankings - College Hockey | USCHO.com

Rankings College Hockey Rankings, USCHO Poll, USA Today Poll, PairEWise rankings, PWR, PairWise Comaparison, RPI, Ratings Percentage Index
www.uscho.com www.uscho.com

I think they will get consistently higher (Top 20-25 range) when their arena is completed. It has to be attractive to TC kids that are now going to Mankato, St Cloud or Bemidji.

Also I believe the Gophers got credit for the game at the Xcel as a "road" game even though it was largely supporters of the Maroon & Gold in attendance.
 

STPGopher said:
Not my point though. My point was/ is that maybe it's a way to gain a foothold in areas such as Indiana/ Chicago, South Carolina, Florida, etc. If playing those schools helps gain attention from prep players then I don't have a problem with playing those schools.

"We" are already known in the Twin Cities Market. If we wish to be Maturi nice and help the locals, then that is another subject.
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I don't think playing against IUPUI helps our brand recognition in Indianapolis.
 


Gophers1992 said:
I hate that we are probably going to play UST regularly in hockey, but for different reasons than people don't want to play them in hoops. We are an elite hockey program and play one of the top nonconference schedules year in and year out. There are a limited number of teams we can face each year and I'm sorry but St. Thomas doesn't make that cut in my eyes. There are probably 15-20 programs I'd rather we face than waste our time with UST. Now if they build up to a top program, that will change things in my eyes, but for now I hate the money grab.
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Gophers hockey is not ELITE. 21 years since we have won a Natty. With only 64 teams an elite program would be winning more often. And the jump to 64 has been recent. Traditionally has been fewer teams. Yes, I was in Tampa for the melt down in March.

If I was Ben, I would totally schedule the Tommies. Every year for 10 straight. Advertise the crap out of it. I would give 1/2 price tickets to gophers games if you had a ticket stub from a Tommie game. Could be a money maker for both teams. 2 D 1 teams in the state is better than 1. Helps the whole state basketball situation. This could be a marketing HR for both schools. Even sell the rivalry with a trophy. Kicker is you have to win the basketball AND the hockey series to get the trophy. Where are my PR people?
 

I agree with those the only reason you don't play them is if you're scared to play them.

It would be fun to add this game to the schedule every year.

If we're losing to St. Thomas, make changes. Look at who we're currently scheduling....
 
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Big Dawg said:
Gophers hockey is not ELITE. 21 years since we have won a Natty. With only 64 teams an elite program would be winning more often. And the jump to 64 has been recent. Traditionally has been fewer teams. Yes, I was in Tampa for the melt down in March.

If I was Ben, I would totally schedule the Tommies. Every year for 10 straight. Advertise the crap out of it. I would give 1/2 price tickets to gophers games if you had a ticket stub from a Tommie game. Could be a money maker for both teams. 2 D 1 teams in the state is better than 1. Helps the whole state basketball situation. This could be a marketing HR for both schools. Even sell the rivalry with a trophy. Kicker is you have to win the basketball AND the hockey series to get the trophy. Where are my PR people?
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I'm not going to get into a debate over elite programs, but the point is I could name about 15 nonconference opponents that would excite me more than UST.
 

Ope3 said:
While just a snapshot, the Tommies are at least in the middle of the pack for puck nationally, Tied for 30th out of 64 in the Pairwise. That's just 2 spots behind Mankato St and 2 ahead of the Duluth Campus.

Men's Division I PairWise Rankings - College Hockey | USCHO.com

Rankings College Hockey Rankings, USCHO Poll, USA Today Poll, PairEWise rankings, PWR, PairWise Comaparison, RPI, Ratings Percentage Index
www.uscho.com www.uscho.com

I think they will get consistently higher (Top 20-25 range) when their arena is completed. It has to be attractive to TC kids that are now going to Mankato, St Cloud or Bemidji.

Also I believe the Gophers got credit for the game at the Xcel as a "road" game even though it was largely supporters of the Maroon & Gold in attendance.
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I'm with you on all that, I just personally would rather face UND/UMD/SCSU/Denver/BU/BC/CC/Maine/New Hampshire and about 10 others before UST. I'm just one person and my opinion doesn't matter that much, but for the time being if I had it my way UST doesn't make the cut.
 

Unregistered User said:
Not obtuse, it was pedantic.
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Oxford defines "pedant" as "a person who is excessively concerned with minor details and rules or with displaying academic learning."

As such, the fact that both the Universities of Minnesota & St Thomas have a campus presence in both Minneapolis and St Paul should not fail to escape you.
 

Has the Women’s team scheduled them? Guessing they haven’t yet either. Probably come about eventually with the Men’s team.
 


Gophers1992 said:
I'm not going to get into a debate over elite programs, but the point is I could name about 15 nonconference opponents that would excite me more than UST.
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How about our non-conferene opponents this year? Can anyone of the cowards in this thread name even 3 of those teams they'd rather see than St. Thomas?
 

After thinking the Gophers were flat out scared to schedule St. Thomas, the reason could be primarily financial. They may be commanding a higher buy game amount than other schools, and the U doesn't feel it's worth it to schedule at the price they are asking.
 

AO54 said:
How about our non-conferene opponents this year? Can anyone of the cowards in this thread name even 3 of those teams they'd rather see than St. Thomas?
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He’s talking about hockey. If you want to get into that debate and try challenge the schedule this year, which once again was top tier, go ahead
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
For the same reason that this thread and every thread about St. Thomas gets views. They are local and that generates SOME feeling in most people. If that feeling is annoyance, that's much better than apathy. For the folks who say "we don't stand to gain anything" by playing them, they aren't saying that about IUPUI. They are saying losing to St. Thomas would hurt us more than losing to IUPUI which also means it would mean more.

I never meant to imply the razzing would create any sort of existential dilemma. It would simply be annoying. So maybe it does not apply to you, but everyone who says we don't have anything to gain by playing them, is worried about the razzing (not in a way that makes you question the meaning of life).

Maybe you're different. Maybe you genuinely see St. Thomas the same as IUPUI. To me, that seems very odd. In most college sports, you hate WI because they're a rival. They're a rival because they're close to you. I don't understand being a college sports fan and not caring at all about schools within our proximity. If it's the truth, we're the only school and the only fandom I've ever seen that doesn't care about that stuff. So again, it's plausible that you don't care, but I think it's highly unlikely.
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To me there is no overlap, recruiting, history or otherwise, with St Thomas. Maybe that will change over time and will grow, but right now it would equivalent to playing and beating or losing to Duluth. They’re in the same state but there’s nothing that moves the needle about it in terms of your season or history. If people are saying they want to try spark that as part of the future, sure. But if it’s to put people in the stands for one random game, that’s a big meh for me.
 


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