Recruiting strategy

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gopherbadgerman said:
About the same I agree. C-, although I posted in another thread the Badgers recruit Evan Anderson could be a real solid player. Like Walker. But aside from him, not too good. Not as many holes to fill there though...
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Badgers starting backcourt Hughes+Bohannen both gone while half of our starting backcourt (Nolen) likely returns.

I won't rip on an 18 year old kid but having seen Evan Anderson play I can't see him making much of an impact at the Big10 level (i.e. not comparable to Walker). Bo does have a history of coaching up big unathletic white guys so you never know.
 

fryguy22 said:
Badgers starting backcourt Hughes+Bohannen both gone while half of our starting backcourt (Nolen) likely returns.

I won't rip on an 18 year old kid but having seen Evan Anderson play I can't see him making much of an impact at the Big10 level (i.e. not comparable to Walker). Bo does have a history of coaching up big unathletic white guys so you never know.
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Time will tell. He had some nice offers, but you never know...I agree overall not a very good class on paper though.
 

Thanks, I was wondering where there were planning on playing him. Hopefully other teams can't figure out who to guard Oto with either.

JohnnyGopher said:
The word today was Tubby wants Oto to primarly play the 4. The big issue I hear from some who are not sold on Oto is who does he guard, not close to big or physical enough to guard most PF's in the BT and too slow to handle most SF's. They are going to have to pick there spots with Oto and really pay attention to matchups until he adds a significant amount of weight. He looks great when he's shooting by himself but the big question is can he do it when he's being defended. The gophers aren't exactly sure what they have with Oto, but we're intrigued enough to sign him.
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Grades

Just remember Ralpsh Sampson was a 4 star... Just proof whoever hands out the grades arent always on top of it.. Damian Johnson 2 star? Jeff Hagen1 star.. I would take Hagen over Ralph in a minute...
 

Hagens soph yr 10.7 mpg 4.1 ppg 2.9 rpg

Ralph soph yr 25.6 mpg 8.2 ppg 5.8 rpg

Ralph's numbers double Jeff Hagen's; are you sure you would rather have Hagen (after two years) than Ralph (after two years)? Please keep in mind that Ralph still has his (almost always most productive) Junior and Senior years ahead of him
 


fryguy22 said:
Hagens soph yr 10.7 mpg 4.1 ppg 2.9 rpg

Ralph soph yr 25.6 mpg 8.2 ppg 5.8 rpg

Ralph's numbers double Jeff Hagen's; are you sure you would rather have Hagen (after two years) than Ralph (after two years)? Please keep in mind that Ralph still has his (almost always most productive) Junior and Senior years ahead of him
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Well said.
 

5, 4, 3, 2 Stars (Etc)

5 Star recruits are Top 25 rated - Kris Humphries is recent Gopher example.

4 Star recruits are Top 25-75 rated - Ralph Sampson III is recent Gopher example.

3 Star recruits are Top 75-150 rated - Blake Hoffarber is recent Gopher example.

2 Star recruits are Top 150-300 rated - Damian Johnson is recent Gopher example.

Butler made it to NC game with a roster of mostly 3 Star or 2 Star recruits. It can be done.

Duke OTOH made it to NC game with a roster of mostly 5 Star or 4 Star recruits.
 

Ralph

Fair question. But answer me this has Ralph Sampson played like a 4 star recruit or a 2 star recruit??? Hagen was a 1 star recruit or should I say 0 star recruit- walk on.

I dont think its a coincidence Tubby went after Walker. If you saw the disgusted look on Tubbys face when Ralph would get ripped by a 5'10 guard or the head shakes he would turn and give to his assistants when Ralph couldnt squeeze a rebound it says it all.

Look at Ralphs blog if not for games againt lower, lower leve D-1 teams who's centers were 6'6 Ralph had a great game against Purdue and maybe one other solid game when it mattered.

To date Ralph has not lived up to the hype thats just fact..
 

Ralph #12 ranked C in class of 2008 by rivals.com

Some centers around him (2009-2010 stats):

Henry Sims (#10 C, Georgetown): 1.4 ppp 1.4 rpg
Greg Echenique (#11 C, Rutgers): 12.6 ppg 7.7 rpg
John Riek (#13 C, Miss St): 1.3 ppg, 1.3 rpg
Philip Jurick (#14 C, Tenn) redshirted at Tenn, quit (grades), unable to find what he did this past year

In context Ralph's numbers don't look terrible. I do agree that expectations of him were very high coming in, probably largely due to his dad's reputation, and I do expect him to show improvement this year
 



Ralph

I want Ralph to be a force and help the Gophers win but 65-70 games in he has the same issues. A passive personality is hard to change- its hard to change that.

He doesnt have to be a star I would take Jamaal Magloire, Nazaar Mohammed or a poor man's Jauan Johnson
 


Sampson outplayed Johnson in both meetings this year. He has been first or second on team in rebounding and block shots his first two years. Hardly passive statistical categories. FG% greater than 50 with positive asssist to turnover ratio. We do not make tournament Ralph's first year if not for his play down stretch in Northwestern game in Big Ten Tourney.
 




I agree with some of the posts on Sampson. I think he is solid, and I would take him over Hagen in a second. Better shot blocker and rebounder. Not as polished on offense, but I think that will continue to develop. Towards the end of the year I think Colt was a better player, and was much more aggressive, which is what we needed. I did like how they played high-low together, and I think they will build on it next year.
 

According to Rivals, Sampson was the #12 center. Here's the breakdown. Anyone who cannot see that it takes a little longer for a big to develop isn't paying attention. Only ONE center averaged double digits last year out of the Top 15 centers in America (class of 2008). One is playing in the NBA right now.

1) BJ Mullens, OSU -- 8.8 pts/4.7 (as FR), now a reserve in NBA

2) Ty Walker, Wake Forest -- 1.9 pts/1.4 rebs as SOPH

3) Tony Woods, Wake Forest -- 4.6 pts/3.2 rebs as SOPH

4) J'Mison Morgan, UCLA -- 1.9 pts/1.3 reb as SOPH

5) Kenny Kadji, Florida -- 0.9 pts/0.7 reb as SOPH (injured)

6) Michael Dunnigan , Oregon -- 9.0 pts/4.9 reb as SOPH

7) Tyler Zeller, North Carolina -- 9.3 pts/4.6 reb as SOPH

8) Jeff Withy, Arizona -- sitting out, transfered to Kansas

9) Kenny Frease, Xavier -- 5.1 pts/4.3 rebs as SOPH

10) Henry Sims, Georgetown -- 1.4 pts/1.4 reb as SOPH

11) Greg Engenique, Rutgers -- 12.6 pts/7.7 reb as SOPH

12) Ralph Sampson III, Minnesota -- 8.2 pts/5.2 reb as SOPH

13) John Riek, Mississippi State -- 1.3 pts/1.3 reb as SOPH

14) Phillip Jurik, Tennessee -- transfer to Chattanooga JUCO

15) Jared Bergrenn, Wisconsin -- 1.1 pts/0.4 reb as SOPH


Out of that Class of 2008 Top 15 - Ralph was the 4th leading scorer (8.2 pts) and 2nd leading rebounder (5.2 reb) in the country last year!!
 

beowulftom said:
Wow... Gopherfish.
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"I think the signs point to Texas as the top option for Cory with Nova as his second choice.
What signs are you referring to? The volcanoe in Iceland?
I DISAGREE."

LOL. You criticize me when I told you the truth and what was painfully obvious if you didn't let your homer biases cloud your thinking. Cory was a longshot to come here. Cory obviously wants to get to the NBA as quickly as he can and there is a perception that Tubby's program is not a good one for showcasing individual talent. Cory mentioned style of play as an important criteria-and reading between the lines, I pretty much knew he was going elsewhere unless Texas and Nova had better PGs to block Cory's playing time. Second, his best friend Tris signed there. Third, sometimes having an older brother is actually a detriment--since the more talented younger brother wants to get out of his brother's shadow. Fourth, if Cory had wanted to be a Gopher, he had no reason to string us out. I said Gophers had about a ten percent chance of signing Cory--and it turns out that was generous.
 

GopherFish said:
"I think the signs point to Texas as the top option for Cory with Nova as his second choice.
What signs are you referring to? The volcanoe in Iceland?
I DISAGREE."

LOL. You criticize me when I told you the truth and what was painfully obvious if you didn't let your homer biases cloud your thinking. Cory was a longshot to come here. Cory obviously wants to get to the NBA as quickly as he can and there is a perception that Tubby's program is not a good one for showcasing individual talent. Cory mentioned style of play as an important criteria-and reading between the lines, I pretty much knew he was going elsewhere unless Texas and Nova had better PGs to block Cory's playing time. Second, his best friend Tris signed there. Third, sometimes having an older brother is actually a detriment--since the more talented younger brother wants to get out of his brother's shadow. Fourth, if Cory had wanted to be a Gopher, he had no reason to string us out. I said Gophers had about a ten percent chance of signing Cory--and it turns out that was generous.
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Tayshaun Prince, Keith Bogans, Chuck Hayes, Kelenna Azubuike, Rajon Rondo, Randolph Morris, Jodie Meeks (et al) might disagree with you.
 

How did it turn out that 10% was generous? Did Cory break down the percentages today?

GopherFish said:
"I think the signs point to Texas as the top option for Cory with Nova as his second choice.
What signs are you referring to? The volcanoe in Iceland?
I DISAGREE."

LOL. You criticize me when I told you the truth and what was painfully obvious if you didn't let your homer biases cloud your thinking. Cory was a longshot to come here. Cory obviously wants to get to the NBA as quickly as he can and there is a perception that Tubby's program is not a good one for showcasing individual talent. Cory mentioned style of play as an important criteria-and reading between the lines, I pretty much knew he was going elsewhere unless Texas and Nova had better PGs to block Cory's playing time. Second, his best friend Tris signed there. Third, sometimes having an older brother is actually a detriment--since the more talented younger brother wants to get out of his brother's shadow. Fourth, if Cory had wanted to be a Gopher, he had no reason to string us out. I said Gophers had about a ten percent chance of signing Cory--and it turns out that was generous.
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Friend Of Tubby said:
Tayshaun Prince, Keith Bogans, Chuck Hayes, Kelenna Azubuike, Rajon Rondo, Randolph Morris, Jodie Meeks (et al) might disagree with you.
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Actually, they might disagree with YOU. How many of them were rated as high as Cory and chose to play for Tubby? Daily Gopher said Tubby's system might be hindrance to landing a recruit like Cory Joseph. Even Cory said he wanted an uptempo system, not grind out system like at Minnesota.
 


GopherFish said:
Chances of Cory are zero as I type and I said 10%. Do the math!
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Good point, since it is in any way possible, relevant, or fair to evaluate the probability of something thats GOING to occur AFTER the event occurs.

On a related note, nobody but Duke ever had any chance at winning the national championship this year....why did the other teams even bother to show up? ;)
 

fryguy22 said:
Good point, since it is in any way possible, relevant, or fair to evaluate the probability of something thats GOING to occur AFTER the event occurs.

On a related note, nobody but Duke ever had any chance at winning the national championship this year....why did the other teams even bother to show up? ;)
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And your point is exactly what?
 

My point is that it is ridiculous for you to say the chances "were" less than 10% AFTER cory has made his decision....were you really unable to infer that from my analogy?

Nobody really knows what our chances "were", but my guess would be 20% - 1 in 5. Just so you can understand "the math".....

Cory= going to attend one school.
U of M= a finalist for Cory.
Finalists=5.

U of M= 1/5

1/5=20%

Hope that helps.
 

fryguy22 said:
My point is that it is ridiculous for you to say the chances "were" less than 10% AFTER cory has made his decision....were you really unable to infer that from my analogy?

Nobody really knows what our chances "were", but my guess would be 20% - 1 in 5. Just so you can understand "the math".....

Cory= going to attend one school.
U of M= a finalist for Cory.
Finalists=5.

U of M= 1/5

1/5=20%

Hope that helps.
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And your point is what?? That you are incapable of analyzing and weighting the odds of an event. In case you didn't get the memo, Texas was an odds on favorite to be Cory's destination and Villanova was likely his second choice.
 

GopherFish said:
Actually, they might disagree with YOU. How many of them were rated as high as Cory and chose to play for Tubby? Daily Gopher said Tubby's system might be hindrance to landing a recruit like Cory Joseph. Even Cory said he wanted an uptempo system, not grind out system like at Minnesota.
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Prince Top 10. Bogans Top 5. Hayes Top 25. Azubuike Top 25. Morris Top 10. Rondo Top 25. Meeks Top 40.

Each was HS A-A (either McDonalds, Parade, Student=EA Sports and/or Street & Smith).
 



fryguy22 said:
Do you seriously still not understand this?

Here, this might be of use to you.

http://mnabe.themlc.org/
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Its ridiculous for you to put so much time into attacking me for saying that the Gopher's chances of signing Cory were 10% and later calling that generous. My point of saying it was generous was that in hindsight it was 0, after Cory made announcement.
 

fryguy22 said:
My point is that it is ridiculous for you to say the chances "were" less than 10% AFTER cory has made his decision....were you really unable to infer that from my analogy?

Nobody really knows what our chances "were", but my guess would be 20% - 1 in 5. Just so you can understand "the math".....

Cory= going to attend one school.
U of M= a finalist for Cory.
Finalists=5.

U of M= 1/5

1/5=20%

Hope that helps.
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20% seemed overly generous given that the heavy odds that Cory had in signing with Texas and then Villanova before Minnesota. Ten percent was more reasonable.
 

GopherFish said:
20% seemed overly generous given that the heavy odds that Cory had in signing with Texas and then Villanova before Minnesota. Ten percent was more reasonable.
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There is a problem with assigning odds to decisions. They are not random events. Talking about the odds makes it sound like Cory is randomly drawing his choice with some schools having better odds than others, and that is obviously not the case.
 

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