Reusse: Fleck says failure is growth, so there's growth in his first 'U' result

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Triple D said:
It's not Reusse's job to cheer lead for the team and write positive articles, it's his job to be objective.

Having said that, as soon as I heard Fleck say that the media needs to get on board with being more positive I thought that was one dumb thing to say, this ain't the Kalamazoo Times he's dealing with anymore and I'm sure some media guys took that as a challenge.

I haven't decided yet on Fleck. I see some good things but I also see for concerning things too. I listened to KFAN, saw some stuff from Gopher Sports, and some Gopher Facebook posting and Fleck sure seems to repeat the same canned mantra interview after interview after interview, almost like he's going off a script. Does not seem very genuine to me, and Reusse is on record that he read through Brewster's slickness right off the bat. Hope me and Patrick are proven wrong.
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I noticed this as well, his stuff with Dan B. was literally verbatim to what he said later on the podium to the crowd...not saying it is good or bad. If he consistently throws up 9+ win seasons (hope he does), stuff like this will be long forgotten.
 


RodentRampage said:
Ole Miss didn't just hire a new coach.
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Using it as reference. Moved up 30+ spots. PJ moved 11 from where Claeys was at when let go. Just countering those who think TC would not have moved up much, as much, or more than PJ as his staff filled out the class.
 

PMWinSTP said:
Using it as reference. Moved up 30+ spots. PJ moved 11 from where Claeys was at when let go. Just countering those who think TC would not have moved up much, as much, or more than PJ as his staff filled out the class.
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The Gophers were 80th?
 



PMWinSTP said:
Using it as reference. Moved up 30+ spots. PJ moved 11 from where Claeys was at when let go. Just countering those who think TC would not have moved up much, as much, or more than PJ as his staff filled out the class.
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Of course, this is my opinion, but I don't think Claeys would have moved the needle after everything that happened in December. The rating might have even dropped.


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This class is anything but a failure. If you actually take the time and watch the film on these guys its pretty exciting. Some of these kids are bringing real talent that will impact our roster from day 1. I think it is pretty easy to say that if we could have had terrell and corey davis last year we would have jumped all over it. Well maybe some, because you would have people still saying they are MAC players. I will bet that this recruiting class has just as much of an impact as last years did.
 


GophersInIowa said:
Pat is just writing to his ill-informed writers like this person who posted in the comments:



Who are these people?
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+1 i believe the lowest rated player we got from Western was Esezi and he was a 2 star at the time, but i think most of us can agree that he has one of the highest potential out of the group.
 



Triple D said:
It's not Reusse's job to cheer lead for the team and write positive articles, it's his job to be objective.

Having said that, as soon as I heard Fleck say that the media needs to get on board with being more positive I thought that was one dumb thing to say, this ain't the Kalamazoo Times he's dealing with anymore and I'm sure some media guys took that as a challenge.

I haven't decided yet on Fleck. I see some good things but I also see for concerning things too. I listened to KFAN, saw some stuff from Gopher Sports, and some Gopher Facebook posting and Fleck sure seems to repeat the same canned mantra interview after interview after interview, almost like he's going off a script. Does not seem very genuine to me, and Reusse is on record that he read through Brewster's slickness right off the bat. Hope me and Patrick are proven wrong.
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Not sure what else he is supposed to do. He's being asked he same questions over and over. Why would he answer them differently? He probably still doesn't know a ton about the returning players. There isn't a ton he can talk about right now.

I don't believe Reusse is being objective at all. He would find hints to complain about no matter who was hired. It's what he does. That's not objective.
 

Had we signed a top 30 class, the article would have been about how recruiting doesn't matter, only wins matter.
He's already decided he doesn't like Fleck.
 

One Tweeter responded that if Fleck gets the Gophers to the Big Ten championship game in the next four or five years, he doesn’t care how much bull is slung by Phillip John.

Four or five years to win the Squirrel Division of the Big Ten?

That’s quite a burden to place on a coach making $3 million-plus annually and one year from moving into a $170 million athletic complex that will be largely dedicated to football.

How about making that, “If Fleck has the Gophers in the Big Ten championship game in a year or two,’’ you will forgive him all the bull slinging?

Another Twitter respondent said the standard for Fleck in 2017 should be to win seven games.

The Gophers won nine in 2016 and fired the coach, and with a bit more difficult schedule in 2017, winning seven should be considered a success?

This isn’t Lou Holtz taking over for Joe Salem for the 1984 season. This isn’t Glen Mason taking over Jim Wacker for the 1997 season. This isn’t Jerry Kill taking over for Tim Brewster for the 2011 season.

This isn’t a rebuild. There’s a base of talent here. Even without 10 suspended players, it’s a team that impressively won a bowl game, much to the dismay of a university president and athletic director who knew that night in San Diego they were going to fire Claeys and bring in Fleck after Western Michigan played in the Cotton Bowl.
 

GophersInIowa said:
Not sure what else he is supposed to do. He's being asked he same questions over and over. Why would he answer them differently? He probably still doesn't know a ton about the returning players. There isn't a ton he can talk about right now.

I don't believe Reusse is being objective at all. He would find hints to complain about no matter who was hired. It's what he does. That's not objective.
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Gotta say, getting a question in with him is a bit of a challenge...most of what he said on KFAN was unprompted. Like I said, not good or bad, just an observation.

I've posted several times that I think he did a good job recruiting. I thought the class would end up somewhere around 50 like in the recent past. So to me, given the circumstances, PJ didn't knock it out of the park like some seem to be saying, but got a solid hit that he stretched into a double.
 



My favorite part is how he set it up so that even winning the division would mean nothing, the "Squirrel Division". Only national titles would be enough, and even then we would only have won because of futility everywhere else.
 

Cheap shot artist at work.

First, Fleck was hired very late - coaching changes usually occur in early December, not January. Not much time to get A LOT done.

Second, he was recruiting against the backdrop of the business about the boycott, suspensions, Claeys dismissal, etc.

You have players on the team saying they don't trust the AD and Administration.

The University community (meaning, the people cheering the prosecution of the suspended players on, all too many of them having official positions) appears "hostile" (that's being kind) toward the football program.

A lot of the kids can tell themselves "I"m never going to get myself in that position, so I'll be OK," but there will be some who'll say "No, I'd not do that .... but given the way they're treating these guys, why should I assume they won't look for reasons to "get" us?"

What an environment to come into, huh?

Add to that this: who knows what the depth chart will look like when it's over?

For some kids, it's "The team went 9-4 last year .... I'd like to play with the core of that group - are they going to be around?"

For others, it's "Who knows what the depth chart is going to look like? And that's what I'm concerned with - how soon do I get on the field?"

First, transition class is traditionally tough. Reusse should know better than to thrash it.
 

If PJF is a winner here, PR will be riding the bandwagon harder than anyone. And he's right to expect that PJF will be building on a fair level of success. Those that worship at the alter of Fleck, please take a deep breath.
 

One of the reasons cited by Coyle for firing Claeys was his lack of highly ranked incoming classes. Fleck, granted only had a short time, but this is probably no better than Claeys would have done. Time will tell, and I like PJ, but I don't see a big improvement in talent this year. All his talk better lead to results and I will say it again, anything less than 9-4 is a step backwards.
 

HoustonTXGopher said:
One of the reasons cited by Coyle for firing Claeys was his lack of highly ranked incoming classes. Fleck, granted only had a short time, but this is probably no better than Claeys would have done. Time will tell, and I like PJ, but I don't see a big improvement in talent this year. All his talk better lead to results and I will say it again, anything less than 9-4 is a step backwards.
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Umm ..... as inconsistent as Mitch Leidner was (and it drove me nuts), he was a Senior with a lot of experience, and the Gophers won't have that at QB this fall.

Who knows what the depth chart is going to look at after the appeals committee finishes with the players on suspension, etc.

If Fleck did as well as Claeys would have with a transition class, after being hired as late as he was, with all the questions around the program ....

Well, I suggest he be given some time to put his program together.

As far as the comparisons to Brewster .... Good grief, how superficial can one be?

Brewster had never been a head coach in college before getting the Gophers job. He had ideas and theories, but absolutely no experience putting together and running a program.

Fleck has been a head coach, turned a program around and won where he was. Yes, Minnesota is a big step up from where he was - but he has had, and done, the job before.

If Reusse doesn't like that "style," that's fine - it's also hardly "scientific" or "informed," in terms of having any sort of track record as being an accurate predictor of Fleck's potential for success.
 

GophersInIowa said:
Not sure what else he is supposed to do. He's being asked he same questions over and over. Why would he answer them differently? He probably still doesn't know a ton about the returning players. There isn't a ton he can talk about right now.

I don't believe Reusse is being objective at all. He would find hints to complain about no matter who was hired. It's what he does. That's not objective.
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Fair enough. I just don't think there is much for him to talk about at this point.
 

Just to compare, Kill's first class listed by Rivals was 9th in the Big Ten and 54th in the nation. Kill had an extra four weeks to recruit compared to Fleck. Fleck's class is 12th in the Big Ten and 59th nationally.
 

Johnny Olson said:
Just to compare, Kill's first class listed by Rivals was 9th in the Big Ten and 54th in the nation. Kill had an extra four weeks to recruit compared to Fleck.
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As has been stated numerous times, Kill walked into a train wreck. This is not a rebuild or transformation in any way shape or form. This team is coming off a nine win season. There is a core of very talented, hard working players with games experience in a successful program. PJ himself has said as much. He expects to build on last year's record.

Again, I just don't get the dichotomy of overvaluing what Fleck has done recruiting this year (it's been good) but then undervaluing expectations for wins this year.
 

HoustonTXGopher said:
One of the reasons cited by Coyle for firing Claeys was his lack of highly ranked incoming classes. Fleck, granted only had a short time, but this is probably no better than Claeys would have done. Time will tell, and I like PJ, but I don't see a big improvement in talent this year. All his talk better lead to results and I will say it again, anything less than 9-4 is a step backwards.
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A guy with 4 weeks of recruiting time did as much as a guy with 23 months of recruiting would have. Now let's just think about that for a while...

Give Fleck a full cycle to build relationships with recruits and you'll see the classes improve. In his first year at WMU (7 weeks on the job) he had the 112th class in the composite ranking. Next three classes were ranked 71st, 76th and 71st.

This class is not the ceiling of what he will bring into this program.
 

A lot of bad takes in this thread. The class you are counting as Kill's first and comparing it to Fleck's first class had 5 of the top 6 rated recruits by Rivals as Brewster guys. The outlier is a JUCO DB named Drayquan Crawford that I am not sure ever played for the Gophers. In 2017, Fleck has 5 of the top 6 rated recruits in the Gophers class. They are literally polar opposite.

As for expectations for next year? I still don't see where this great foundation of talent is. This team didn't beat a top 25 team all year, loses its Quarterback, it's top Wide Receiver, its top Offensive Lineman, and potentially its entire starting Secondary. Who were you thrilled about taking over for Leidner? And if you have an answer why were you not screaming for that guy most of last season? What makes you think Oregon State is a likely win after barely squeaking by them at home this season? Purdue gave Minnesota a tough game last year with an interim coach and now the Gophers go at Purdue. Last year the Gophers had 5 conference wins and 4 of them came against first year (or interim) coaches. This year, they play one first year coach.

I am not saying 8 or 9 wins is impossible, but to act like it's likely or expected is insane to me given all the questions surrounding the roster. This seems like the type of thing that people did to Brewster when they pretended he wasn't left a god awful roster. That year we had the long time senior QB (Cupito) and our best passing game target (Spaeth) graduate and also had major questions in the secondary. The comparison is even more apt when you consider that a number of the more talented defensive players on the roster Brewster inherited also had their own legal issue. I am not saying the roster is in the same type of shape it was in when Brewster took over, just that expecting improvement when roster quality appears to be down instead of up at a number of key positions is setting the new guy up for failure.
 

Triple D said:
It's not Reusse's job to cheer lead for the team and write positive articles, it's his job to be objective.

Having said that, as soon as I heard Fleck say that the media needs to get on board with being more positive I thought that was one dumb thing to say, this ain't the Kalamazoo Times he's dealing with anymore and I'm sure some media guys took that as a challenge.

I haven't decided yet on Fleck. I see some good things but I also see for concerning things too. I listened to KFAN, saw some stuff from Gopher Sports, and some Gopher Facebook posting and Fleck sure seems to repeat the same canned mantra interview after interview after interview, almost like he's going off a script. Does not seem very genuine to me, and Reusse is on record that he read through Brewster's slickness right off the bat. Hope me and Patrick are proven wrong.
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I met a guy on a business trip who's son was a starter for PJ at WMU the last two seasons and he had nothing but great things to say about him. His son loved playing for him.


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HoustonTXGopher said:
One of the reasons cited by Coyle for firing Claeys was his lack of highly ranked incoming classes. Fleck, granted only had a short time, but this is probably no better than Claeys would have done. Time will tell, and I like PJ, but I don't see a big improvement in talent this year. All his talk better lead to results and I will say it again, anything less than 9-4 is a step backwards.
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While this statement is factually true, it means nothing. I believe Claeys would have won between 5-7 games next year (before a potential bowl). With the questions at QB, OL, and DB 2017 likely was going to be a step back regardless of the coach.

As for recruiting results, I'm satisfied (but not giddy) about what Fleck did. It's impressive that he was able to basically bring in a 'typical' Gopher class in such a short time, but I think for him to be considered a successful hire long-term he will need to bring in classes in the 20-30 range. I will be slightly disappointed if next year's class isn't in that range.

Unless, of course, he proves to be just as good at talent evaluation and the 'coaching up' of recruits as the previous administration. Even if the next five years merely equals the success of the previous five, I will be happy about the change. The added bonus of Fleck's fun personality will be enough to tip the scales for me.
 

HoustonTXGopher said:
All his talk better lead to results and I will say it again, anything less than 9-4 is a step backwards.
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You are correct about anything less than nine wins being a step back. So? Teams have up and down years. There can be a step or two back for any number of reasons. There might be injuries, we might lose all our DBs to suspension, we don't have a QB with any real experience, etc... Why make a statement like that? So you can bash PJ if the team wins 8 games this year? What if they win 5-6? Does it mean hiring PJ was a mistake? We have no idea what TC would have done this year.

Three years from now we can decide if this was a good hire. I will be rowing the boat rather than telling the other oarsmen that the captain is no good.
 

I think he wrote that article with Gopherhole posters in mind.
 

so, really this is PJ's first class of recruits---I hate it when people say wait til he gets his own players in place---well he took a lot of a MAC school, hopefully they are B1G quality that slipped under the radar of IU, PU, NW, Sconny, MSU, etc etc etc...because this team and class is all his.
 

rugger14 said:
You are correct about anything less than nine wins being a step back. So? Teams have up and down years. There can be a step or two back for any number of reasons. There might be injuries, we might lose all our DBs to suspension, we don't have a QB with any real experience, etc... Why make a statement like that? So you can bash PJ if the team wins 8 games this year? What if they win 5-6? Does it mean hiring PJ was a mistake? We have no idea what TC would have done this year.

Three years from now we can decide if this was a good hire. I will be rowing the boat rather than telling the other oarsmen that the captain is no good.
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Great points. 2014 was arguably a better season than 2016, other than the bowl loss - a win against Wisconsin away from playing in the B1G title game. That was a more complete team, in my opinion. The next season? 6-7. 2017 could be similar to 2015 for reasons cited here numerous times. This is a 3+ year process. Now, if we find out today that a bunch of the DBs are cleared, and they actually decide to stay, I'll probably change my expectations.


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the.chucker said:
so, really this is PJ's first class of recruits---I hate it when people say wait til he gets his own players in place---well he took a lot of a MAC school, hopefully they are B1G quality that slipped under the radar of IU, PU, NW, Sconny, MSU, etc etc etc...because this team and class is all his.
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With 2.5 weeks of recruiting... it's kind of like what it is.

His first class pulled together with 2.5 weeks of recruiting including a few players recruited by Tracy Claeys who stayed.

I think that pretty much sums it up.

If you want to believe in your head that he was recruiting for the U of M for 365 days or more, all the power to you!
 

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