Ranking the BCS coaching jobs

[scools12]

Why do you have your stipulations for Group #3 as "schools that have made a Final Four and/or won their conference in at least the last 15-20 years, or have some other distinct advantage", and include Minnesota, when it has none of those 3 things?

every post by howeda7's that have I read with regards to the Minnesota job is that he thinks it is a Top 30 job reagardless of his stipulations.

IMO it realistically is in the middle of the pack of tier 4 #36-56.

 

[GopherinPhilly]

Seems to me that only a few schools are historic game changers...North Carolina, Kentucky, UCLA, Kansas would be my elite...Duke and Indiana are one coach wonders and should be included with the second tier.

After the elite I see about 20 schools that are top teir programs and about 40 also rans including MN where the only difference between them is coaches preference to where he wants to live and work.

Truthfully I would include Ohio State in the elite category before Indiana or Duke because they have done it with multiple coaches in multiple eras. But I think they need to win a few more championships first. Duke is like FSU in football...only done it with one coach and until they do it with somebody not named Bowden they wont be an elite program. Whoever replaced Coach K can make Duke an Elite by winning some championships. Anyone remember Duke pre Coach K?

 

[fryguy22]

Why do you have your stipulations for Group #3 as "schools that have made a Final Four and/or won their conference in at least the last 15-20 years, or have some other distinct advantage", and include Minnesota, when it has none of those 3 things?

1997 is in the last 15-20 years. It happened, I remember it.

 

[dpodoll68]

1997 is in the last 15-20 years. It happened, I remember it.

Your eyes told you that you were seeing a legitimate, non-cheating team playing those games.

Your eyes were deceived.

 

[tjgopher]

Anyone remember Duke pre Coach K?

Sure, I remember Duke playing in the National Title game two years before Coach K got to Durham.

That said, I agree with your post. I think Indiana is below OSU right now as a job I'd want as a coach. Totally agree on the Top 4-5, followed by another 20 or so, followed by another 40 or so. That's exactly what I was trying to say earlier about No. 25-50, but you said it much more succinctly and better.

 

[GoFerit]

Tradition becomes a factor if and only if it is translated into recruiting, financial support, etc. Duke has achieved the winning status/tradition as a basketball school that currently helps greatly in all the aspects including recruting and finance. The successor of Coach K will very likely have the luxury of great exposure and strong recruiting nationally with the Duke brand, and the money won't dry up. Those are the most important factors (in addition to the coach's abilities) to keep a program rolling. Few coaches can resist the allure.

Indiana has been down. Nevertheless, it still has a huge potential in recruiting with money into the program. It is the basketball school in a basketball state. Coaches should treat it as a top priority though it is a high pressure job. (Though things can change in a few years if IU continues to be a bottom-feeder for a while, a capable coach will have a much easier time to "rebuild" the program.)

OSU is a football school. If the basketball program does not produce for a little while, the level of interest and therefore financial support can drop fairly quickly. It will not be as easy to rebuild the program. Not as good a job as IU in my opinion.

Again, it is about attractiveness of a job. It can change pretty quickly. So, I can understand why some of you think OSU is a better job than IU.

 

[mnboiler]

You read the part about the $40 million, right?

A. Purdue is spending $80 million on a similar project.

B. Let's not kid ourselves, half of that $40 million is going to the wrestling team.

C. The amount of B1G basketball talent is very small so you are going to have to leave the state to recruit most of the time.

D. As previously stated there have been reports of tumbleweeds blowing though Carver-Hawkeye during basketball games, but they are unconfirmed because no fans were there to see them.

 

[howeda7]

every post by howeda7's that have I read with regards to the Minnesota job is that he thinks it is a Top 30 job reagardless of his stipulations.

IMO it realistically is in the middle of the pack of tier 4 #36-56.

Top 35 now that I actually see them listed out, but yes. If you choose to abide by the NCAA's requirement to erase things that happened from your memory, that's fine. To each his own. I'd say the entire decade of the 2000's was the punishment, not make believe lossses. I'm sure Kentucky fans are being proactive and erasing the Final Four run that just ended from their minds as we speak.

Anyway, half the schools in the same group I put MN don't have a Final Four appearance in the last 25 years, real or 'imagined.' (Missouri, Purdue, Wake, etc.) Minnesota enjoys pretty strong fan support, selling out most games, and they are the only school in a state of 5 million people. Those are the reasons I think they belong on this list, in addition to the Final Four appearnce that was/wasn't.

 

[mnboiler]

In the Big Ten alone, I would say we are the 7th best job out of 11 behind Ohio State, Illinois, Michigan, Michigan State, Indiana, and Wisconsin and ahead of Northwestern, Iowa, and Purdue (only because of what we recently learned about the Purdue Athletic Department). Just my two cents.

That commitment from the athletic department appears to have been made after the Painter saga of last weekend. ESPN reported that he will be $2.3 million a year plus incentives. Every reports says that part of getting Painter to stay was the AD making the commitment to both pay the assistant coaches well, as well as, providing the basketball program with the resources it needs to a National Championship.

 

[Section201]

Indiana ?

Indiana? In it's current state I am LOL.

It is a solid third in it's own state for Gawd Sakes.

I am no longer LOL. I am now ROTFLMAO.

 

[howeda7]

Seems to me that only a few schools are historic game changers...North Carolina, Kentucky, UCLA, Kansas would be my elite...Duke and Indiana are one coach wonders and should be included with the second tier.

After the elite I see about 20 schools that are top teir programs and about 40 also rans including MN where the only difference between them is coaches preference to where he wants to live and work.

Truthfully I would include Ohio State in the elite category before Indiana or Duke because they have done it with multiple coaches in multiple eras. But I think they need to win a few more championships first. Duke is like FSU in football...only done it with one coach and until they do it with somebody not named Bowden they wont be an elite program. Whoever replaced Coach K can make Duke an Elite by winning some championships. Anyone remember Duke pre Coach K?

OSU is an interesting case. It depends how you weight the football school issue. Also, in recent vintage, Ayers and O'Brien built up good teams but didn't stick long enough. Maybe Matta will change that. Still they have all of 2 Final Fours and 0 National Titles in the last 25 years. I don't think that qualifies them wtih the 1st group.

 

[ParaBadger]

A. Purdue is spending $80 million on a similar project.

B. Let's not kid ourselves, half of that $40 million is going to the wrestling team.

C. The amount of B1G basketball talent is very small so you are going to have to leave the state to recruit most of the time.

D. As previously stated there have been reports of tumbleweeds blowing though Carver-Hawkeye during basketball games, but they are unconfirmed because no fans were there to see them.

The talent pool is depleted even further by the presence of Iowa St. Northern Iowa, Drake, Creighton and Nebraska basically drawing from the same pool. Creighton, Drake and N Iowa probably aren't competing for the same recruits initially; however, sometimes it's nice to be able to "withhold" offers to some home state guys that might be a notch below your primary recruiting targets. "Safety" recruits or fall-back recruits you could call them. They get snatched up by the local mid-majors.

Meanwhile Minnesota is basically competing against their own incompetence for recruits. There isn't a BCS school in the country that has exclusive rights to the in-state population/talent base that Minnesota has. i think it's a pretty attractive job for a coach, personally.

 

[GoFerit]

Indiana? In it's current state I am LOL.

It is a solid third in it's own state for Gawd Sakes.

I am no longer LOL. I am now ROTFLMAO.

It is not only about how well a program is currently performing in deciding, however subjectively, the attractiveness of the job. If Crean gets sacked, IU will have top coaches lined up for the job. Well.... Maybe, I am outdated in thinking that.

 

[GopherInPittsburgh]

Thanks for actually putting worthwhile input into a thread unlike other badger counterparts Para

 

[dinkything]

Indiana? In it's current state I am LOL.

It is a solid third in it's own state for Gawd Sakes.

I am no longer LOL. I am now ROTFLMAO.

3rd within the state of Indiana??


Well, let's see...

Butler is a clear #1

Notre Dame is a clear #2

Then, there is a big gap...

Fighting it out for #3 is Evansville, Indiana St., IPFW, Purdue, and IU, in no particular order.

IU is definitely in the top 10 in the state of Indiana, though.

 

[SoMplsHawkI]

In the Dr. Tom era I would have agreed. But the sight of tumbelweeds blowing through Carver-Hawkeye one too many times in the last 4-5 years has lowered by opinion. It seems Iowa has become SEC-like in it's devotion to being a football school. You can bring 25K to Minnesota and defile our restrooms but you can't bother to show up for a home basketball game?

Hmmm. Your own criteria puts us in the above average category.
" won their conference in at least the last 15-20 years, "

 

[Gopher07]

Duke made the Final Four four times and National Championship game twice before Coach K got there, and had a NPOY in Dick Groat. Coach K has certainly elevated the profile but it's not like they were Northwestern before he came.

 

[Section201]

Go

It is not only about how well a program is currently performing in deciding, however subjectively, the attractiveness of the job. If Crean gets sacked, IU will have top coaches lined up for the job. Well.... Maybe, I am outdated in thinking that.

I do agree, when the Tan One gets canned top coaches will be interested in the IU job.

 

[Pewterschmidt]

Duke made the Final Four four times and National Championship game twice before Coach K got there, and had a NPOY in Dick Groat. Coach K has certainly elevated the profile but it's not like they were Northwestern before he came.

And then you add in that Duke has been the best program in the country over the past quarter century (by any measure you choose) and it's definitely a Type 'A' job. It's not like Coach K has had success for only a half dozen years. He has 11 Final Fours and 4 NCs over the past 25 years...and he's done in entirely within the 64-team field era with limited scholarships.

 

[Section201]

howeda

In the Dr. Tom era I would have agreed. But the sight of tumbelweeds blowing through Carver-Hawkeye one too many times in the last 4-5 years has lowered by opinion. It seems Iowa has become SEC-like in it's devotion to being a football school. You can bring 25K to Minnesota and defile our restrooms but you can't bother to show up for a home basketball game?[/QUOTE]

Howeda, CLASSIC !

 

[Hawksfan81]

Interesting topic - a while back I also saw a similar topic on a non-Big 10 site ranking all D-1 basketball programs, although they did not limit the timeframe to last 20 to 25 years (as some have done in this thread). Anyway, I recall one poster in that thread had really done his homework (can't recall the site that was quoted) by compiling historical stats ranging from such items as wins/losses, # of tourney appearances, historical attendance #'s, etc. Anyway, they actually had Iowa ranked higher than Minnesota. In the context of this thread, I would put Iowa within the "above average" category, but could certainly see the viewpoint of those that put Iowa in the "average" category if they only look at recent 10 year type of "history".

I did have to chuckle at the comments by one poster (believe EG#9) on his apparent put down of Iowa's program based on the last two coaching selections (Lickliter & McCaffrey). Granted Lickliter ultimately was a bad fit for Iowa, but upon his hire, he was just coming off a national coach of year award for Butler (you know the program that has played in the last two national title games), and McCaffrey (while perhaps not a household name) is certainly known in the coaching ranks as someone that has improved every program he has been at, has a decent pedegree as a long-time assistant at Notre Dame, and is a "bull dog" of a recruiter.

 

[howeda7]

Hmmm. Your own criteria puts us in the above average category.
" won their conference in at least the last 15-20 years, "

I stated the other reasons I don't think Iowa qualifies. In fairness, if Iowa actually were in the SEC and I didn't know about the tumbleweeds blowing through the once-full basketball arena, or the fact that you can bring twice that arena's capacity to an away football game, I'd probably feel differently. But I can't erase those things from my brain any easier then I can forget that we actually did make the Final Four in 1997. When did Iowa make their last Final Four, btw?

 

[Hawksfan81]

Iowa's last Final Four was in 1980. Too bad that guard Ronnie Lester hurt his knee earlier that year, and never fully recovered because Iowa would have had a good chance of beating Dr. Darrell "Dunkenstein's" Louisville team to get into the championship game. Recall a Magic Johnson quote from prior year that Ronnie Lester was best player he had played against.