Recruiting

[Huckleberry]

With all the talk about prospective future coaches one topic that regularly comes up is their ability to recruit. Some people think we need to do a better job getting in-state recruits and others think we need to do a better job in Florida and Texas. So having some (a lot of) extra time on my hands I compared rosters of some other schools in a similar geographic situation.

I compared Nebraska, Michigan, Wisconsin, Iowa, and Minnesota. While I wouldn’t say any of these schools are located in a recruiting hotbed they have all had recent success with the exception of Minnesota. What I found is that those first 4 schools have 43-49% of their recruits coming from within their borders. Minnesota was the lower at 34%. Also the first four schools ranged from 59% (Nebraska) to 69% (Iowa) of their recruits coming from either in-state or border states. Minnesota again was at the bottom with 49%. On the other hand Minnesota was right in the middle in the number of recruits coming from the traditional recruiting hotbeds of Texas, Florida, California, and Ohio. Minnesota had 29% of their recruits coming from those schools and the others ranged from 18% (Iowa) to 33% (Michigan – which had a large number from Ohio which is also a border state).

I realize statistics can be manipulated and don’t really tell the entire story. For example how many starters/contributors are from within their home state? I didn’t go into it any further and I probably should have. But I don’t think those other states have better athletes than we do in Minnesota. I just think people underestimate the importance of in-state recruiting and over estimate the importance of going to the traditional areas.

Thoughts?

 

[Bayfieldgopher]

How much would these players from Minnesota help our current squad?
Floyd-Notre Dame-WR
Robinson-Iowa State-RB
Frazier-Rice-Safety
McNaul-Northwestern-LB
Sorenson-Wisconsin-LB
Klug-Iowa- DT
B. Binns-Iowa- DE
Gilreath & Anderson Wisconsin WR
McNaul -Wisconsin-DT
McNeal-Clemson-WR
SH-Miami-OT
Plus there are MN kids playing for MN & Dakota squads.

I would guess that most of them would be logging lots of PT. But they all left MN for their own reasons.

 

[50PoundHead]

We haven't done well keeping our best kids home for quite awhile and it's too bad. The game has changed a lot, so I don't want to sound like one of those old-timers (which is hard for me not to sound like at 57), but the Warmath and Stoll teams were full of Minnesota guys and I think that helped with the fan base even when the team wasn't doing particularly well. But, the game has changed, as I said.

Whoever is the next coach needs to address this issue. We've had a run of really good three-and-four star kids in this state and we need to have those kids playing at the University of Minnesota.

I don't want to belabor the Vraa debate of last spring, but I still think he should have received one of the last scholarships. I'm not going to rag on the kid from Oklahoma who came in late and got the last scholarship awarded, but if push comes to shove, take the home state kid (or swallow the scholarship). That's the kind of PR that builds up home state support over the long run.

 

[gold04]

I thought Brewster was going to put a big fence around our borders. It would prevent recruits from leaving the state. The fact of reality is that Brewster like Mase has failed in getting Minnesota's top recruit.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

I will give Brewster the acknowledgment that he has recruited within our borders about as well as possible.

The fact that we are where we are as a program means that we will certainly miss out on some of these kids, but for the most part Brew has done a nice job of recruiting kids from MN (Hageman, Olson's, Edwards, Alipate, Garin, Gjere, etc.).

I'm really not making excuses for not locking up all of our instate kids, but the dynamics of our state make it a little more difficult. If you look at all of the kids mentioned I believe every single one of them is from the Twin Cities. For these kids to choose the U, they also can't be kids who want to "go away for college". Now look at the kids from WI who go to Madison, not a ton of them are from the Madison area.

Brew has done a nice job of landing most of these kids so I hope whoever we get as our next coach will continue that trend, improve the program and really lock down the state.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

I thought Brewster was going to put a big fence around our borders. It would prevent recruits from leaving the state. The fact of reality is that Brewster like Mase has failed in getting Minnesota's top recruit.

That's really not the truth. Brewster has done a much better job of recruiting MN than Mason did.

 

[Wheaton]

That's really not the truth. Brewster has done a much better job of recruiting MN than Mason did.

He may have done a better job than Mason, but that doesn't say much. He still has missed on some of the biggest Prospects in the state.

And as far as the kids playing in the Dakota's don't get things mixed up. Many of those kids are asked to be "preferred Walk-on's". So they have the choice as to walk on and earn a scholarship at Minnesota, or get one right away at NDSU, SDSU, USD, or UND. Also, those kids play FCS football for a reason, if Brewster (or any Minnesota coach) for that matter didn't know what he was doing not going after those kids, other big 10 schools would be sweeping them up right and left.

 

[dpodoll68]

But I don’t think those other states have better athletes than we do in Minnesota.

I was with you until here. Michigan has a waaaaaaaaaaaaaay better quantity and quality of athletes than Minnesota. I mean, not even in the same ballpark. Michigan can support two Big Ten schools and three MAC schools, two of which have had good-to-great success recently.

I just think people underestimate the importance of in-state recruiting and over estimate the importance of going to the traditional areas.

I agree with you, to a point. Where people go wrong is blaming Brewster (or Mason, or any previous Gopher coach) for not keeping the top players home. Other than players who have a strong connection to the school (e.g., the Olson boys), realistically, what percentage of Minnesota players will choose the Gophers over offers from Notre Dame, Michigan, Ohio St., etc.? Getting even one or two over a 5-year period is a big victory in my opinion, and Brewster has done even better than that.

There is only one state who almost never loses their top in-state players to other schools, and that is Texas. The Longhorns can do it because, I mean, c'mon - they're the Longhorns.

 

[Silvio]

I think Brewster has done a much better job than Mase in recruiting MN and even Western WI. I believe his recruits and his efforts to land every MN Kid show this. How much time would Mase have spent trying to land SH? We can argue if it was a wise use of Brew's time or not. I think Brew's improved recruiting efforts in MN and WI are the main reason for the dislike between Bieleman (SP) and Brew and BB's actions on Saturday show he isn't pleased about having to spend more time securing recruits in what WI considers their "backyard".

 

[howeda7]

I was with you until here. Michigan has a waaaaaaaaaaaaaay better quantity and quality of athletes than Minnesota. I mean, not even in the same ballpark. Michigan can support two Big Ten schools and three MAC schools, two of which have had good-to-great success recently.

Why is this? At least part of the reason Texas, Florida and Ohio produce more athletes is that they are simply bigger states. Michigan, not so much. So why is Minnesota producing fewer good football players per capita? Poorly run HS programs? Simply that pale Scandavians don't generally make good football players?

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

Michigan is a much more populous state than MN, it is right behind Ohio in terms of population. It has almost twice as many people as MN.

 

[Silvio]

Michigan has roughly double the population of MN and as of the 2010 census 6 more electoral votes. It is much close in size to Ohio than to MN. Nice Try.

 

[howeda7]

Michigan has roughly double the population of MN and as of the 2010 census 6 more electoral votes. It is much close in size to Ohio than to MN. Nice Try.

Fine. Ohio always gets more play, so my perception was incorrect. Substitute Wisconsin then. I think the point is still valid, why does MN seem to produce fewer good recruits per capita then other states, even other states in the same area of the country?

 

[Silvio]

I believe the recruiting rankings, that many people can disagree about, indicate the MN and WI are pretty equal in player production over a medium to long period of time. Individual years can produce swings based on the amount of highly ranked talent, but MN may be a little higher ranked.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

Fine. Ohio always gets more play, so my perception was incorrect. Substitute Wisconsin then. I think the point is still valid, why does MN seem to produce fewer good recruits per capita then other states, even other states in the same area of the country?

That's actually pretty far from the truth.

Over the past 5 recruiting classes, MN has been slightly better than WI.

State of MN: 2 - 5 stars, 9 - 4 stars, 28 - 3 stars
State of WI: 1 - 5 star, 8 - 4 stars, 27 - 3 stars.

That is according to Rivals (Scout and ESPN are about the same), so over the past 5 years they have been about equal in terms of recruits. The MN kids have performed a bit better, but that's pretty close as well.

I would say that the states of MN and WI are about equal in terms of the amount of football players that the state's produce, which is logical because they are about equal in terms of population.

 

[monk10]

I suggest that we make hockey be a girls sport. I'm not sure if it will help produce more football players, but the side effect of having less hockey will be worth it in the long run.

 

[CentralGopher]

That's really not the truth. Brewster has done a much better job of recruiting MN than Mason did.

I wouldn't say he has done so much better that we are light years ahead of where we were. Average ranking of classes is not that much better and I believe the results are showing on the field.

 

[disco]

I'm really not making excuses for not locking up all of our instate kids, but the dynamics of our state make it a little more difficult. If you look at all of the kids mentioned I believe every single one of them is from the Twin Cities. For these kids to choose the U, they also can't be kids who want to "go away for college".

I think this may have more to do with it than anything else. A lot of people don't want to go to college in the same area they grew up in.

 

[dpodoll68]

I wouldn't say he has done so much better that we are light years ahead of where we were.

Agree. That was a stupid comment for Brewster to make.

Average ranking of classes is not that much better

False. Besides, we're talking about in-state recruiting, not overall. And Brewster has done so much better in that regard that it's not even worth discussing.

and I believe the results are showing on the field

That's because Brewster and his staff can't coach, not because they don't have the players. The talent is there, it's just young and unrefined.

 

[CentralGopher]

Agree. That was a stupid comment for Brewster to make.



False. Besides, we're talking about in-state recruiting, not overall. And Brewster has done so much better in that regard that it's not even worth discussing.

If he has done so much better then why are we the bottom of the big ten with losses to FCS schools? If you think it was a stupid comment to make then how can he have done so much better? Seems contradictory.

 

[GopherFan75]

I suggest that we make hockey be a girls sport. I'm not sure if it will help produce more football players, but the side effect of having less hockey will be worth it in the long run.

I say you go suck a dick.
________
Gs Parallel-Twin

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

If he has done so much better then why are we the bottom of the big ten with losses to FCS schools? If you think it was a stupid comment to make then how can he have done so much better? Seems contradictory.

I think because people are acknowledging that Mason was probably a better coach but a much worse recruiter (especially locally).

It boils down to the fact that no one can win without being able to coach and develop players. Brewster has more guns, he just can't shoot them.

 

[monk10]

I say you go suck a dick.

Sorry I can't. I don't have a hockey team to "play" with .

 

[tikited]

I think because people are acknowledging that Mason was probably a better coach but a much worse recruiter (especially locally).

It boils down to the fact that no one can win without being able to coach and develop players. Brewster has more guns, he just can't shoot them.

I'm not sold on the statement that Brewster has more guns--at least on offense. Our offensive line is a joke compared to Mason's teams. Our receivers are nowhere near the quality that Mason had. Our running backs wouldn't make the third team on Mason's teams. Who knows about the defense since most have been horrible for both coaches? I haven't even seen the "bigger and faster" statement show itself to be true yet.

 

[dpodoll68]

If he has done so much better then why are we the bottom of the big ten with losses to FCS schools? If you think it was a stupid comment to make then how can he have done so much better? Seems contradictory.

You said "rankings". Had you just said recruiting, that is very subjective and up for debate. But, there is no argument that Brewster's rankings are much, much better than Mason's. Also, there can be no argument against the fact that Brewster has done much better with in-state prospects than Mason did.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

I'm not sold on the statement that Brewster has more guns--at least on offense. Our offensive line is a joke compaired to Mason's teams. Our receivers are nowhere near the quality that Mason had. Our running backs wouldn't make the third team on Mason's teams. Who knows about the defense since most have been horrible for both coaches? I haven't even seen the "bigger and faster" statement show itself to be true yet.

That's a fair point. I think you are absolutely right, by the time they graduated, the kids under Mason were better football players (on offense) than they were under Brewster.

However, I wonder how much of that is due to coaching and their ability to develop offensive players (especially lineman).

My point is that Brewster has been able to land more talented HS players. Mason was able to get much more out of his players. This is obviously all speculative and based on recruiting rankings and offer sheets from other schools. However, I am just of the belief that a lot of our offensive success under Mason was coaching and schematic (rather than talent based).

 

[Silvio]

Our receivers are nowhere near the quality that Mason had. .

Is this serious?

For all the found memories we have about mase's running game and O-line, it sure seemed to fail (wear down) more often than not in fourth quarter big ten play.

 

[50PoundHead]

That's a fair point. I think you are absolutely right, by the time they graduated, the kids under Mason were better football players (on offense) than they were under Brewster.

However, I wonder how much of that is due to coaching and their ability to develop offensive players (especially lineman).

My point is that Brewster has been able to land more talented HS players. Mason was able to get much more out of his players. This is obviously all speculative and based on recruiting rankings and offer sheets from other schools. However, I am just of the belief that a lot of our offensive success under Mason was coaching and schematic (rather than talent based).

I agree with Bob Loblaw!

I think Brewster's recruits are better athletically, but they aren't performing nearly as well as Mason's linemen did. Part of that is Mason and Shaw had an identified system and they worked with kids on the fundamentals that contributed to success in that system. Part of Brewster's problem is that he took kids trained under the Mason/Shaw system, tried to put them in the spread, and then two years later, has them doing something else entirely again.

 

[jovs]

Mason looked for a specific skill set in an offensive lineman that fit his program. He knew what he wanted, recruited running backs and lineman that fit, and developed his running game around that. Brewsters' recruiting is more generic. For whatever reason he is having a hard time developing the players he has. Maybe it is because of the constant changes.

What explains the lack of any defense, is it talent, coaching. They don't seem to be able to make plays on the field. Is it just lack of instinct.

 

[tikited]

Is this serious?

For all the found memories we have about mase's running game and O-line, it sure seemed to fail (wear down) more often than not in fourth quarter big ten play.

I'm not sure if you are talking about the receivers or the O-line/running backs? You used my quote about the receivers, but then you wrote about the line/running backs.

You simply can't complain about the O-line or running backs at all. they may have worn down, but they were on the field most of the game due to the defense. They were record setting-enough said there.

The receivers (I include Decker as a Mason guy since he recruited him) were much better under Mason. Ron Johnson-Ernie Wheelwright-Luke Leverson-Aaron Hosack-Logan Payne were all better than what we have now...not to forget Matt Spaeth and Ben Utecht. These guys ran actual routes. Besides Ernie, these guys actually caught the ball. I hope our guys (right now) finally get it, but to think they are better than the above listed is just wrong.