Reading between the lines

[Gold Rush]

The Gophers are really going after the TE position, recently getting a verbal out of Jameson Geers, but extending offers for a couple others, including Joe Alt from Totino Grace who will probably end up at Iowa. I think the new offense is going to be featuring the TE as a receiver a bit more and you can see them going after some good ones. This isn't going to be just another tackle for blocking but you can see they are trying to get kids who can be receivers as well.

I applaud this move. You can see what a devastating weapon the TE's can be as a receiving threat and Iowa and Penn St. both used them with great effect vs. the Gophers. We have had some good ones over the years but I think this is going to be a new weapon for us next year. This might be a big year for Brevyn Spann-Ford but I think everyone wants to see a little more of Bryce Witham out there after what he did vs. Auburn!!!

I don't want to see that offense tinkered TOO much though as I think it was pretty good last year, but I am looking for the TE's running some routes next year and beyond.

 

[pharmacygopher]

I laughed when I saw this on reddit

 

[Gold Rush]

Haha -- well using the TE to block didn't work out too badly for us last year. When we had that healthy extra lineman in there, it was a huge asset to the running game and it's tough to complain when the offense was moving pretty well. Still, having that TE who can catch the ball can really help pick up those 3rd and 7's. It also takes a little pressure off the WR's because if they have to respect the TE, it can leave our WR's with single coverage. I would love to see our TE's catching some passes next year!!

 

[hungan1]

The thing is, the TE doesn't have to have a gawdy set of stats. Just let them be deadly when the moment comes. A good example is Iowa's utilization of their TE.

A window into the possibility are the two critical catches by Bryce Witham in the Outback Bowl. Very unexpected, but deadly.

 

[Mitu]

Haha -- well using the TE to block didn't work out too badly for us last year. When we had that healthy extra lineman in there, it was a huge asset to the running game and it's tough to complain when the offense was moving pretty well. Still, having that TE who can catch the ball can really help pick up those 3rd and 7's. It also takes a little pressure off the WR's because if they have to respect the TE, it can leave our WR's with single coverage. I would love to see our TE's catching some passes next year!!

So, I'm probably missing something, but what is the benefit of using a TE instead of an extra OL to block when your offense never passes to them? Seems like if you don’t have the threat of them being a receiver, all you’ve got is a blocker who isn’t as effective as a normal OL.

 

[Gold Rush]

T

So, I'm probably missing something, but what is the benefit of using a TE instead of an extra OL to block when your offense never passes to them? Seems like if you don’t have the threat of them being a receiver, all you’ve got is a blocker who isn’t as effective as a normal OL.

This is what I am talking about - it looks like we are bringing in some athletic players who can receive as well as block. It looks like we may be going to more passing to the TE - this can be a huge weapon the defense will have to defend.

 

[Veritas]

Didn't I read last spring that Spann-Ford would be the big new impact on the O?

 

[Mitu]

T

This is what I am talking about - it looks like we are bringing in some athletic players who can receive as well as block. It looks like we may be going to more passing to the TE - this can be a huge weapon the defense will have to defend.

Agree, I’m just wondering why we spent most of the year using TEs to block instead of trotting out another OL (7 man OL, since we used a 6 man OL+TE quite a bit anyway).

 

[HoustonTXGopher]

A nice tight end would be a great edition to our offense. However, tight ends don't usually take it to the house from anywhere on the field like we saw Bateman and Johnson do this year.

WR > TE

 

[highwayman]

A nice tight end would be a great edition to our offense. However, tight ends don't usually take it to the house from anywhere on the field like we saw Bateman and Johnson do this year.

WR > TE

This. Which Gopher wide receivers would the "experts" like to see get less looks next year?

Only 7 of the top 50 receivers in receptions in the B1G were TE. 5 of the 7 were the second leading receiver on their team. Three of them: MSU, Nebby, and Purdue had SUCH outstanding seasons. Autman-Bell had more receptions than all but 4 of the TEs in the conference.

I would be very shocked if any Gopher TE gets 25 receptions next season. I would be shocked if they totaled more than that as well.

There are only so many completions to go around in a season. The tight end certainly helps in various situations. To say the Minnesota offense is missing something is ridiculous.

Big Ten Receiving

Please feel free to check my math.

 

[A_Slab_of_Bacon]

I'm not opposed to throwing to the TE, but there is a fever for passing to the TE on the internet sometimes that seems to border on absurdity...


I like it too but there are limits to what it can do for you (compared to throwing to WRs...) and if you're OL struggles... even more limits.

 

[Gophergrandpa]

Tight ends were uncovered and wide open all year, shallow. Tanner went deeper, looking past the tight ends, throwing into some coverage, because TJ and Bateman and CAB had the ability to haul in well thrown balls—and Tanner lays it tight in there. A few throws underneath to tight ends, however, would loosen up coverage on the WRs. As it is, teams didn’t bother to cover our TEs. Remember Paulson drop in Nebbie game? No one within ten yards of him. If you ignore the TEs you are essentially, IMHO, playing offense with one hand tied behind your back. Given our WR talent, this method works fine against teams over which we have a talent advantage, and against teams with talent that are poorly coached (Nebbie). But it puts you at a distinct disadvantage against very talented defenses that are also well coached (Iowa and Wisconsin) as to our tendencies. Those teams smother our WRs. You need other outlets in the exceptionally tough defensive matches.

 

[John Galt]

Alt is being recruited as an OT, not a TE. We are done recruiting TEs for this class with the addition of Geers.

Alt’s dad played for Iowa when Ferentz was the OL coach. The chances are about 99% he will be a Hawkeye, it would be a major coup for PJ if we landed him.

This board’s obsession with throwing to the TEs, after we just had the best passing season in history with two 1000 yard receivers, is truly one of the most bizarre fixations I’ve ever seen.

 

[highwayman]

Tight ends were uncovered and wide open all year, shallow. Tanner went deeper, looking past the tight ends, throwing into some coverage, because TJ and Bateman and CAB had the ability to haul in well thrown balls—and Tanner lays it tight in there. A few throws underneath to tight ends, however, would loosen up coverage on the WRs. As it is, teams didn’t bother to cover our TEs. Remember Paulson drop in Nebbie game? No one within ten yards of him. If you ignore the TEs you are essentially, IMHO, playing offense with one hand tied behind your back. Given our WR talent, this method works fine against teams over which we have a talent advantage, and against teams with talent that are poorly coached (Nebbie). But it puts you at a distinct disadvantage against very talented defenses that are talented and well coached (Iowa and Wisconsin). Those teams smother our WRs. You need other outlets in the exceptionally tough defensive matches.

Nope.

Alt is being recruited as an OT, not a TE. We are done recruiting TEs for this class with the addition of Geers.

Alt’s dad played for Iowa when Ferentz was the OL coach. The chances are about 99% he will be a Hawkeye, it would be a major coup for PJ if we landed him.

This board’s obsession with throwing to the TEs, after we just had the best passing season in history with two 1000 yard receivers, is truly one of the most bizarre fixations I’ve ever seen.

Yup.

 

[Mitu]

Alt is being recruited as an OT, not a TE. We are done recruiting TEs for this class with the addition of Geers.

Alt’s dad played for Iowa when Ferentz was the OL coach. The chances are about 99% he will be a Hawkeye, it would be a major coup for PJ if we landed him.

This board’s obsession with throwing to the TEs, after we just had the best passing season in history with two 1000 yard receivers, is truly one of the most bizarre fixations I’ve ever seen.

I suspect that this board is also trying to figure out how to replace the production and skills of an All B1G first team receiver, one of the greatest in our history.

Dynamic TEs can be a significant difference maker in any offense. They create significant mismatches in coverage, loosen up coverage for your WRs, and provide increased optionality for creative blocking schemes.

 

[Cedar Rapids Gopher]

I just think if you are a TE to chip on some 3rd downs. Then go out for a first down it gives Morgan one more option to get a first.

 

[RememberMurray]

"This board’s obsession with throwing to the TEs, after we just had the best passing season in history with two 1000 yard receivers, is truly one of the most bizarre fixations I’ve ever seen."

-------

One of the most bizarre?

It's beyond bizarre. It's absurd. It is comical, to the point of hilarity.

I still remember listening to the post-game call in show after a big Vikings win in '98. This was the year the Purple lit up scoreboards with Randall Cunningham throwing bombs to their famous "Three Deep" trio of Moss, Carter and Reed. The Vikings had just buried another opponent under an avalanche of dramatic big-play aerial TDs.

The caller asked plaintively in his Minnesooooooh-taaaah accent, "Why don't they ever throw to the tight end?"

 

[Gold Rush]

Tight ends were uncovered and wide open all year, shallow. Tanner went deeper, looking past the tight ends, throwing into some coverage, because TJ and Bateman and CAB had the ability to haul in well thrown balls—and Tanner lays it tight in there. A few throws underneath to tight ends, however, would loosen up coverage on the WRs. As it is, teams didn’t bother to cover our TEs. Remember Paulson drop in Nebbie game? No one within ten yards of him. If you ignore the TEs you are essentially, IMHO, playing offense with one hand tied behind your back. Given our WR talent, this method works fine against teams over which we have a talent advantage, and against teams with talent that are poorly coached (Nebbie). But it puts you at a distinct disadvantage against very talented defenses that are talented and well coached (Iowa and Wisconsin). Those teams smother our WRs. You need other outlets in the exceptionally tough defensive matches.

THIS is the best response that I received. No one is saying we should alter an offense that was highly successful last year, but a few tweaks could really help us. First off, you need the personnel to do it and I think Spann-Ford over the middle could be a huge weapon for us and he would take pressure off teams doubling Bateman (and you know they will!) as well as Autman-Bell. This does not need to be 7 passes a game, but a few more could really open it up, too. As gophergrandpa stated, we are at a distinct disadvantage against the talented defenses such as Iowa and Wisconsin who will smother the wide receivers.

Look at how the TE's are used by teams such as Penn St. and Iowa and you will see how valuable of a weapon they can be. The sophisticated pro teams all want a TE who can receive as well as block and stretch the defense. Whenever it was 3rd and 7 you could pretty much count on Jason Witten on converting and moving the chains for the Cowboys.

It doesn't really matter what our opinions are - I think the Gophers are going to move toward passing to their TE's and they told recruit TE Geers that was their plan. I still expect to see the extra offensive lineman look that worked so well for them, but I look for the new offensive coordinators Sanford and Simon to utilize the TE's for receiving a little more - in fact I think you can count on it.

 

[John Galt]

You want us to use the TE more so we can be like Iowa? Really? Iowa is drooling over our receivers and wishing they had guys with the big play ability of Johnson and Bateman. Our offense was far better than Iowa’s this year - yet you wish our TE use would have replicated theirs?

 

[John Galt]

I suspect that this board is also trying to figure out how to replace the production and skills of an All B1G first team receiver, one of the greatest in our history.

Dynamic TEs can be a significant difference maker in any offense. They create significant mismatches in coverage, loosen up coverage for your WRs, and provide increased optionality for creative blocking schemes.

And as we learned this year, having 3 dynamic WRs and a great QB can lead to the all-time greatest offensive season even if TEs are neglected.

 

[PitinoFan]

After we have a few more games where TEs make a few key grabs, like we saw in the Outback Bowl, these people will probably pretend they never had some of these opinions. Until then, I don’t think we’re going to find any middle ground. Unless they lied to Geers and his family, the TE will be a bigger part of the offense in the near future.

 

[highwayman]

THIS is the best response that I received.

That "Tight ends were uncovered and wide open all year, shallow."?

Did you guys actually follow 2019 Minnesota football, or watch any games? I guess not. Until people actually follow football from this era, I guess they can still hope for an offense that was run in the 1980s. Man, that Senser and Jordan were good.

I'm not saying the TE is unimportant. Without two critical catches vs Auburn the Gophers likely don't win. Without the TE staying in and blocking, Minnesota doesn't likely have a dynamic running game and certainly Tanner Morgan gets destroyed on many, many plays. There is no double 1000 WR. Without the current scheme, Witham doesn't get open twice.

I wouldn't trade our scheme for Iowa's or Pedo U's in a heartbeat. Pukey offenses.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

Agree, I’m just wondering why we spent most of the year using TEs to block instead of trotting out another OL (7 man OL, since we used a 6 man OL+TE quite a bit anyway).

Because you still have to account for the TE, you would likely bring in another OL if we brought in a seventh OL.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

I suspect that this board is also trying to figure out how to replace the production and skills of an All B1G first team receiver, one of the greatest in our history.

Dynamic TEs can be a significant difference maker in any offense. They create significant mismatches in coverage, loosen up coverage for your WRs, and provide increased optionality for creative blocking schemes.

There are many different ways to have an effective offense. One of them involves getting the TE into the passing game a lot and I have nothing against that but our way last year was also incredibly effective. Our scheme last year was the best in my life time as a Gopher fan - - and it wasn't even close.

This feels a little bit like us clamoring for a running QB. They can also be hard to stop. Why don't we have a running QB?

 

[Pompous Elitist]

Morgan to Johnson/Bateman was a great combination. Historic program production.

That said, the team struggled to move the chains and get into the end zone at key junctures during the season contributing to losses vs Iowa and Wisconsin. Those were really good, elite defenses and were a bit better than our elite offense those days, pressuring Morgan, blowing up the line even with number advantages at times. Perhaps a very slightly different focus or scheme would have helped Morgan. Maybe not. Nothing wrong with always trying to get an extra edge. That’s what it’s all about, right?

With the loss of Johnson to the NFL if personnel allows and as we saw in the Outback Bowl it is exceedingly helpful to have a mismatch, or an uncovered player, or a safety valve at times. Maybe BSF or Witham or Paulson can be that occasionally unholstered weapon. We’ll see.

 

[short ornery norwegian]

I don't think anyone is saying the Gophers should be throwing 10 passes a game to the TE's.

But - we are saying that one or two completions to TE's can be very important in the right situation.

On a 3rd-and-8, if your options are a 10-yd pass to a TE, or a 25-yard pass downfield to a WR, the pass to the TE is not as splashy, but it moves the sticks and keeps the drive going.

All we are saying is give the QB that option. If the TE is not open, obviously, you are not going to throw it to the TE. If a WR is wide open 20 yards down the field, let it fly.

but, if the WR is covered, and a TE is available as a check-down, at least give the QB that option.

And - the Gophers have six OL returning with experience. Maybe - just maybe - they will not need to keep the TE in as a blocker quite as often.

Bottom line - throwing to the TE is not subtraction - it is addition to an already good offense.

 

[Pompous Elitist]

There are many different ways to have an effective offense. One of them involves getting the TE into the passing game a lot and I have nothing against that but our way last year was also incredibly effective. Our scheme last year was the best in my life time as a Gopher fan - - and it wasn't even close.

This feels a little bit like us clamoring for a running QB. They can also be hard to stop. Why don't we have a running QB?

Well, if all things were equal would love to have that! Morgan is an elite passer but if he was a bruising runner...well then we have Burrow.

PJF’s recruiting has been all over the place in that regard. He was recruiting Maverick McIvor and the the kid from Omaha that signed with TCU, both dual threat. Bachmaier has some running ability. Clark - don’t believe so. Kramer - seems to be. Athan - ?

I‘ll take Morgan’s incredible accuracy downfield any day over most QBs...

 

[John Galt]

I wonder if Chicago Bulls fans in the 90s were clamoring for more shots by Luc Longley and their centers? I’m sure fans were upset because everyone knows having a more diversified offense helps and it would have been nice to get some higher percentage shots in the paint?

Or maybe the Patriots all these years should have been running the ball more in order to have a more balanced offense?

 

[John Galt]

I don't think anyone is saying the Gophers should be throwing 10 passes a game to the TE's.

But - we are saying that one or two completions to TE's can be very important in the right situation.

On a 3rd-and-8, if your options are a 10-yd pass to a TE, or a 25-yard pass downfield to a WR, the pass to the TE is not as splashy, but it moves the sticks and keeps the drive going.

All we are saying is give the QB that option. If the TE is not open, obviously, you are not going to throw it to the TE. If a WR is wide open 20 yards down the field, let it fly.

but, if the WR is covered, and a TE is available as a check-down, at least give the QB that option.

And - the Gophers have six OL returning with experience. Maybe - just maybe - they will not need to keep the TE in as a blocker quite as often.

Bottom line - throwing to the TE is not subtraction - it is addition to an already good offense.

If only Ciarrocca knew this, right? Maybe you can meet up for coffee and explain to him that TEs are allowed to catch passes?

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

Well, if all things were equal would love to have that! Morgan is an elite passer but if he was a bruising runner...well then we have Burrow.

PJF’s recruiting has been all over the place in that regard. He was recruiting Maverick McIvor and the the kid from Omaha that signed with TCU, both dual threat. Bachmaier has some running ability. Clark - don’t believe so. Kramer - seems to be. Athan - ?

I‘ll take Morgan’s incredible accuracy downfield any day over most QBs...

Well yeah, all things equal.

If we were able to protect Morgan just as well with 5 OL as on max protect (all things equal), everyone would be all on board with doing more.

Unfortunately, it's usually give and take a bit.