Rebuilding, Program's A Mess, etc.

[Duluthguy]

On nearly every thread about a potential candidate there are multiple posts about the next coach facing a huge rebuilding job or inheriting a mess. Perhaps, but just like many of us were too positive about going into the season with a lack of experience on defense, you could make the case that too many of us are too pessimistic now.

First off, I think with more experience on defense next year, Brewster would even do better. Add a coach who can coach up players, eliminate stupid mistakes and doesn't run the ball every down for 2 ypg, and you have a better team. By the way, teams like Florida and Texas are showing us how important experience is even for the big boys.

We also tend to forget that as bad and as inexperienced as Brewster was, he got us to two bowl games. And, Mason showed us that getting to low level bowl games is not a fluke here. Yes, they are lousy bowls, but what bowls did schools like Mich., Ill, ND and Purdue go to last year? This year, Texas and Georgia could struggle to make a bowl. These programs are hardly " a mess."

There is a valid debate about whether the current players are under coached, over hyped or both. We'll hopefully get part of the answer next season. But, I doubt the players are as totally untalented as they are playing right now.

Yes, the situation is bleak, but maybe not as bleak as our emotions make it feel. (Remember what happened after the last 1-11 season with Brewster coaching?)

It's interesting to ponder: If Brewster had been fired at the end of last season and a highly experienced coach had taken over, what would the record be for this season?

 

[Ogee Ogilthorpe]

Totally agree

On nearly every thread about a potential candidate there are multiple posts about the next coach facing a huge rebuilding job or inheriting a mess. Perhaps, but just like many of us were too positive about going into the season with a lack of experience on defense, you could make the case that too many of us are too pessimistic now.

First off, I think with more experience on defense next year, Brewster would even do better. Add a coach who can coach up players, eliminate stupid mistakes and doesn't run the ball every down for 2 ypg, and you have a better team. By the way, teams like Florida and Texas are showing us how important experience is even for the big boys.

We also tend to forget that as bad and as inexperienced as Brewster was, he got us to two bowl games. And, Mason showed us that getting to low level bowl games is not a fluke here. Yes, they are lousy bowls, but what bowls did schools like Mich., Ill, ND and Purdue go to last year? This year, Texas and Georgia could struggle to make a bowl. These programs are hardly " a mess."

There is a valid debate about whether the current players are under coached, over hyped or both. We'll hopefully get part of the answer next season. But, I doubt the players are as totally untalented as they are playing right now.

Yes, the situation is bleak, but maybe not as bleak as our emotions make it feel. (Remember what happened after the last 1-11 season with Brewster coaching?)

It's interesting to ponder: If Brewster had been fired at the end of last season and a highly experienced coach had taken over, what would the record be for this season?

It would be easy to look at the record and throw your arms up and say, "The program is in a shambles, the end is near, etc."

Count me as one who doesn't think things are really in that bad of shape. Good grief, the team went to a bowl game the last two years, started off the '08 season 7-1. It's not like the new coach is taking over a program that hasn't won more than 4 games in a season for the last decade.

There is plenty of talent returning; RAW and UNDERDEVELOPED talent. Virtually everybody is coming back (yes, that can be good and bad).

This much I would say; the next coach will have a lot more to work with than Brewster did when he took over. If you need to any more proof of that, look at this year's roster and see how many impact 5th year seniors there are (which would be the last of Mason's guys).

Look at the depth chart. The best players are freshmen and sophomores for the most part.

The next coach has plenty to work with and I think we'll see that soon enough.

 

[GO4FAN65]

A case in point. Salem's last year was every bit as bad as this year is. The next year, when Holtz came in, there was a huge leap in performance. Even though the team's record was 4-7 the level of play was strikingly better. If we get a coach and staff that we need I fully expect that next year will look nothing similar to this year. There is talent here, but it needs work.

 

[Shielder]

Agree 100% with all 3 posts

 

[RodentRampage]

A case in point. Salem's last year was every bit as bad as this year is. The next year, when Holtz came in, there was a huge leap in performance. Even though the team's record was 4-7 the level of play was strikingly better. If we get a coach and staff that we need I fully expect that next year will look nothing similar to this year. There is talent here, but it needs work.

In 1983, Salem's last year, the Gophers scored 181 points, and gave up 518.
In 1984, Holtz's first year, the Gophers scored 194 points, and gave up 316.
In 1985, the Gophers scored 293, and gave up 240.

We made big strides from 83 to 84, mostly on defensem giving up 202 less points per game. We made further strides the next season, improving both offensive and defensive performance.

 

[ButchNashGuy]

In 1983, Salem's last year, the Gophers scored 181 points, and gave up 518.
In 1984, Holtz's first year, the Gophers scored 194 points, and gave up 316.
In 1985, the Gophers scored 293, and gave up 240.

We made big strides from 83 to 84, mostly on defensem giving up 202 less points per game. We made further strides the next season, improving both offensive and defensive performance.

This is what happens when bad programs hire winning coaches. Agree with these posts.

 

[gopherguy]

Stanford was 1-11 in 2006

On nearly every thread about a potential candidate there are multiple posts about the next coach facing a huge rebuilding job or inheriting a mess. Perhaps, but just like many of us were too positive about going into the season with a lack of experience on defense, you could make the case that too many of us are too pessimistic now.

First off, I think with more experience on defense next year, Brewster would even do better. Add a coach who can coach up players, eliminate stupid mistakes and doesn't run the ball every down for 2 ypg, and you have a better team. By the way, teams like Florida and Texas are showing us how important experience is even for the big boys.

We also tend to forget that as bad and as inexperienced as Brewster was, he got us to two bowl games. And, Mason showed us that getting to low level bowl games is not a fluke here. Yes, they are lousy bowls, but what bowls did schools like Mich., Ill, ND and Purdue go to last year? This year, Texas and Georgia could struggle to make a bowl. These programs are hardly " a mess."

There is a valid debate about whether the current players are under coached, over hyped or both. We'll hopefully get part of the answer next season. But, I doubt the players are as totally untalented as they are playing right now.

Yes, the situation is bleak, but maybe not as bleak as our emotions make it feel. (Remember what happened after the last 1-11 season with Brewster coaching?)

It's interesting to ponder: If Brewster had been fired at the end of last season and a highly experienced coach had taken over, what would the record be for this season?

I lived down the road from Stanford University for many years. Moved back to MN (after 20 years) last fall. Stanford was horrible for many of the years I was there. Yes, a few good years sprinkled in here and there, but by the time they fired Buddy Teevens, it was looking really really bad. Then Stanford hired Walt Harris, which at the time seemed like maybe a good idea. Yikes, it just as bad. The athletic department didn't wait long (just two years of Walt) and hired Harbaugh. Stanford was in the cellar, 1-11 in 2006. IMO their talent was worse than the Gophers is today, but now look at Stanford 4 years later. If the U hires the right coach (somebody like Harbaugh) the Gophers could be where Stanford is today 4 years from now.

 

[Rosemountian]

Last time MN won a national title they were just 2 seasons removed from a 1 win season.
Alabama won the national title just 2 seasons after they had lost to Louisiana Monroe.
Brewster followed up 1-11 with 2 bowl seasons.
It doesn't take as long to build a program as you think it should. I don't see MN winning the Big Ten or the National title in the next two years, but I do expect them to be fairly close to a .500 record next season...regardless of the coach.

 

[Plinnius]

I lived down the road from Stanford University for many years. Moved back to MN (after 20 years) last fall. Stanford was horrible for many of the years I was there. Yes, a few good years sprinkled in here and there, but by the time they fired Buddy Teevens, it was looking really really bad. Then Stanford hired Walt Harris, which at the time seemed like maybe a good idea. Yikes, it just as bad. The athletic department didn't wait long (just two years of Walt) and hired Harbaugh. Stanford was in the cellar, 1-11 in 2006. IMO their talent was worse than the Gophers is today, but now look at Stanford 4 years later. If the U hires the right coach (somebody like Harbaugh) the Gophers could be where Stanford is today 4 years from now.

So all we have to do is land an elite quarterback like Andrew Luck and we're set?

 

[diehard]

No things can't be as bad as they seem. We almost beat South Dakota, didn't we? And luckily NDSU isn't remaining on the schedule.

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[gopherguy]

So all we have to do is land an elite quarterback like Andrew Luck and we're set?

No. First the U has to hire the right coach. If that truly happens, then we're set.

 

[Hoop33]

Count me in! I thought maybe I was out of touch when I was wondering why everyone was calling it a total rebuild.

 

[Wahoo McDaniel]

Here's The Guy That Could Help Rebuild!

 

[Rouser4eVA]

thoughtful, well-articulated, un-emotional discourse

If you spend any amount of time on the boards here on Gopherhole, you are left with a seething mass of angst and feelings of ineptitude. So much of the conversation here is angrily-articulated opinion backed by the sad facts that represent the 2010 season of Gopher football. Kudos to Duluthguy for pointing out some high points about our program backed by substantiated, objective facts about the state of the program. It was a pleasant read, guys. Thanks.

 

[Ogee Ogilthorpe]

Last time MN won a national title they were just 2 seasons removed from a 1 win season.
Alabama won the national title just 2 seasons after they had lost to Louisiana Monroe.
Brewster followed up 1-11 with 2 bowl seasons.
It doesn't take as long to build a program as you think it should. I don't see MN winning the Big Ten or the National title in the next two years, but I do expect them to be fairly close to a .500 record next season...regardless of the coach.

This is the only part I don't totally agree with. I think the point of the thread wasn't that it doesn't take that long to rebuild.

The point, if I'm not mistaken, was that THIS situation isn't as much of a "total rebuild" as some make it out to be. I actually DO think it takes a LONG time to rebuild an 85-man roster. It's a huge undertaking that takes at least 3-4 years, if not 5, to get the players YOU want in YOUR system on board.


There is quality depth on the roster. No real playmakers right now, but quality depth to build on. A high profile coach could come in, take what's currently there, sprinkle in a few blue chippers attracted by the new coach's name and the allure of immediate playing time, and some surprising things could happen. It wouldn't surprise me one bit.

 

[Rosemountian]

Well think about what MN is rebuilding to. Rebuilding to 7-5 (which is as good of a record as the team has had the past 5 seasons) is not going to take 4-5 years...and it shouldn't.
Building towards a championship would take longer, but getting back to mediocrity should not be a 4 year process.

 

[bkrownd]

Well think about what MN is rebuilding to. Rebuilding to 7-5 (which is as good of a record as the team has had the past 5 seasons) is not going to take 4-5 years...and it shouldn't.
Building towards a championship would take longer, but getting back to mediocrity should not be a 4 year process.

How long did it take to get programs that were hapless for DECADES like Oregon State, Northwestern and Kansas State to contend for major conference championships? Not long at all. There are plenty of other bottom feeders that have also been turned around in a few short years, and the UofM should have obvious advantages over all of them. The sky is the limit - it just takes the right leadership.

 

[ShushPush]

This is a total rebuild

This post has been pulled by me as I regret calling the board a mob. Just another day when I didn't get enough sleep and getting grouchy.

 

[disco]

No, he's Canadian. He'd bring in Trestman as OC.

 

[year of the gopher]

Overall GH has become a vasillating mob between euphoria and dispair.

I would argue it's more about optimism and pessimism. I'm solidly in the optimism camp and I don't ever want to be anywhere else. He!!, I'm even going to Champaign this weekend! (though that's been planned for a while and is about the road trip as much as anything)

Seriously, I doubt we'll win another game this year, but there's always a chance. And next year? I carry no expectations other than to hope we get a great coach and start turning this ship back in the right direction.

 

[Duluthguy]

I guess it would be impossible to go 500 after being 1-11 the year before. Oh wait, we did that under Brewster.

 

[ShushPush]

I guess it would be impossible to go 500 after being 1-11 the year before. Oh wait, we did that under Brewster.

Love the optimism.

Remainder of my post deleted by me to be fair to the team and Joel Maturi.

 

[Seniorsmoke]

Love the optimism. Lot's of senior leadership that year. Won't see that depth of talent on the team for at least 5 years. Just not going to happen. Look at the demographics of the team. We are two years away from team depth, but the depth is heavy at too few positions. 5 years of mediocrity coming up unless we can develop talent very quickly, as in 2 to 3 years time. That would be a stunning display of leadership. Not even Nick Saban would be able to turn the ship around as quickly as that. Team chemistry, vision, style are all going to need to be developed as Maturi threw it all under the bus without having a plan for what to do after the termination other than to hire a coach. I don't think he has a vision of what the team identity should be or for that matter ever was as we have seen it drift back and forth under his leadership. We need a simple identity that can attract coaching candidates and players. They go hand in hand. By the way, why was recruiting halted. Isn't that a Duty of Good Faith and Fairness that Maturi should be demanding happen and not just halted out of what? Respect for the new guy, who is whom?

Fire Maturi now.

The 2006 Stanford Football Team was deadful in a sub-par Pac 10 that year. They finished 1-11 without much hope for the future. Insert new, young, hungry, (mostly unproven) coach and you see 4-8, 5-7, 8-5, and 8-1 so far this year. Turnaround in 2+ years. I don't think we can get that coach, but there is reason to believe it is at least possible to have that happen here. If the U is ready to get serious about providing resources to help the football program, all the more reason for optimism. And I am very aware at how bad this current team is.

 

[Ole]

Love the optimism. Lot's of senior leadership that year. Won't see that depth of talent on the team for at least 5 years. Just not going to happen. Look at the demographics of the team. We are two years away from team depth, but the depth is heavy at too few positions. 5 years of mediocrity coming up unless we can develop talent very quickly, as in 2 to 3 years time. That would be a stunning display of leadership. Not even Nick Saban would be able to turn the ship around as quickly as that. Team chemistry, vision, style are all going to need to be developed as Maturi threw it all under the bus without having a plan for what to do after the termination other than to hire a coach. I don't think he has a vision of what the team identity should be or for that matter ever was as we have seen it drift back and forth under his leadership. We need a simple identity that can attract coaching candidates and players. They go hand in hand. By the way, why was recruiting halted. Isn't that a Duty of Good Faith and Fairness that Maturi should be demanding happen and not just halted out of what? Respect for the new guy, who is whom?

Fire Maturi now.

2 years under any coach worth a damn can get this program back to a bowl. After that is where the cream rises to the top.
Maturi is a joke and a badger loving fool. He should have been canned after his first coaching screw up, but right now all we can hope is he's been taken out of the offical hiring process.

As for the program, the AD should allow a coach to fully develop and execute his personal plan.
Once hired, a coach is best left to work tirelessly unimpeded, the AD's job is to provide resources and support and stay out of the way.
That is why recruiting has halted and the current interim coaches know they will not be retained.
The next guy is going to bring a style and system unique to his personality and scheme, heck our current commits might not fit at all. It happened in 07', it will probably happen again, but with more time a coach can sell his arrival at a program as a new beginning to recruits and put together a class of top talent right away, and surely for the season after. Impact guys could very well be signed this year and certainly will be next year, increasing the talent pool and team depth with the new schemes and style in mind.
Bottom line: Gotta get the right guy in here and let him work his mojo.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

Love the optimism. Lot's of senior leadership that year. Won't see that depth of talent on the team for at least 5 years. Just not going to happen. Look at the demographics of the team. We are two years away from team depth, but the depth is heavy at too few positions. 5 years of mediocrity coming up unless we can develop talent very quickly, as in 2 to 3 years time. That would be a stunning display of leadership. Not even Nick Saban would be able to turn the ship around as quickly as that. Team chemistry, vision, style are all going to need to be developed as Maturi threw it all under the bus without having a plan for what to do after the termination other than to hire a coach. I don't think he has a vision of what the team identity should be or for that matter ever was as we have seen it drift back and forth under his leadership. We need a simple identity that can attract coaching candidates and players. They go hand in hand. By the way, why was recruiting halted. Isn't that a Duty of Good Faith and Fairness that Maturi should be demanding happen and not just halted out of what? Respect for the new guy, who is whom?

Fire Maturi now.

We actually had very little SR. leadership that season. We only played 4 Srs much at all (VanDeSteeg, D. Hightower, S. Davis, and Jack Simmons). Conversely, our SR class will actually be pretty deep next season (G. Tinsley, McKnight, Lair, Kirksey, Stoudemire, Edwards, Eskridge, Bennett and Jacobs). I'm not saying we will or won't be .500 next season, but it won't be because the 2011 team has less SR. leadership than the 2008 team.

 

[gopherfield]

Not only should everyone be more experienced on the Defense, but we get Beal in the middle, and can Maresh come back next year, or one more year?

 

[Silvio]

Not only should everyone be more experienced on the Defense, but we get Beal in the middle, and can Maresh come back next year, or one more year?

I wouldn't hold you breath on Maresh. That equation will totally change depending on the new coach, who knows if he will want to come/be wanted back.

 

[Rosemountian]

Who is drinking the koolaid now. We don't even have the new coach and people are predicting a .500 team next year.

Who predicted that? I said I will be disappointed if the team is not close to a .500 record. 4-8 with 4 close losses is close to .500 in my mind.

 

[Rosemountian]

Most coaches who win Big Ten Titles do it within the first 5 years of being at a program and this holds true whether you are talking about Purdue and Northwestern or Ohio State and Michigan.

 

[60's Guy]

4 wins is almost easy next year if you look at the schedule. And the following year is even more optimistic. But of course I think Gray can be a great quarterback based on what I've seen. And I think Stoudermire could be Percy Harvin like if they'd use him to fit his talents. Lair, McKnight and some other emerging receiver to go along with the running back the new guy discovers and offensively we are styling. Defensively, if somebody can make them stand in the right place we'll be twice as good. There are a ton of guys out there coming back on defense. They are athletes.