Recruiting the next few years in Minnesota

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Gopherfan84 said:
He was ultra athletic because of his habits prior to coming to the U as well. It’s insulting to Rodney to act like he didn’t put in any work to get that athleticism as well.
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Never said he didnt work hard. Is that how you do it?
 


Gopherfan84 said:
Maybe he got the 40 inch vertical by jumping repetitively 1000s of times playin basketball. Genetics come into play with some of it of course, but there are other factors too that are developed like any other skill. Same with shooting, dribbling, etc… They don’t just roll out of bed, they may not have formal training, but it’s happening somewhere through their daily habits.
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Keep trying coach.

I lived next door to a BB coach and his kids for years. They worked hard and had all the training, shoes, tools, resources, etc. They simply werent born with athleticism. Older one was a pretty good player.
 

Crappie said:
Never said he didnt work hard. Is that how you do it?
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God given talent definition: Something, usually a talent or ability that is either innate (not learned) or that is so extraordinary that it could only have come from a higher power.

That term insinuates that it doesn’t require work to have it (not learned). It’s a little abstract in thought to understand that, but not hard. Similar to reading “not effective” and knowing it’s the same as “bad”. I’m very linear myself so I can see why it’s a struggle, but you can grow. Good luck on your journey.
 

Gopherfan84 said:
God given talent definition: Something, usually a talent or ability that is either innate (not learned) or that is so extraordinary that it could only have come from a higher power.

That term insinuates that it doesn’t require work to have it (not learned). It’s a little abstract in thought to understand that, but not hard. Similar to reading “not effective” and knowing it’s the same as “bad”. I’m very linear myself so I can see why it’s a struggle, but you can grow. Good luck on your journey.
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Ah, changing the game! Well done, coach! You must have been in education too.

As a reminder - the term being discussed is ATHLETICISM.

Talent hasnt been mentioned by me. Good luck on your dishonest attempts.
 


Wet_Blanket_Guy said:
There is absolutely god given athleticism - Rodney Williams is a good example. Even without lifting weights he already had a (guessing here...) ~40 inch vertical. Yeah there are guys who may be born with a 20 inch vertical and by hard work and training they get it to a 26 inch vertical...but there are still people out there who can roll out of bed, do no training, and jump 40 inches....think Rico Tucker back in the day.
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I’m done for any/all Rico References - I remember watching him the first time and I was like dang he gonna be All B10
 
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Crappie said:
Keep trying coach.

I lived next door to a BB coach and his kids for years. They worked hard and had all the training, shoes, tools, resources, etc. They simply werent born with athleticism. Older one was a pretty good player.
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I said genetics have to do with some of it. Those kids may have reached their peak ability with their work. They could also be an anomaly. It could also be proof that different types of work are more valuable. Lots come into play. Your one example isn’t just the truth or norm though since it’s what you’ve seen.
Crappie said:
Ah, changing the game! Well done, coach! You must have been in education too.
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Sure.
Crappie said:
As a reminder - the term being discussed is ATHLETICISM.

Talent hasnt been mentioned by me. Good luck on your dishonest attempts.
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Fair point on talent being brought up by you. I get you and WBG guy mixed up (take that a positive or negative your choice). Hopefully you can try and add something to the basketball side of the convo like he attempts too.
 

Gopherfan84 said:
I said genetics have to do with some of it. Those kids may have reached their peak ability with their work. They could also be an anomaly. It could also be proof that different types of work are more valuable. Lots come into play. Your one example isn’t just the truth or norm though since it’s what you’ve seen.

Sure.

Fair point on talent being brought up by you. I get you and WBG guy mixed up (take that a positive or negative your choice). Hopefully you can try and add something to the basketball side of the convo like he attempts too.
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Dont much care for dishonesty, coach. And your attempt was lame. Intentional, and lame. And you knew that when you typed it.

You want more sugar and less spice regarding the "basketball side". I understand why, given your close relationship with cbj and his staff. There is no way to sugar the past season and 3/4. Avoiding the obvious doesnt make it go away. You do fine work there, I do admit.
 

question for those confusing athleticism with strength and/or skill: Is Treyton Thompson gonna develop arhleticism? Was Ogele? Freeman?

You can maybe improve your athleticism on the margins. You can't develop what ain't there.
 



Crappie said:
Dont much care for dishonesty, coach. And your attempt was lame. Intentional, and lame. And you knew that when you typed it.
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You’re giving me too much credit here, but sorry for triggering your feelings. Feel free to ignore me.
Crappie said:
You want more sugar and less spice regarding the "basketball side". I understand why, given your close relationship with cbj and his staff. There is no way to sugar the past season and 3/4. Avoiding the obvious doesnt make it go away. You do fine work there, I do admit.
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I like discussions about basketball and improvement. The constant whining about how bad we are doesn’t do much for me. I enjoy sports for pleasure and want our team to be better. I enjoy discussing how that can happen.
 

USAF said:
question for those confusing athleticism with strength and/or skill: Is Treyton Thompson gonna develop arhleticism? Was Ogele? Freeman?
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Again there is some genetics that come into play. This is true with anything though.
USAF said:
You can maybe improve your athleticism on the margins. You can't develop what ain't there.
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agreed, this same measure goes with shooting, passing, etc.. there are margins for those skills too.
 

Gopherfan84 said:
You’re giving me too much credit here, but sorry for triggering your feelings. Feel free to ignore me.

I like discussions about basketball and improvement. The constant whining about how bad we are doesn’t do much for me. I enjoy sports for pleasure and want our team to be better. I enjoy discussing how that can happen.
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Poor BB doesnt do much for me, failure in recruiting guards capable of leading a team doesnt do much for me, 1 conference win at this point in the season doesnt do much for me.

My favorite sports team of all being in last place two seasons in a row doesnt do much for me. Being the laughinstock of major college BB doesnt do much for me.

Worst FT % in college BB doesnt do much for me.

Perhaps that is whining in your world. OK, I can live with that.

Check your feelings at the door, coach.
 




Gopherfan84 said:
Again there is some genetics that come into play. This is true with anything though.

agreed, this same measure goes with shooting, passing, etc.. there are margins for those skills too.
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Answer his question with a yes or no regarding TT.
 

Gopherfan84 said:
Maybe he got the 40 inch vertical by jumping repetitively 1000s of times playin basketball. Genetics come into play with some of it of course, but there are other factors too that are developed like any other skill. Same with shooting, dribbling, etc… They don’t just roll out of bed, they may not have formal training, but it’s happening somewhere through their daily habits.
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So every basketball player should have a 40 inch vertical then. Lots of people play basketball and jump thousands of times via games and playing sports as they grow up…yet they still don’t have 40 inch verticals. Genetics is the overwhelming factor.
 

Crappie said:
Answer his question with a yes or no regarding TT.
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TT has added muscle and is quicker and stronger than last year. He already moves better than most 7’0 people on the planet his size. So yes he can improve his athleticism. He already has in one year here
 

Gopherfan84 said:
TT has added muscle and is quicker and stronger than last year. He already moves better than most 7’0 people on the planet his size. So yes he can improve his athleticism. He already has in one year here
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In general he moves better than most 7 footers. In comparison to really good basketball players, who happen to be 7 feet, he is average at best. He doesn’t show nimble footwork or any real balance. He can jog corner to corner and that’s pretty much it. He also doesn’t really elevate (granted he doesn’t really need to).
 

Gopherfan84 said:
TT has added muscle and is quicker and stronger than last year. He already moves better than most 7’0 people on the planet his size. So yes he can improve his athleticism. He already has in one year here
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Adding muscle is not athleticism. He ran the floor very well as a FR, and that hasnt changed.
 

Wet_Blanket_Guy said:
So every basketball should have a 40 inch vertical then. Lots of people play basketball and jump thousands of times via games and playing sports as they grow up…yet they still don’t have 40 inch verticals. Genetics is the overwhelming factor.
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Never said genetics wasn’t a factor, but that doesn’t change the original argument that it skill and something to be developed. It doesn’t change that Rodney had a 40 inch vertical because his daily habits. Had he not done what he did, it’s not like he’d have a 35 in vertical. That’s simple muscle development
 

Crappie said:
Adding muscle is not athleticism. He ran the floor very well as a FR, and that hasnt changed.
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Adding muscle and strength develops better athleticism. Athleticism is more than just running fast.
 

Wet_Blanket_Guy said:
In general he moves better than most 7 footers. In comparison to really good basketball players, who happen to be 7 feet, he is average at best. He doesn’t show nimble footwork or any real balance. He can jog corner to corner and that’s pretty much it. He also doesn’t really elevate (granted he doesn’t really need to).
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We agree at the B1G level among top 5% of 7 ft athletes he’s very average at best. That wasn’t the question. The question was whether he can improve his athleticism. He can and has. Will be athletic as Kevin Durant? No. Not all shooters will be as good as he is either. Doesn’t change the fact that they are skills that can be developed and grown.
 


Gopherfan84 said:
We agree at the B1G level among top 5% of 7 ft athletes he’s very average at best. That wasn’t the question. The question was whether he can improve his athleticism. He can and has. Will be athletic as Kevin Durant? No. Not all shooters will be as good as he is either. Doesn’t change the fact that they are skills that can be developed and grown.
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This is accurate.

There are two levels athletes:

(1) God given & (2) average athletes who enhance their abilities through training. I’ll note that (1) god giving athletes can also train and enhance their abilities.

Rodney was a (1)

TR is a (2) and has seen marginal increases in mobility / agility…and these gains will probably continue slowly until ~age 28 then they will peak and slowly decrease
 

Wet_Blanket_Guy said:
This is accurate.

There are two levels athletes:

(1) God given & (2) average athletes who enhance their abilities through training. I’ll note that (1) god giving athletes can also train and enhance their abilities.

Rodney was a (1)

TR is a (2) and has seen marginal increases in mobility / agility…and these gains will probably continue slowly until ~age 28 then they will peak and slowly decrease
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We disagree on the god given part and it’s more the definition of god given. Rodney’s genetics allowed him the potential to be that level of athlete. He still put in a lot of work to get there. When I read god given it means there was no work or development/learning required to attain it
 

Gopherfan84 said:
We disagree on the god given part and it’s more the definition of god given. Rodney’s genetics allowed him the potential to be that level of athlete. He still put in a lot of work to get there. When I read god given it means there was no work or development/learning required to attain it
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he was a god-given who also trained then... (i call that out above)...but if he didn't train, he would still be able to jump 35"...which is still insane
 



Wet_Blanket_Guy said:
he was a god-given who also trained then... (i call that out above)...but if he didn't train, he would still be able to jump 35"...which is still insane
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Last thing on the athleticism argument. Both can be true. You can be naturally athletic but also enhance that athleticism, which makes it a skill. Players train to improve their athletic numbers at the combine for a reason. There are god-given freak athletes, but there are stories of non freak athletes adding inches to their vert and cutting down sec on sprint times.
 



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