Record Comparisons

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btowngopher said:
I’d personally take an 11-2 season paired with a 3-10 season over two 7-6 seasons. Just an example of record comparisons, same records, but occasional greatness beats steady mediocrity for me.
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I'd take many 7-6 seasons in a row as long as they were winning trophy games consistently. But they're not winning those games so 7-6 is sucky.
 

btowngopher said:
I don’t know what the investment was. He was the latest buzz name coach in the MAC. Many were cautiously optimistic that his recruiting prowess would transfer over, but I didn’t expect Brew level recruiting. For some reason people get so attached to what the AD says he wants out of a hire, like they don’t always set the bar at becoming a powerhouse. The AD said he hired Fleck to recruit better and win more…yeah, no sh*t he said that.
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That's not all he said, but you already know that. The $$ investment was substantial in Fleck and his assistants salaries. Coyle didn't bring him in for a lot of the same results with a highlight year sprinkled in maybe once a decade.
 


PMWinSTP said:
That's not all he said, but you already know that. The $$ investment was substantial in Fleck and his assistants salaries. Coyle didn't bring him in for a lot of the same results with a highlight year sprinkled in maybe once a decade.
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Gophers rank pretty low in assistant pool money and PJ's contract is closer to middle, but I forget where it ranks
 


PMWinSTP said:
I hope you are right, but not really my point.
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I get your point, I'm not comparing PJ to Kirk, Kirk has earned a lot more than PJ, but there was time Iowa was stuck in middle and Iowa fans were upset he had so much moeny as they wanted him ousted.

Patience worked out with Iowa

my only point is, changing coaches constantly isn't going to lead to success. We know PJ can get it done
 



PMWinSTP said:
Not true. With his COVID pay cut he still ranked 21, down from 19. https://247sports.com/LongFormArtic...abo-Swinney-Ed-Orgeron-166204490/#166204490_1
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Sorry, I was referring solely to B1G. In the B1G our assitant pool trails other schools, and even from link you shared, just looking at B1G

1. Harbaugh
2. Ryan Day
3. Pat Fitzgerald
4. Mel Tucker
5. Scott Frost
6. Ferentz
7. PJ Fleck

Can't find a link for our assistant pool at moment, but it's not in the top half
 



Fleck teams seem to have a tendency for righting the ship as the year goes on. I'm cautiously optimistic that whatever that was on offense will do likewise. If that involves a bye bye boot, I'm good with it.
 


MaxyJR1 said:
Saw a bunch of tweets that Scott Frost has the same record as Tim Brewster through so many games. Then comparisons that Flecks last so many games are the same as Kill and Mason.

Through 37 games Frost and Brewster have matching 14-23 records. That seems to be a pretty good comparison as it includes the first 37 games of the hires.

When people start comparing Fleck, Mason and Kill last so many games, it's not the same comparison. Comparing year 1-5 to 8-10 , 3-6 and including a 7 game conference season with COVID and no non-conference games seems to be a stretch.

Glen Mason last 49 games at MN 29-20 (Years 7-10) 32 Conference Games
Kill/Claeys' 28-21 (Years 3-6) 32 Conference games
Fleck 28-21 (includes year 1, COVID, and 35 conference games)


First 49 games
Fleck 28-21 (35 Conference Games and COVID)
Kill/Claeys 25-24 (31 conference games)
Mason 24-25 (33 conference games)

For Comparison- Matt Campbell was 26-23 through 49 games with 35 Conference games

Again let's enjoy the season.


NIL's/Transfer Portal/COVID are all reasons that comparisons become pretty cloudy.
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Mason followed Wacker:
  • 1994-1996: 1-7 in Big Ten last three years before Mason took over
  • 1994-1996: 4-7, 3-8, 3-8 overall.
Kill followed Brewster:
  • 2010: Brewster 0-3 in Big Ten (let go), team 2-6 Big Ten, overall 3-9 - no bowl
  • 2009: 3-5 Big Ten, 6-7 - no bowl
  • 2008: 3-5 Big Ten, 7-6 - lost Bowl to Kansas
Fleck followed Kill/Claeys
  • 2016: 5-4 Big Ten, 9-4 overall - Bowl win
  • 2015: 2-6 Big Ten, 6-7 overall - Bowl win
  • 2014: 5-3 Big Ten, 8-5 overall - Citrus Bowl loss
You're right, you can't look at their last years. However, Fleck inherited a much better situation than did Kill or Mason, especially Mason. The good news is he took advantage of the situation he inherited and did well with it. 2019 was a great year. He had a lot of talent the previous staff left in place (an advantage the others didn't have), and added talent that contributed that year (Morgan, Bateman...).

Where does it go now? One game doesn't define a program or a career. Every one of our coaches, including Kill and Mason, have had some losses to teams they should beat (although I prefer the way Mason crushed most of the non-conference cupcakes). And, this past loss was historic largely because of the spread. The spread was too high given the history of Fleck's approach against non-conference teams and inflated because of how the team handled Colorado the previous week (which looks to be pretty bad this year). Also, maybe Bowling Green won't end up being as awful as people think.

All that said, Fleck inherited a better situation than Kill or Mason, and did more with it during 2019 than any other coach in our system has. Now, the question is does he continue to build with some periodic 2019 type years and consistent top-half of the division finishes, or go on a run of average success like Mason had over ten years?
 

Ozzy&Ray said:
Mason followed Wacker:
  • 1994-1996: 1-7 in Big Ten last three years before Mason took over
  • 1994-1996: 4-7, 3-8, 3-8 overall.
Kill followed Brewster:
  • 2010: Brewster 0-3 in Big Ten (let go), team 2-6 Big Ten, overall 3-9 - no bowl
  • 2009: 3-5 Big Ten, 6-7 - no bowl
  • 2008: 3-5 Big Ten, 7-6 - lost Bowl to Kansas
Fleck followed Kill/Claeys
  • 2016: 5-4 Big Ten, 9-4 overall - Bowl win
  • 2015: 2-6 Big Ten, 6-7 overall - Bowl win
  • 2014: 5-3 Big Ten, 8-5 overall - Citrus Bowl loss
You're right, you can't look at their last years. However, Fleck inherited a much better situation than did Kill or Mason, especially Mason. The good news is he took advantage of the situation he inherited and did well with it. 2019 was a great year. He had a lot of talent the previous staff left in place (an advantage the others didn't have), and added talent that contributed that year (Morgan, Bateman...).

Where does it go now? One game doesn't define a program or a career. Every one of our coaches, including Kill and Mason, have had some losses to teams they should beat (although I prefer the way Mason crushed most of the non-conference cupcakes). And, this past loss was historic largely because of the spread. The spread was too high given the history of Fleck's approach against non-conference teams and inflated because of how the team handled Colorado the previous week (which looks to be pretty bad this year). Also, maybe Bowling Green won't end up being as awful as people think.

All that said, Fleck inherited a better situation than Kill or Mason, and did more with it during 2019 than any other coach in our system has. Now, the question is does he continue to build with some periodic 2019 type years and consistent top-half of the division finishes, or go on a run of average success like Mason had over ten years?
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Nice post. My concern would be if a higher level of recruiting can be maintained without a string of good to very good years. Big difference consistently having 6-8 regular season wins as opposed to consistently 8-10 regular season wins for a place like Minnesota when it comes to recruiting.
 



Ozzy&Ray said:
Mason followed Wacker:
  • 1994-1996: 1-7 in Big Ten last three years before Mason took over
  • 1994-1996: 4-7, 3-8, 3-8 overall.
Kill followed Brewster:
  • 2010: Brewster 0-3 in Big Ten (let go), team 2-6 Big Ten, overall 3-9 - no bowl
  • 2009: 3-5 Big Ten, 6-7 - no bowl
  • 2008: 3-5 Big Ten, 7-6 - lost Bowl to Kansas
Fleck followed Kill/Claeys
  • 2016: 5-4 Big Ten, 9-4 overall - Bowl win
  • 2015: 2-6 Big Ten, 6-7 overall - Bowl win
  • 2014: 5-3 Big Ten, 8-5 overall - Citrus Bowl loss
You're right, you can't look at their last years. However, Fleck inherited a much better situation than did Kill or Mason, especially Mason. The good news is he took advantage of the situation he inherited and did well with it. 2019 was a great year. He had a lot of talent the previous staff left in place (an advantage the others didn't have), and added talent that contributed that year (Morgan, Bateman...).

Where does it go now? One game doesn't define a program or a career. Every one of our coaches, including Kill and Mason, have had some losses to teams they should beat (although I prefer the way Mason crushed most of the non-conference cupcakes). And, this past loss was historic largely because of the spread. The spread was too high given the history of Fleck's approach against non-conference teams and inflated because of how the team handled Colorado the previous week (which looks to be pretty bad this year). Also, maybe Bowling Green won't end up being as awful as people think.

All that said, Fleck inherited a better situation than Kill or Mason, and did more with it during 2019 than any other coach in our system has. Now, the question is does he continue to build with some periodic 2019 type years and consistent top-half of the division finishes, or go on a run of average success like Mason had over ten years?
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I remember those glory days of
losing to a 3-9 Hawaii team
beating a 4-7 Memphis team 20-17
beating a 3-8 Houston team 17-14
beating a 4-8 Arkansas St. team 17-14
beating NDSU 10-9
losing to a 7-4 Ohio team 23-17 and
Losing to a10-2 Toledo team 38-7.

Mason also got 4 Non Conference pancakes a year to play.
 


Assistant coaches salary pools.

Here are the national rankings for every B1G team that provided this information:

8. Michigan — $4,248,667

9. Ohio State — $4,025,950

19. Nebraska — $3,450,000

24. Michigan State — $3,195,154

27. Iowa — $3,049,072

31. Minnesota — $2,932,000

35. Maryland — $2,783,000

40. Wisconsin — $2,632,200

41. Rutgers — $2,609,450

47. Indiana — $2,317,478

49. Purdue — $2,245,000

56. Illinois — $2,011,208

Northwestern — N/A

Penn State — N/A
 

Kill was a mediocre qb from matching PJ’s 11-2 2019 campaign. Still, PJ is better at every aspect of BCS football than Jerry.
 

gophernut1 said:
Assistant coaches salary pools.

Here are the national rankings for every B1G team that provided this information:

8. Michigan — $4,248,667

9. Ohio State — $4,025,950

19. Nebraska — $3,450,000

24. Michigan State — $3,195,154

27. Iowa — $3,049,072

31. Minnesota — $2,932,000

35. Maryland — $2,783,000

40. Wisconsin — $2,632,200

41. Rutgers — $2,609,450

47. Indiana — $2,317,478

49. Purdue — $2,245,000

56. Illinois — $2,011,208

Northwestern — N/A

Penn State — N/A
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{team} Football Assistant Coaches' Salaries - USA TODAY

See the complete salary history of {team} Football Coaches Salaries, including scheduled school pay and bonuses. Brought to you by USA TODAY.
sports.usatoday.com
 

Spaulding!No! said:
Kill was a mediocre qb from matching PJ’s 11-2 2019 campaign. Still, PJ is better at every aspect of BCS football than Jerry.
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Never watched Jerry go for it on his own 30. Never saw Jerry get dumb penalties for being on the field. If PJ can have the record Jerry/Claeys did with his own kids, then sure but that won’t happen.
 


JoeSchmoe said:
Never watched Jerry go for it on his own 30. Never saw Jerry get dumb penalties for being on the field. If PJ can have the record Jerry/Claeys did with his own kids, then sure but that won’t happen.
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When do you consider it to be "his own kids"? Because if you're referring to when the roster is completely void of players from the previous staff, Kill/Claeys went 15-11 (7-10) in years 5 & 6.
 

GophersInIowa said:
You completely whiffed on the point.
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I know exactly the point....Your comparison was silly....A coach that coaches for 10 years and has one great season and 9 average to below average seasons did not create a level of stable success for the program...The jury is still out on PJ....Many coaches before him have tried and failed here to do that.
 

imthewalrus said:
You can’t fire your way to success. That is a vital thing for Gopher fans to remember. Constant chaos and changing faces in the coaching ranks really is not a healthy thing. That includes playing musical chairs with assistant coaches.
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We wouldn't be the first or last for Sanford. They made a bad hire and it's time to move on.
 

MaxyJR1 said:
I remember those glory days of
losing to a 3-9 Hawaii team
beating a 4-7 Memphis team 20-17
beating a 3-8 Houston team 17-14
beating a 4-8 Arkansas St. team 17-14
beating NDSU 10-9
losing to a 7-4 Ohio team 23-17 and
Losing to a10-2 Toledo team 38-7.

Mason also got 4 Non Conference pancakes a year to play.
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Lol
 

MaxyJR1 said:
I remember those glory days of
losing to a 3-9 Hawaii team
beating a 4-7 Memphis team 20-17
beating a 3-8 Houston team 17-14
beating a 4-8 Arkansas St. team 17-14
beating NDSU 10-9
losing to a 7-4 Ohio team 23-17 and
Losing to a10-2 Toledo team 38-7.

Mason also got 4 Non Conference pancakes a year to play.
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I used always defend Glen Mason, so to be true to form I will point out that in ten years of playing cupcakes (and that is a lot of games), his middle of the road and better teams almost always destroyed all BGSU types by huge margins. Even one of his weaker teams (had no running back for the first half of the year,(thank you Gary Russell for flunking out) he still managed to beat NDSU in a wretched game that reminded me of Saturday.

This was supposed be a pretty solid, veteran filled PJF team, if you apply the Mason standard, the score should have been something like 55-10, iwth 3 RBs over 100 yards. Mason's good teams tended to pancake even respectable MWC teams like Colorado State. Of course in his later years the results vs. Iowa and Wisconsin or any tough Big Ten team later in the year were not as impressive.

If you want to compare coaches, Kill's teams often looked like crap vs. weak teams and that awful home game vs. Western MIchigan in 2013? reminded me a lot of Saturday, but Kill found a way to win. Sitting in the stands the game Saturday felt most like that awful WMU game, had we eeked out a win.
 

JoeSchmoe said:
Never watched Jerry go for it on his own 30. Never saw Jerry get dumb penalties for being on the field. If PJ can have the record Jerry/Claeys did with his own kids, then sure but that won’t happen.
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I was a Kill fan but his teams had plenty of penalties.
 

JoeSchmoe said:
Never watched Jerry go for it on his own 30. Never saw Jerry get dumb penalties for being on the field. If PJ can have the record Jerry/Claeys did with his own kids, then sure but that won’t happen.
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Jerry was only here four and a half years, so he didnt do anything with only his kids.
 


GophersInIowa said:
When do you consider it to be "his own kids"? Because if you're referring to when the roster is completely void of players from the previous staff, Kill/Claeys went 15-11 (7-10) in years 5 & 6.
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The 2020 season all of kill/claeys kids were gone unless there was a random 5th year senior that stayed and played during covid. This year is 100% all PJ recruits. It's not the same situation when kill started. Kill inherited a 1 win team that was bad and went 1-11, 7-6, 6-7, 1-6 in the previous 4 yrs with nobody going to class and the team losing scholarships because of it. PJ inherited a 9 win team that had gone 8-5, 8-5, 6-7, 9-4 in the previous 4 yrs. If PJ is a better recruiter and coach than kill/claeys, then he will win more than 9 games and come in 1st in the west with his kids. Otherwise he is the same or worse than kill/claeys.

We were told PJ was brought in to win championships. When is that going to happen? We were already winning and the team had very good grades. The only thing PJ is better at than kill/claeys is social media because he promotes what all the other coaches did behind the scenes but didn't advertise.
 

salzie said:
I get your point, I'm not comparing PJ to Kirk, Kirk has earned a lot more than PJ, but there was time Iowa was stuck in middle and Iowa fans were upset he had so much moeny as they wanted him ousted.

Patience worked out with Iowa

my only point is, changing coaches constantly isn't going to lead to success. We know PJ can get it done
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PJ can definitely get it done. I hope he starts growing more as a coach and learning that picking friends with poor records for coordinator positions probably won’t work out.
Also probably the worst in-game manager according to many in the media
 

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