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MaxyJR1

MaxyJR1

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Saw a bunch of tweets that Scott Frost has the same record as Tim Brewster through so many games. Then comparisons that Flecks last so many games are the same as Kill and Mason.

Through 37 games Frost and Brewster have matching 14-23 records. That seems to be a pretty good comparison as it includes the first 37 games of the hires.

When people start comparing Fleck, Mason and Kill last so many games, it's not the same comparison. Comparing year 1-5 to 8-10 , 3-6 and including a 7 game conference season with COVID and no non-conference games seems to be a stretch.

Glen Mason last 49 games at MN 29-20 (Years 7-10) 32 Conference Games
Kill/Claeys' 28-21 (Years 3-6) 32 Conference games
Fleck 28-21 (includes year 1, COVID, and 35 conference games)


First 49 games
Fleck 28-21 (35 Conference Games and COVID)
Kill/Claeys 25-24 (31 conference games)
Mason 24-25 (33 conference games)

For Comparison- Matt Campbell was 26-23 through 49 games with 35 Conference games

Again let's enjoy the season.


NIL's/Transfer Portal/COVID are all reasons that comparisons become pretty cloudy.
 
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btowngopher said:
I’d personally take an 11-2 season paired with a 3-10 season over two 7-6 seasons. Just an example of record comparisons, same records, but occasional greatness beats steady mediocrity for me.
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There's something to be said for it being very clear what the ceiling on Mason and Kill were ... and that PJ has shown the ability to exceed that already.
 

A_Slab_of_Bacon said:
There's something to be said for it being very clear what the ceiling on Mason and Kill were ... and that PJ has shown the ability to exceed that already.
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He is 5-6 since 2019....He is 17-19 taking out 2019...He is basically the same as Kill and Mason....Above average to below average at times.
 



salzie said:
Fleck hasn't turned average program to consistent top 20 team in 5 years, color me shocked
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Take a look at what a lot posters said when he was hired....Give him 5 years and they will be consistently competing for a B10W championship......It's not happening this year and most certainly won't next year with the turnover in players.
 



MaxyJR1 said:
You can't ignor a Top 10, 11-2 season. If it's his only break through season in 10, then we can have the conversation.
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Ok....But we are a year and half removed and we are a shell of that season....This season was suppose to be a good one with everyone coming back......I don't see how next year is going to be much better with personnel losses, especially on offensive line and cornerback.
 



GopherGangsta said:
Ok....But we are a year and half removed and we are a shell of that season....This season was suppose to be a good one with everyone coming back......I don't see how next year is going to be much better with personnel losses, especially on offensive line and cornerback.
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No clue what next year will look like with Transfers and retires. This season isn't over, so we don't know if it's bad or good.
 

GopherGangsta said:
Ok....But we are a year and half removed and we are a shell of that season....This season was suppose to be a good one with everyone coming back......I don't see how next year is going to be much better with personnel losses, especially on offensive line and cornerback.
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What do you think should happen?

Fleck should be fired? Because that’s not happening.
 

scools12 said:
What do you think should happen?

Fleck should be fired? Because that’s not happening.
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Of course not, but if he moves on in a couple years his legacy will be one great year and the rest will be the gopher football we have seen for the majority of 50 plus years.
 




Seems like there are two kinds of fans: those who want to disregard 2019 and those who want to only look at 2019. Don't think either of those make a lot of sense. At any given point in time, fans should be looking at a coach's total body of work, and the recent trend. 2019 was a very good year, and any evaluation of Fleck needs to give him credit for the best season in most of the fan base's memory. At the same time, in 2019 we lost to both of our biggest rivals, including getting blown out at home in what was effectively the division championship game. So, 2019 also isn't the kind of year that is good enough to me to say "I don't care what you do going forward, your legacy is cemented" as it would be if we managed to win the B1G or go to the CFP or something like that.

The hope for many was that this would be a year closer to (even if not quite as good as 2019). That would make it a lot easier to treat 2020 as an anomaly because the COVID year would be the outlier between two good years. If this ends up being a bad year, 2019 looks more like the anomaly.

This is a big year for Fleck. If we put up a losing record B1G record, that would be 4 losing conference seasons in 5 years, and a career conference B1G winning percentage roughly equal to Jerry Kill's. If we put up a winning B1G record, that would be 2 times in 3 years with the weird COVID year sandwiched in between. Also, dropping to 1-9 against Iowa/Wisconsin would be really painful, but winning those two in the same year would be the first time that has happened in a very long time.

So bottom line, Fleck has lots of opportunities to write his own story this year, but in year 5, it has to happen on the field and not at the press conference.
 

You can't win the in the B10 (or the MAC, it seems) being unable to complete a pass for the entire second half, or completing only 5 passes out of 13, with two interceptions and a lost fumble.
 

Here is what this shows us. All 3 of Fleck, Kill and Mason were good coaches. I have news for everyone. It isn't coaching that holds this football team or athletic department back. Never has been.

All those wanting to get rid of Fleck aren't wise. There isn't a magic coach that is going to come in here and all of a sudden make us Penn State. Consistency in the coaching staff, etc is the only way to success at this school.

At some point, the athletic department/school in general might figure out what it takes to build winners here, but firing coaches all the time isn't it.
 

GopherGangsta said:
He is 5-6 since 2019....He is 17-19 taking out 2019...He is basically the same as Kill and Mason....Above average to below average at times.
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You missed the point. We are talking about the occasional great season, Mason and Kill never had that one season that was as good as 2019. And Mason was here double the time that Fleck has been here. If Fleck has another top 10 season in the next five years, I’d gladly keep him for another five.
 

GopherGangsta said:
Take a look at what a lot posters said when he was hired....Give him 5 years and they will be consistently competing for a B10W championship......It's not happening this year and most certainly won't next year with the turnover in players.
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unlike you, I haven't given up on season

I think it's Iowa's to lose, but MN can be in the running.
 

Excellent discussion in this thread. Cudos to main participants in this balanced and realistic thread…so far!😊
 

Go Gophs said:
Here is what this shows us. All 3 of Fleck, Kill and Mason were good coaches. I have news for everyone. It isn't coaching that holds this football team or athletic department back. Never has been.

All those wanting to get rid of Fleck aren't wise. There isn't a magic coach that is going to come in here and all of a sudden make us Penn State. Consistency in the coaching staff, etc is the only way to success at this school.

At some point, the athletic department/school in general might figure out what it takes to build winners here, but firing coaches all the time isn't it.
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Kirk had few years where Iowa was struggling and his contract look ridiculous. Sticking with Ferentz definitely paid off for Iowa

I've seen nothing from PJ that makes me want to move on from him

in next 5 years if we never do better than 7-5, I might change my tune
 

btowngopher said:
You missed the point. We are talking about the occasional great season, Mason and Kill never had that one season that was as good as 2019. And Mason was here double the time that Fleck has been here. If Fleck has another top 10 season in the next five years, I’d gladly keep him for another five.
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Don't remember Coyle saying he was looking for an occasional great season when he hired Fleck.
 

btowngopher said:
You missed the point. We are talking about the occasional great season, Mason and Kill never had that one season that was as good as 2019. And Mason was here double the time that Fleck has been here. If Fleck has another top 10 season in the next five years, I’d gladly keep him for another five.
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2003 Mason had 10 wins
 

salzie said:
Kirk had few years where Iowa was struggling and his contract look ridiculous. Sticking with Ferentz definitely paid off for Iowa

I've seen nothing from PJ that makes me want to move on from him

in next 5 years if we never do better than 7-5, I might change my tune
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He had been at Iowa for 17 years when he got that contract. He has had four losing seasons.
 

I will have to take a look at the zig-zaggy chart again to see where we're at.
I like the culture and everything Fleck brings to the program, and I do like the recruits we've been landing. I am just not a fan of a lot of his personnel/coordinator decisions.
 



The 2003 Minnesota Golden Gophers football team - In their seventh year under head coach Glen Mason, the Golden Gophers compiled a 10–3 record and outscored their opponents by a combined total of 503 to 285.[1] The team made an appearance in the Sun Bowl, defeating Oregon 31-30. The 2003 Minnesota Golden Gophers football team was ranked 17th in the final USA Today/AFCA Coaches poll and 20th in the final Associated Press poll. This was the most recent season in which Minnesota defeated the Wisconsin Badgers and received Paul Bunyan's Axe until 2018.
 


PMWinSTP said:
Not the expectation with this HC hire so it's moot. You know as well as I what the investment in this hire was as far as expectations.
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I don’t know what the investment was. He was the latest buzz name coach in the MAC. Many were cautiously optimistic that his recruiting prowess would transfer over, but I didn’t expect Brew level recruiting. For some reason people get so attached to what the AD says he wants out of a hire, like they don’t always set the bar at becoming a powerhouse. The AD said he hired Fleck to recruit better and win more…yeah, no sh*t he said that.
 

I love the RTB culture, recruiting, player development and NFL level talent (not at every position, but NFL level players are there) we see on the football team. With all of these positives it is my assumption that we could put a winning team on the field. I am still optimistic that this year we can make a run at winning the B1G. However, the offense seems to have regressed this year. I thought it was just being conservative, but even when we have been conservative in years past there was always the ability to execute. The problem is these issues should not be there. We have a veteran OL, with a veteran QB and wide receivers that are being coached by the same coach who developed Bateman and TJ. This is a head scratcher and makes me understand why people are calling for our OC's head.

The thing I feel is important to remember is that we have never had a talent pool rated this well (Brewster's high ranking were mere smokescreens) and this much talent on the field. We haven't enjoyed a season like 2019 with the optimism of it continuing. All is not well in Gopherland right now, but there is a lot to be optimistic about. Hopefully whatever is slowing us down (OC, a QB that has the weight of losing his dad and not playing well on his shoulders, WR development, Fleck's conservative approach against poor competition, ???) will resolve itself in our next context.
 

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