Ranking Big Ten men’s basketball coaches (#18. Ben Johnson, Minnesota)

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jamiche said:

P5 NIL Team Rankings + G5 notables

P5 NIL Team Rankings (from on3): 1 - Texas $19.9 mil 2 - Alabama $16 mil 3 - tOSU 13.6 mil 4 - USC 13.5 mil 5 - Georgia 13.4 mil 6 - Colorado 12.3 mil 7 - Michigan 11.6 mil 8 - Oregon 11.6 mil 9 - Tennessee 11.6 mil 10 - Florida State 10.2 mil 11 - LSU 10.1 mil 12 - Penn State 9.9 mil 13 -...
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On3 is just a guess. And that's for football. And yet PJ does a much better job of running a program and keeping players than BJ does.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
On3 is just a guess. And that's for football. And yet PJ does a much better job of running a program and keeping players than BJ does.
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My mistake. Didn't realize it was FB. In any case, my understanding most of whatever NIL money there is per capita goes to FB, so it should be easier for PJ to keep his star players. Secondly, I can't imagine the U's hoops NIL rank is much different than FB. I suppose it's possible, but it would be quite surprising.
 

jamiche said:

P5 NIL Team Rankings + G5 notables

P5 NIL Team Rankings (from on3): 1 - Texas $19.9 mil 2 - Alabama $16 mil 3 - tOSU 13.6 mil 4 - USC 13.5 mil 5 - Georgia 13.4 mil 6 - Colorado 12.3 mil 7 - Michigan 11.6 mil 8 - Oregon 11.6 mil 9 - Tennessee 11.6 mil 10 - Florida State 10.2 mil 11 - LSU 10.1 mil 12 - Penn State 9.9 mil 13 -...
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Interesting... Many NCAA teams below us...

So yes our coach fucking sucks
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
I know, we can't be expected to compete with NIL juggernauts like Iowa State and Northwestern.
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Ben's first recruiting class, as sophomores, just had a big jump and decent year. And everyone was eligible to return.

I'd have expected another big jump.
 

Off-GridTNgopher said:
Interesting... Many NCAA teams below us...

So yes our coach fucking sucks
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How many of those teams hired a first-time head coach who inherited an empty roster and who's first recruiting class are only sophomores?

To just knee-jerk say Ben sucks is so absurd. Fans are always like this...but there's also a lot of trolling on here from fans of other teams.
 


jamiche said:

P5 NIL Team Rankings + G5 notables

P5 NIL Team Rankings (from on3): 1 - Texas $19.9 mil 2 - Alabama $16 mil 3 - tOSU 13.6 mil 4 - USC 13.5 mil 5 - Georgia 13.4 mil 6 - Colorado 12.3 mil 7 - Michigan 11.6 mil 8 - Oregon 11.6 mil 9 - Tennessee 11.6 mil 10 - Florida State 10.2 mil 11 - LSU 10.1 mil 12 - Penn State 9.9 mil 13 -...
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LOL.
 

EasyThere Pilgrim said:
How many of those teams hired a first-time head coach who inherited an empty roster and who's first recruiting class are only sophomores?

To just knee-jerk say Ben sucks is so absurd. Fans are always like this...but there's also a lot of trolling on here from fans of other teams.
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I can't believe I have to explain this, but this is why you don't do that (i.e., hire a first-time head coach; who hasn't even been a top assistant anywhere; who interviewed unsuccessfully at lower programs; who would be hard pressed to retain very many players from the roster he inherited because of his lack of ability and experience and the general feeling of doom that that creates among those inherited players; and who would be hard pressed to assemble a creditable roster like other, more capable coaches around the country HAVE been able to do under the same circumstances). I'm not sure how Coyle or anyone would expect any different outcome than this from that hiring decision. It was the easiest thing in recorded sports history to predict. And so here we are, with the poorest coach in the conference.
 

EasyThere Pilgrim said:
But obviously, so is the idea that the coach matters.
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The coach still matters no matter how many times you say it doesn't. We will never be first in the power 6 in NIL. We will also likely never be last. How we fare among the large majority of teams who aren't buying million dollar players is on the coach.
 

howeda7 said:
The coach still matters no matter how many times you say it doesn't. We will never be first in the power 6 in NIL. We will also likely never be last. How we fare among the large majority of teams who aren't buying million dollar players is on the coach.
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There are no more important people in a sports organization than the head coach and the general manager. In college sports, those people are one in the same, making that person--and the choice of which person you hire--doubly crucial.

Even in any organization, who you hire for any job--from janitor on up--is important. If it weren't, why would you waste time evaluating candidates? I swear, the things people write on here...
 




EasyThere Pilgrim said:
I'd have expected another big jump.
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Given how much the head coach was playing two of those three sophomores at the end of the year, I think he would disagree with you.

EasyThere Pilgrim said:
Ben's first recruiting class, as sophomores, just had a big jump
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How could you consider what JOJ and Carrington did as sophomores compared to freshmen a "big jump"? JOJ went from starting almost every game as a freshman to not playing almost every minute as a sophomore.
 


I presume this article is by "New Arena" ranking BJ as the 17th best coach. The article I read earlier today mentioned that this is "arguably the most challenging job" in the conference.

This contradicted a piece I recall reading in 2013 ranking Minnesota as the third most valuable program in the Big Ten (Goizueta B-School). The business school at Emory University (Goizueta) referenced ticket prices and historical viewership of Gopher Basketball as placing Gopher Men's B-Ball as a desirable position. At the time, they were surprised that Andy Enfield and Chris Collins did not give stronger consideration to this job.

The New Arena article sited lack of depth in talent at the high school level and a dearth of NIL money as principal concerns.

After my old man had season tickets from 1963 to 2013, the last MBB game I attended was Rutgers in 2019. Yes, I've went to 100s of games in between and loved them all. This current environment is so damn frustrating. Is that like a world away? Have we fallen that far? Can it be rectified? If not, is it "poor public policy" to support public dollars for a new home venue? Do Minnesota kids not care? Is hockey (ice hockey and not field hockey - lol) and it's strangely high popularity and lack of economic relevance a problem? Is it possible that NIL support for big money sports at the "U" as opposed to everything else a political "hot potato" w/i the AD at the U? Is there simply no NIL money around given professional sports here in town?

As an aside, I do follow some other sports. That said, I think a number of professional franchises are probably in no different of a situation compared to Gopher sports. Great to to see the Twins finally win an MLB playoff series last year but that's probably best they can do given their economic challenges versus larger markets.

Thoughts?

Sorry
 



go4gopher said:
I presume this article is by "New Arena" ranking BJ as the 17th best coach. The article I read earlier today mentioned that this is "arguably the most challenging job" in the conference.

This contradicted a piece I recall reading in 2013 ranking Minnesota as the third most valuable program in the Big Ten (Goizueta B-School). The business school at Emory University (Goizueta) referenced ticket prices and historical viewership of Gopher Basketball as placing Gopher Men's B-Ball as a desirable position. At the time, they were surprised that Andy Enfield and Chris Collins did not give stronger consideration to this job.

The New Arena article sited lack of depth in talent at the high school level and a dearth of NIL money as principal concerns.

After my old man had season tickets from 1963 to 2013, the last MBB game I attended was Rutgers in 2019. Yes, I've went to 100s of games in between and loved them all. This current environment is so damn frustrating. Is that like a world away? Have we fallen that far? Can it be rectified? If not, is it "poor public policy" to support public dollars for a new home venue? Do Minnesota kids not care? Is hockey (ice hockey and not field hockey - lol) and it's strangely high popularity and lack of economic relevance a problem? Is it possible that NIL support for big money sports at the "U" as opposed to everything else a political "hot potato" w/i the AD at the U? Is there simply no NIL money around given professional sports here in town?

As an aside, I do follow some other sports. That said, I think a number of professional franchises are probably in no different of a situation compared to Gopher sports. Great to to see the Twins finally win an MLB playoff series last year but that's probably best they can do given their economic challenges versus larger markets.

Thoughts?

Sorry
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"...arguably the most challenging job in the conference."

Any job is what you make it. There was a time when, alternately, Wisconsin, Northwestern or Rutgers would've been considered the most challenging job in the conference, but those situations have turned around because they've been run better and found the right head coaches. The Minnesota program was once in much better shape and esteem but has been run into the ground, the latest coaching hire being the particularly worst blow. The job is now what has been made of it.
 

Bad Gopher said:
I can't believe I have to explain this, but this is why you don't do that (i.e., hire a first-time head coach; who hasn't even been a top assistant anywhere; who interviewed unsuccessfully at lower programs; who would be hard pressed to retain very many players from the roster he inherited because of his lack of ability and experience and the general feeling of doom that that creates among those inherited players; and who would be hard pressed to assemble a creditable roster like other, more capable coaches around the country HAVE been able to do under the same circumstances). I'm not sure how Coyle or anyone would expect any different outcome than this from that hiring decision. It was the easiest thing in recorded sports history to predict. And so here we are, with the poorest coach in the conference.
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Is 2 down years a TRAGEDY ?

When we've done nothing since Haskins. If we think a very young alumni will develop into a good coach.

We took a big jump in year 3. And should take another big jump in year 4 if Christie returns. Yet you still rant about Ben being the worst coach ever. You guys are unhinged.
 


Bob_Loblaw said:
Yeah, but you're always wrong.
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I was absolutely right about Ben needing until year 3. And about needing pure luck too.

True, I was also waiting to see just how bad buying-players/transferring would be. And if we lose everyone, then of course we can't build a team.

But your contention that another standard coaching hire could do much better is almost surely wrong.
 

EasyThere Pilgrim said:
Is 2 down years a TRAGEDY ?

When we've done nothing since Haskins. If we think a very young alumni will develop into a good coach.

We took a big jump in year 3. And should take another big jump in year 4 if Christie returns. Yet you still rant about Ben being the worst coach ever. You guys are unhinged.
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Big jump is subjective. They finished 10th and lost their first big ten tourney game. They played an abysmal non-conference schedule and lost two of those games. They won one NIT game.

The jump seems bigger because they were last place twice. 10th is still bad. It’s failing.
 

UpAndUnder43 said:
Big jump is subjective. They finished 10th and lost their first big ten tourney game. They played an abysmal non-conference schedule and lost two of those games. They won one NIT game.

The jump seems bigger because they were last place twice. 10th is still bad. It’s failing.
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We were in contention for 3rd-place until the last few games. Everyone was bunched up.

We were 9-11.
 

EasyThere Pilgrim said:
We were in contention for 3rd-place until the last few games. Everyone was bunched up.

We were 9-11.
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Ok. And they finished 10th. Lost first round of BTT and lost second round of NIT.

You have a tendency to ignore facts.

They were closer to 13th than 3rd.
 


UpAndUnder43 said:
Big jump is subjective. They finished 10th and lost their first big ten tourney game. They played an abysmal non-conference schedule and lost two of those games. They won one NIT game.

The jump seems bigger because they were last place twice. 10th is still bad. It’s failing.
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Since we're calling last year 10th when they finished 9th, can we call his 1st year 13th?
 

Johnnyboy18 said:
Since we're calling last year 10th when they finished 9th, can we call his 1st year 13th?
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For sure. I’m good with that. Forgot it was 9th.

Year 4 huge for Ben. Needs a tourney bid IMO. Would be massive for the program especially with a lot of guys in their final year next year.

As a basketball supporter through DTA and the gopher fund—I want them to be great. I just don’t have the money to buy players on my own.
 


UpAndUnder43 said:
Yes. 9-11 is a fact. Which was 9th place (fact), bottom half (fact) which is failing (subjective but rarely is being in the bottom half considered succeeding)
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But dang...we were just 1 game away from being in 6th-place.

So close to a top-tier finish.
 

UpAndUnder43 said:
Ok. And they finished 10th. Lost first round of BTT and lost second round of NIT.

You have a tendency to ignore facts.

They were closer to 13th than 3rd.
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Also 5-0 against Weakling Wednesday teams. 4-11 against everyone else. 1 quad one win. Had to overcome a 20 point deficit against PSU to avoid an 0-6 finish in the B1G.
 

howeda7 said:
Also 5-0 against Weakling Wednesday teams. 4-11 against everyone else. 1 quad one win. Had to overcome a 20 point deficit against PSU to avoid an 0-6 finish in the B1G.
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But those weakling wednesday teams got gutted by the portal, I know Rock would never take credit for beating a team that got gutted by the portal because it's just not fair.
 

howeda7 said:
Also 5-0 against Weakling Wednesday teams. 4-11 against everyone else. 1 quad one win. Had to overcome a 20 point deficit against PSU to avoid an 0-6 finish in the B1G.
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Only here would overcoming a 20-point deficit to win a game be considered a negative.
 

howeda7 said:
Also 5-0 against Weakling Wednesday teams. 4-11 against everyone else. 1 quad one win. Had to overcome a 20 point deficit against PSU to avoid an 0-6 finish in the B1G.
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They beat bad teams. Lost to good teams. Improvement over previous years but that’s not enough.
 

LegalGopher said:
This is comically bad. And there is not a single comment on the post that thinks this is a good list. Even non-Minnesota fans think having Johnson 18th is bad. If this list is all-time quality, Izzo should be #1 but if this list is current state, Cronin should be nowhere near 4, Muss shouldn't be 3 at USC, Hoiberg and Collins should be ahead of May, Fran, and Gard. I don't know if there is a single coach on that list that I think is in the right position
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Johnson is certainly at the right number. Debate all you want with the other 17 and where they should be. However, there is zero debating where the Gopher coach should be on the list...
 

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