Realization

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Imagine Flips first day on the job...1st thing he does is write the check to cover Tubby's buyout.
 

Dr.Don said:
AD Norwood Teague, right now, will have more success finding donors to buy out Tubby than he can for a new practice facility. Big bucks have a way of filtering to the biggest need, and right now, even you good old Dr.Don, submits to defeat, and it is time for a change in our basketball leadership.

I supported Tubby because he was our coach. I know when to flip-flop. I submit.
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Dr Don - good for you. Are you flip flopping or FLIP flopping? :) Almost all of us are flip flopping right with you Don, I have been against firing Tubby until these last two games but I have been concerned with his coaching for at least two years. The injury excuses kept me hanging in there. Not anymore.
 

BleedGopher said:
Totally agree, it does suck. And if we make a move Teague and the fan base will need thick skin for a news cycle or two. We will get hammered nationally and applauded locally if a move is made.

The safe move is keeping Tubby and forcing a staff shake-up, the bold move is making a change in leadership. We will learn a lot about our new AD in the next month or so.

Go Gophers!!
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Unless the team misses the Tournament and makes the decision more obvious, I do not envy Teague's predicament at the end of this season. Explaining firing a coach who's won a national championship, will likely end up in the hall of fame and who just got you to the Dance - that's not going to be easy to do, even if you've watched these putrid games and even if it's equally hard to imagine bringing him back next year.
 

I'll go out on a limb: Tubby is gone next year and the actual payment to Tubby will be less than 2.5 mill.
 

mnsports1 said:
Imagine Flips first day on the job...1st thing he does is write the check to cover Tubby's buyout.
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Seriously mnsports- I don't think he'd do it quite like that, but I think he might coach season one for basically nothing which would accomplish the same thing. If he were to do that it would be national news in a very cool way and do a lot for the U of M and recruiting. Think of it on ESPN: "Saunders to coach Gophers for $1 for 2013-2014!" What recruit wouldn't be impressed with that level of commitment?
 


jmag21 said:
Why do people think Flip would be such a rock star coach? He wasn't an exceptional NBA coach, he doesn't have recent experience with the rough and tumble recruiting game, and he's been out of it for a few years. Why is he all of a sudden the savior? It's not like he's Tony Dungy.
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As one who would take Flip today in a heartbeat, I'll say that I have no idea whether he'd be a "rock star coach." But I think he would do well, and I don't think we could attract anyone who is guaranteed to be any better.

I disagree that he wasn't a good NBA coach. In Minnesota he had Garnett plus nobody. When he finally had a few more pieces, he went to the conference final. In Detroit he took over a team that had plateaued and advanced to the conference final three times (I think). In Washington he had no chance. His time away from the college game is a concern, but he does have seven years as a D-I assistant, including the U. He's smart enough to know he needs some recruiting help.

If Teague can pull a rabbit out of his hat and do better, awesome. But I don't see that happening, and I'd take Flip as the best we can attract.
 

bga1 said:
Dr Don - good for you. Are you flip flopping or FLIP flopping? :) Almost all of us are flip flopping right with you Don, I have been against firing Tubby until these last two games but I have been concerned with his coaching for at least two years. The injury excuses kept me hanging in there. Not anymore.
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Beej, I have never advocated for Flip Saunders nor any other name for our next coach. Why not? I don't know enough about potential future coaches to make a recommendation. And I will not name drop, just to sound intelligent while actually sounding stupid. My flip-flop position is simply my feelings for Tubby Smith leading our Gophers.

I turn any and all future decisions over to Norwood Teague. That is why he is getting the big bucks. Oh, and BTW, if you don't think President Kaler is squirming in his hemorrhoids along with Woody trying to figure out what is best for the U of M, then realization is gone.
 

I'm conflicted on how to handle Tubby. First off, firing a coach sucks, and is a huge embarrassment and black eye for a program. His buyout is large, and we are then starting over with a new coach. Everyone who wants a new coach, I'd like you to answer this: who do we end up with, and is their resume as good as Smith's was 6 years ago? Shaka Smart turned down Illinois last year, I doubt he's coming here to follow his old AD. Flip's T-Wolves teams were perennial 8 seeds, very marginal and they could never get over the hump, similar to Smith's Gophers. His Pistons team was loaded with talent and he never achieved the levels that Larry Brown did and got fired. He then ended up in Washington and got fired quickly. Everyone loves Flip because he's a great guy, knows the area, was a Gopher, etc, etc. but I'm not sure he'd be an improvement.

Bottom line, I still want to see how the team responds the last 4 games. I'd rather keep a coach who has had marginal success and see what's needed to get this team to the next level, than to fire him and blindly start from the ground up with no assurances that things will be better.
 

John Galt said:
I'm conflicted on how to handle Tubby. First off, firing a coach sucks, and is a huge embarrassment and black eye for a program. His buyout is large, and we are then starting over with a new coach. Everyone who wants a new coach, I'd like you to answer this: who do we end up with, and is their resume as good as Smith's was 6 years ago? Shaka Smart turned down Illinois last year, I doubt he's coming here to follow his old AD. Flip's T-Wolves teams were perennial 8 seeds, very marginal and they could never get over the hump, similar to Smith's Gophers. His Pistons team was loaded with talent and he never achieved the levels that Larry Brown did and got fired. He then ended up in Washington and got fired quickly. Everyone loves Flip because he's a great guy, knows the area, was a Gopher, etc, etc. but I'm not sure he'd be an improvement.

Bottom line, I still want to see how the team responds the last 4 games. I'd rather keep a coach who has had marginal success and see what's needed to get this team to the next level, than to fire him and blindly start from the ground up with no assurances that things will be better.
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And I am sure that you will continue to drive with a flat tire in hopes that the next 4 miles of driving will change things when you have no assurances that the spare is better. Now I get it, John Galt.
 



John Galt said:
I'm conflicted on how to handle Tubby. First off, #1firing a coach sucks, and is a huge embarrassment and black eye for a program. His buyout is large, and we are then starting over with a new coach. Everyone who wants a new coach, I'd like you to answer this:#2 who do we end up with, and is their resume as good as Smith's was 6 years ago? Shaka Smart turned down Illinois last year, I doubt he's coming here to follow his old AD. Flip's T-Wolves teams were perennial 8 seeds, very marginal and they could never get over the hump, similar to Smith's Gophers. His Pistons team was loaded with talent and he never achieved the levels that Larry Brown did and got fired. He then ended up in Washington and got fired quickly. Everyone loves Flip because he's a great guy, knows the area, was a Gopher, etc, etc. but I'm not sure he'd be an improvement.

Bottom line, I still want to see how the team responds the last 4 games. #3 I'd rather keep a coach who has had marginal success and see what's needed to get this team to the next level, than to fire him and blindly start from the ground up with no assurances that things will be better.
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#1 Firing a coach who has not finished above 6th place or 500 in conference is not an embarrassment. Keeping him and paying him 2 mill per yr would be.

#2 We have an AD in place that has success at doing that. Dump this woe are we mentality.

#3 How is keeping this coach going to help you see what is needed? It should be clear by now. You could hire/name any coach in the country and there would be no assurances. Such is life in big-time athletics. This is not the time or place for amateurs.
 

station19 said:
#1 Firing a coach who has not finished above 6th place or 500 in conference is not an embarrassment. Keeping him and paying him 2 mill per yr would be.

#2 We have an AD in place that has success at doing that. Dump this woe are we mentality.

#3 How is keeping this coach going to help you see what is needed? It should be clear by now. You could hire/name any coach in the country and there would be no assurances. Such is life in big-time athletics. This is not the time or place for amateurs.
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Which is exactly why people like you and me, plus numerous others, are here on GopherHole. Right?
 

Dr.Don said:
Which is exactly why people like you and me, plus numerous others, are here on GopherHole. Right?
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Which is why we shouldn't listen to people who say; we won't be able to get a good coach because I can't think of any that will take the job.
 

station19 said:
The last no-name coach Teague hired seemed to do okay.

Let's not underestimate the 'costs' of keeping Tubby.
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I agree that is the crux of the issue. Paying a a $2.5 million dollar buyout may suck but it probably won't suck as bad as the alternative. The wheels have come off this thing so badly that keeping things the way they are could do some serious damage.
 



station19 said:
#1 Firing a coach who has not finished above 6th place or 500 in conference is not an embarrassment. Keeping him and paying him 2 mill per yr would be.

#2 We have an AD in place that has success at doing that. Dump this woe are we mentality.

#3 How is keeping this coach going to help you see what is needed? It should be clear by now. You could hire/name any coach in the country and there would be no assurances. Such is life in big-time athletics. This is not the time or place for amateurs.
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I'm not going to defend Tubby because the last month has been rough and he's significantly underachieved in his tenure at the U. My point is that if we look at each season in its entirety, it's not Dan Monson or Tim Brewster type failure. It was only 1 week ago today that we beat Wisconsin and the team was dancing in the locker room. Things can change quickly in basketball and I like I said in the previous thread, I'm going to give him the remaining 4 games to turn things around and see if he can make the tourney.
 

First names that come to mind when firing a head coach are Lickliter and Brewster. Has there ever been a coach fired after making the NCAA tournament?
 


Johnnyboy18 said:
First names that come to mind when firing a head coach are Lickliter and Brewster. Has there ever been a coach fired after making the NCAA tournament?
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Yes, Clem Haskins.
 




BleedGopher said:
The Badgers fired Brad Soderberg after a 9-7 Big Ten season and a first round NCAA loss. They hired Bo Ryan and the rest is history.

Go Gophers!!
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Let me specify a coach for more than a year that is fired for non cheating and or abusive terms.
 

jamalo said:
Wow, Tubby has definitely jumped the shark if his staunchest supporter, Dr. Don, says it's time for a change.
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We're still waiting for the returns from the Parski Precinct.
 

Soderberg/Orr

BleedGopher said:
The Badgers fired Brad Soderberg after a 9-7 Big Ten season and a first round NCAA loss. They hired Bo Ryan and the rest is history.

Go Gophers!!
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Soderberg was the interim coach after Dick Bennett quit, so I don't think he was "fired".

One coach that comes to mind is Louis Orr who got fired by Seton Hall after making the 2006 NCAA Toureny. They have not been back since.
 

John Galt said:
I'd rather keep a coach who has had marginal success and see what's needed to get this team to the next level, than to fire him and blindly start from the ground up with no assurances that things will be better.
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Blindly starting from the ground up would be picking a new coach out of the phone book.
 

Another one I thought of was Bob Huggins, Cincinnati. He was given the choice of resigning or be fired.
 

No, it's worse...

John Galt said:
My point is that if we look at each season in its entirety, it's not Dan Monson or Tim Brewster type failure.
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... because Tubby inherited better/more talented players (from Monson) than he has managed to recruit and the overall parity (read: weakness) of the NCAA teams across the nation (outside the BIG) this season means he is blowing a HUGE opportunity to make a deep run in the 2013 tournament.

The fact that Teague actually extended Tubby's contract with such horrendous terms ($2.5 M buy out and no fire until end of season clause) makes me question the new AD's guts and basketball acumen. He put the program in a position that it will be a good decade before it can recover from the Orlando Smith era.

These young men all have basketball skills/potential, they just lack a "teaching" coach with the type of leadership skills that will allow them to develop their strengths, reduce their weaknesses and maintain the type of resilience (heart) to work through the adversity of a loss and play with the minds of a champion. A coach who season after season, has no discernible offense scheme and seems clueless as to how to break a zone defense (or effectively teach his own team how to play one--key to knowing how to break it).

Really hoping these guys can find something collectively within themselves that will allow them to rally in these final games and win the BIG tournament. They are talented enough against this season's competition, they just lack leadership and confidence (from their coaching staff). Don't know who on this team can step up and fill that void but it needs to happen soon. And Tubby needs to do the honorable thing and just resign, leaving his big buy out money on the table so the AD has a chance to salvage this program.
 

correction: What they have is a coach who season after season...
 

Dr.Don said:
AD Norwood Teague, right now, will have more success finding donors to buy out Tubby than he can for a new practice facility. Big bucks have a way of filtering to the biggest need, and right now, even you good old Dr.Don, submits to defeat, and it is time for a change in our basketball leadership.

I supported Tubby because he was our coach. I know when to flip-flop. I submit.
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Damn! Dr. Don, tapping out!
 


I'll support who ever the coach is. I don't think Teague will fire anyone this year because he has facilities to worry about.

P.S. I officially hate Dr.Don he is a trader and a complete embarrassment to this board.
 

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