Recruit numbers

Killjoy

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As my close personal friend Sid would say "All you 'geniuses' who think that the 2012 recruiting class is magically going to end up with the right number you might want to read the following quotes from MV at his new recruit forum:"

“Honestly, I don't know. Probably won't until NSD. I feel like additional recruits will find new homes and a number of current players will transfer out at the end of Spring. As it stands now, Kill would have to petition the B1G office in order to oversign by a max of three, and he'd need to provide legitimate reasons why.”
………..
“Alright, so I did some arithmetic this AM:

We had 24 prospects actually enroll from the class of 2011, four of which were midyear transfers/early enrollees though only three could be counted back to the class of 2010.

We have 27 commits for the 2012 class, though Anyanwu is a likely grayshirt and would count against the 2013 class. So we'd enroll 26 and we have 8 midyear guys, four of which could count back to 2011 (24-3=21). That leaves us with 22 spots in the 2012 class, room enough for a max of 3 additional recruits if we so choose.

The problem is, we have only 25 scholarships "available" given the current players on scholly, which doesn't include walk-ons like Austin Hahn or Aaron Hill who allegedly received scholarships from Brew but it's unclear/unknown whether they're still on scholarship. If they sign a max of three more players, given the math above, they'd be at 89 scholarships on the roster and we know that can't happen at all during the fall and would require a waiver from the Big Ten just to be able to do so on Feb 1st.

Bottom line, someone has to be dropping from this class or transferring/flunking out from the current roster, or some combination of both. The math just doesn't add up otherwise.”
………..

Since MV seems to be uncertain how this is all going to work out, contrary to the rest of you I don’t believe the coaches know exactly how this is going to fit together. Therefore it must be done with mirrors and magic.:)
 


Lauer is probably going to grayshirt.

MV's comments were done over a week ago. As I was trying to point out, this is a moving target and we probably won't know nor will the coaches know how it will fit together long after NSD.
 

How MV balanced our recruits

As of now we have 4 more recruits than we have scholarships (85). In order to balance the number of recruits at 85 MV removed the scholarships from Austin Hahn and Aaron Hill and gray shirted Duke Anyanwu and Ben Lauer. I was right. It is done with smoke and mirrors.
 

As of now we have 4 more recruits than we have scholarships (85). In order to balance the number of recruits at 85 MV removed the scholarships from Austin Hahn and Aaron Hill and gray shirted Duke Anyanwu and Ben Lauer. I was right. It is done with smoke and mirrors.
I am not quibbling with your point, but Kill is a big believer if following the rules, they have a plan to fit within the rules. You can count on that much.
 


I am not quibbling with your point, but Kill is a big believer if following the rules, they have a plan to fit within the rules. You can count on that much.

Come on, it's ludicrous to think a college coach with the experience and track record of Kill would actually have a better handle on where his recruiting stands than some guy posting on GopherHole.
 

There is a lot of stuff we (including MV) doesn't know that the coaches do know.

There is still a lot of time for players to transfer away. I'm not saying that I am hoping that players leave, but it was just last week that Parish decided to go elsewhere. It's definitely possible and actually probable that another kid decides to go elsewhere come next August.

The coaches also would be in the know as far as players transferring. The coaches are usually part of the process of the transferring kids finding a good fit elsewhere.
 

Come on, it's ludicrous to think a college coach with the experience and track record of Kill would actually have a better handle on where his recruiting stands than some guy posting on GopherHole.
Blasphemy!
 

We have 27 commits for the 2012 class, though Anyanwu is a likely grayshirt and would count against the 2013 class.
We have 28 commits and Duke and Lauer are both potential grey (the color) shirts at this point.
 



corcoran1

I am not quibbling with your point, but Kill is a big believer if following the rules, they have a plan to fit within the rules. You can count on that much.

I absolutely agree with your assessment. My point is and has been in the past that this is a moving target and that any plan you develop needs to be a matrix to be flexiable enough to contain the multiple scenarios and variables that are possible. As coach Kill has pointed out often, you won't even know until signing day whether they are committed or not. Even then you still won't know for sure until they show up and are accepted for class.

Some people on this board are so focused on trees (stars and rankings) that they don't see the real forest of recruiting. It is not about getting the most stars or highest class ranking. It is about obtaining the optimal solution for your program from the talent pool that may be available to you. Personally I think Kill and his staff's realize this and therefore their focus and effort is very well placed. That is why they are incredibly good at recruiting. (And I don't mean just because that end up with the right number of recruits). What they end up with is a class that fits together well to achieve their objectives.

Again that is why I find it quite foolish when people focus on stars and don't evaluate how the recruiting class meets the needs of the program and fits the vision for the program. The later definition of recruiting will also lead to a different conclusion as to whether your staff is good recruiters or not.
 

We have 28 commits and Duke and Lauer are both potential grey (the color) shirts at this point.

Sorry about that. I knew that since I took it right off MV's scholarship grid. I am just not very good at proof reading.
 

Bob_Loblaw

There is a lot of stuff we (including MV) doesn't know that the coaches do know.

There is still a lot of time for players to transfer away. I'm not saying that I am hoping that players leave, but it was just last week that Parish decided to go elsewhere. It's definitely possible and actually probable that another kid decides to go elsewhere come next August.

The coaches also would be in the know as far as players transferring. The coaches are usually part of the process of the transferring kids finding a good fit elsewhere.

Of course you are right that they know more than we do. That isn't a great accomplishment. My point is that it is impossible for them to know everything that is going on since it is very likely that there will be things that will happen later which they can't possibly know now. It may not be a crap shoot but it is a moving target that may not stop moving until this fall. This is not an easy thing to manage for the coaches even if they know more than we do.
 

Of course you are right that they know more than we do. That isn't a great accomplishment. My point is that it is impossible for them to know everything that is going on since it is very likely that there will be things that will happen later which they can't possibly know now. It may not be a crap shoot but it is a moving target that may not stop moving until this fall. This is not an easy thing to manage for the coaches even if they know more than we do.
I think you are exactly right, it is not an easy thing to manage at all and they can not afford to miss filling a scholarship given the critical holes on the team, and they can not go over the limit without consequences they can not accept either. Having some flexibility is the only way they can manage it.
 



Sorry about that. I knew that since I took it right off MV's scholarship grid. I am just not very good at proof reading.
I don't think MV is counting Duke or Lauer in the scholarship numbers, but I could be wrong.
 

I don't think MV is counting Duke or Lauer in the scholarship numbers, but I could be wrong.

He has them on his scholarship grid but he is assuming that they will be gray shirted. That, along with no scholarship for Austin Hahn and Aaron Hill is how he gets the fall 2012 scholarships down to 85.
 

Come on, it's ludicrous to think a college coach with the experience and track record of Kill would actually have a better handle on where his recruiting stands than some guy posting on GopherHole.

Am I the only one who found this funny?
 

Hahn and Hill were awarded scholarships by Brewster after being walk-ons. They are counted. That's why they are red. No one else on the grid was given a scholarship other than as incoming freshman. The reason it all doesn't work out is simple:

There are players on the roster that are not returning. That is private info until the AD releases that information.
The Minnesota "commit list" is invalid. Kill has so said many times.
Coach Kill knows EXACTLY who is in and who is out. NO ONE here knows. NO ONE.

Coach Kill is far more aware than anyone who posts here about his situation with scholarships. To make any conjecture on "petitioning the B1G" to oversign is absolutely ridiculous.

This thread is a joke, right?
 

Clearly MV knows more about what's going on within the team then Kill does.
/sarcasm
 

I'm pretty sure Kill is a high stakes gambler who flunked high school math unlike all us 'geniuses' who are desperate enough to come up with threads like this one. NSD can't come soon enough.
 

Hahn and Hill were awarded scholarships by Brewster after being walk-ons. They are counted. That's why they are red. No one else on the grid was given a scholarship other than as incoming freshman. The reason it all doesn't work out is simple:

There are players on the roster that are not returning. That is private info until the AD releases that information.
The Minnesota "commit list" is invalid. Kill has so said many times.
Coach Kill knows EXACTLY who is in and who is out. NO ONE here knows. NO ONE.

Coach Kill is far more aware than anyone who posts here about his situation with scholarships. To make any conjecture on "petitioning the B1G" to oversign is absolutely ridiculous.

This thread is a joke, right?

I am often amazed the assumptions people make on this blog and then present them as fact. Your above statement that they are presented in red because they are walk-ons is correct but if you took the time to read what MV said you would realize that the reason they are in red is that he is assuming that they won't receive scholarships in 2012. That is why if you add up the total scholarships MV has you will find they are not included in the total scholarships number.

I have tried to point out many times before how complicated this issue is and ill-informed people are about it. Thanks for making my case again. You may think you have all the answers but you don't. In fact nobody knows exactly how this is going to play out. The good news is that even though you don't realize this, Coach Kill does.
 

I am often amazed the assumptions people make on this blog and then present them as fact. Your above statement that they are presented in red because they are walk-ons is correct but if you took the time to read what MV said you would realize that the reason they are in red is that he is assuming that they won't receive scholarships in 2012. That is why if you add up the total scholarships MV has you will find they are not included in the total scholarships number.

I have tried to point out many times before how complicated this issue is and ill-informed people are about it. Thanks for making my case again. You may think you have all the answers but you don't. In fact nobody knows exactly how this is going to play out. The good news is that even though you don't realize this, Coach Kill does.

Wrong. wrong. and wrong. How do you know any of that? I refute your case against me with your own statements.

They were both walk-ons, they are not now. Only Kill knows what their status is. FYI, why would such crazy assumption be made when Aaron Hill was named winner of the 2011 Butch Nash Award for being competitive on the field and in the classroom? An award voted on BY THE COACHES, and presented to him by COACH KILL. What, to soften the blow?

Apparently you fixated on the Hill and Hahn thing, and not my post. Strange as it may seem, I agreed with you, except for your somewhat bizarre assumption that we will end up with too many scholarships. To repeat my post:

"There are players on the roster that are not returning. That is private info until the AD releases that information.
The Minnesota "commit list" is invalid. Kill has so said many times.
Coach Kill knows EXACTLY who is in and who is out. NO ONE here knows. NO ONE.

Coach Kill is far more aware than anyone who posts here about his situation with scholarships."

We will not have too many scholarships. Coach Kill is smarter than me. And you.
 

Wrong. wrong. and wrong. How do you know any of that? I refute your case against me with your own statements.

They were both walk-ons, they are not now. Only Kill knows what their status is. FYI, why would such crazy assumption be made when Aaron Hill was named winner of the 2011 Butch Nash Award for being competitive on the field and in the classroom? An award voted on BY THE COACHES, and presented to him by COACH KILL. What, to soften the blow?

Apparently you fixated on the Hill and Hahn thing, and not my post. Strange as it may seem, I agreed with you, except for your somewhat bizarre assumption that we will end up with too many scholarships. To repeat my post:

"There are players on the roster that are not returning. That is private info until the AD releases that information.
The Minnesota "commit list" is invalid. Kill has so said many times.
Coach Kill knows EXACTLY who is in and who is out. NO ONE here knows. NO ONE.

Coach Kill is far more aware than anyone who posts here about his situation with scholarships."

We will not have too many scholarships. Coach Kill is smarter than me. And you.

Yeah, I think that the commit list has already been taking care of itself since Kill said it was invalid. Ballesteros, Hinds, Davis, B. Morris are all gone. I'm not sure who else I would say I am not 100% won't be here next year. Dinero Moss apparently had some grade issues, there are the rumors about Hinojosa, I'm not sure who else.

Just from deductive reasoning, and absolutely no inside info, I can't imagine that Coach Kill wouldn't renew (would pull) Aaron Hill's scholarship. I don't see how Coach Kill could sit in a recruits living room and ask him to walk on at the U, and then pull the scholarship of a kid who has a good chance of starting, will play a ton, and has done everything right (inside and outside the classroom). The only way I could see this happening is if Aaron Hill is SUCH a good student that his financial aid and academic scholarships could earn him close to a free ride, other than that. No chance (IMO). What is the message that sends to Antonio Ford, Adam Bungum, Cedric Dicke, Ernie Heifort? Hey, if you come here, earn a scholarship, become a borderline starter and excel in the classroom, we might still pull your scholly....I just can't see it.

I don't think he'll pull Hahn's scholarship either, but the Hill scholly should be 100% safe.

Lastly, there are absolutely more players who are not returning. I talked about it in my initial post on this thread. It would be shocking if every upperclassman who is currently holding scholarship on our roster is still here next August. I'm not going to name names because i'd feel like dirt if I was wrong, but there are still 3-4 guys who seem ripe to transfer. They didn't play at all last year despite playing positions of weakness, their position has been heavily recruited again this season (with JuCo's even). I have no inside info when i'm saying this, but it'd be extremely unique if all of those guys came back.
 

was orseke on scholorship? with mortell being rs last year and with maxx's ability to punt, it makes me wonder if dan will be back
 

Killjoy, I think Kill has everything figured out. He's not stupid. You act like just because we normal people don't know how it's going to work the coach doesn't. I am sure he knows exactly what he's doing.
 

You can bet that Kill has a definate plan on how this will all shake out and make the schollys work -- it's called contingency planning.
 

Re: Alipate

Gee whiz, I thought they "pulled" scholarships for players that didn't want to change positions or work out. I guess there's another way...he's now at TE. If Kill was desperate for schollies, would he have kept Moses around?
 

Re: Alipate

Gee whiz, I thought they "pulled" scholarships for players that didn't want to change positions or work out. I guess there's another way...he's now at TE. If Kill was desperate for schollies, would he have kept Moses around?
Is this confirmed or just rumored?
 

From DL65's report of Kill's session with Sid this morning, it is confirmed by Kill
 

Question (I should know this, but it's Sunday and I'm too lazy to look it up):

I'm not sure about this, so someone help me out. It's my understanding that all D-1 scholarships are awarded on a year-to-year basis. In 99.9% of the cases, the scholarships are renewed, but I believe there have been instances where a scholarship simply is not renewed for performance reasons. Assuming I'm right, in an extreme case, I suppose a coach could non-renew a scholarship for a bench player in order to free up an opening for a more-talented recruit.

Can any chime in on this?

As far as the Gophs situation, I know I've heard Kill say that the recruiting lists posted on various internet sites are not correct. I have to assume that someone on the staff keeps track of the numbers, and know how many open scholarships they have, and how many have committed for next year. Also, on another thread, someone posted the offer sheets that schools send out to recruits, and several of those sheets state clearly that a school has the right to withdraw an offer based on other committments and available scholarships. So, it's possible that the U may have withdrawn offers to kids. Bottom line - we'll all know for sure on signing day.
 

Question (I should know this, but it's Sunday and I'm too lazy to look it up):

I'm not sure about this, so someone help me out. It's my understanding that all D-1 scholarships are awarded on a year-to-year basis. In 99.9% of the cases, the scholarships are renewed, but I believe there have been instances where a scholarship simply is not renewed for performance reasons. Assuming I'm right, in an extreme case, I suppose a coach could non-renew a scholarship for a bench player in order to free up an opening for a more-talented recruit.
Yes, this is correct. Scholarships are renewable. Usually (particularly in the Big Ten where such pretenses are important) the coaching staff will find an FCS or DII landing spot for a player rather than unceremoniously giving him the boot.
 




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