I stand corrected. I saw earlier rankings that had us higher- I see that we have settled in at 34 on ESPN and 29 as you say on Rivals. Still-I am extremely happy with their recruiting and think it only gets better from here. Let's make sure we never are optimistic.....
Rand: NCAA Tourney is minimum requirement for Pitino's honeymoon to last
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I stand corrected. I saw earlier rankings that had us higher- I see that we have settled in at 34 on ESPN and 29 as you say on Rivals. Still-I am extremely happy with their recruiting and think it only gets better from here. Let's make sure we never are optimistic.....
rivergopher
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Just the facts. Just for reference and not a Tubby Backer whatsoever but he outrecruited Pitini in his second season. 23rd in Rivals and 25th on Scout, and we know how his recruiting after that. Lets let him get a couple top 25-35 classes before we laud him too much for recruiting.
Winasota Gopher
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If you want to build a program, it should absolutely not be warm.
If you cannot see the positive things Pitino brings to the table you're simply not looking.
The Strib/PP/Gopher Faithful should be a little bit more objective about the direction this program was headed pre Pitino and quit acting like he took over a team that made the NCAA and was a shoe in for one in the future. This program looked like it was headed for a painful decline when Tubby was excused. Pitino's style is 180 degrees different than Tubby's, if you don't give him at minimum 4 years to find his feet and reset the roster, you're chancing cutting loose a very talented and passionate coach.
As I've stated before, if this program cuts Pitino loose after 3 years, I'll no longer be a Gopher Basketball fan as it'll be blatantly obvious the school knows nothing about how to build a program (not saying I do). Nothing stymies growth like rapid wholesale change, even if Tubby was on a upward path, this large of a culture change was bound to have a negative step or two.
IF the program makes a decision that uptempo will never work in the B1G 10, that would be the ONLY reason to let him go in 4 years or less. Even then, how could you make that decision without giving it a solid try? And doing so would admit you made a massive mistake in hiring him and his style.
Winasota Gopher
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Tubby was a brand name at that point. He could recruit on his name. Despite your insistence that his name plays a big role in him getting recognition you're dead wrong on from a recruiting standpoint. Pitino came here and we(the board) all literally grumbled and were displeased. His moxy and results have won over much of the Twin Cities, his name has just gotten him more headlines.
I don't know why I'm replying to you. You're posts just frustrate the hell out of me because you are just like my Dad...
rivergopher
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All i did was point out a falsehood, not trying to start anything.
P.S.
Not so sure Kentucky fans would agree with the bold, hence the reason he was shown the door.
rivergopher
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Nexy year will be all his players, minus Buggs same with year 4. I think 4 years is a very fair assmenet for Basketball, it is not Football where you have a roster of over 100. Basketball to me is a completely different dynamic than Football is.
Winasota Gopher
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You're delusional then. When's the last time we had an impact freshman? We just admitted that he wasn't on solid recruiting ground his first year, and I'll argue he wasn't even his 2nd class seeing as no one had really seen his "style" yet, so he's recruiting on "trust me" or "look at Billy Donovan/Rick Pitino".
With that said, this year will be the first time he got to recruit full cycle players with some good things to sell with. So after "4 years" he will have seniors that he recruited for 2 months, Juniors that he recruited on the "trust me" pitch, Sophomores that he Recruited for 2 years and Freshman that he recruited for 3 years.
If we believe in Pitino's system and his ability, and obviously I do, he needs more time to turn it around. If next years freshman class do not win a big 10 championship or make it to 2 consecutive NCAA tournaments then I think we should be wondering out loud if we made a mistake. Not a minute before. Impact Freshman take YEARS to recruits. Tyus Jones was getting visits or he was visiting Coach K when he was a freshman in highschool. To think that Richard is going to be getting the recruits he wants or COULD be capable of getting at some point, it will take time to do that, not 4 years, and he certainly wont have the seniors it takes to win in the B1G 10 by year 4.
rivergopher
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I think 2 consecutive NCAA tournaments is realistic and if he is good as some believe almost expected, but you realize that the Gopher program has won 2 big ten championships in 33 years right. I would love it to happen but that is not a standard that I would hold any Gopher coach to.
We're not talking about winning the B1G here. Making the NCAA tournament is not a high bar to clear. It means finshing in the top 6-8 in the conference. It means winning 9 or 10 conference games. For the record, I still think we will make it this year. But if we don't, I will be disappointed. There is enough talent to do so. If we then fail to make it again next year, I will be beyond disappointed not thinking 'oh well, this job is so awful we can't expect more.'
rivergopher
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I do not want to fight but could I inquire how many years do you think that a Basketball coach should get, like I said Football is entirely different argument and grant it was at the d2 level but I went through a football rebuilding job at UMD and I know how hard it can be. I just do not think Basketball takes as long, only 5 on the floor and 8-10 play. Freshman and Sophmores are far more ready to contribute in Basketball than Football. To me 4 years is a very fair assesment to me.
Very true. And while Tubby didn't leave any incoming recruits, Little Dre and King from that class might be our best players right now. Barring injuries, there is really zero reason this team doesn't finish in the top 6 of the conference. If they don't, the coaching staff shouldn't get a pass in that case.
rivergopher
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I agree with what you wrote earlier I think that they should be a NCAA touranment team this year and will be slightly disappointed if they are not. Year 3 and we again miss out then year 4 is a make it or break year in my eyes barring unbelievable attrition.
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6 years as I said before.
SelectionSunday
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I would put it this way. Assuming the Gophers keep their key players healthy this year, and considering the current state of the Big Ten (1 elite team, then a lot of decent ones), anything short of the NCAA is a disappointment. The Gophers have enough experienced players/pieces to get there. Pitino has a solid blend of players Tubby left behind and ones he brought in himself.
Winasota Gopher
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I don't share your optimism for this squad nor the pessimism for the big 10. The roster we have today does not fit the style we want to run in the conference we want to run it against.
I think our first NCAA tournament will be in 2 years. And it's not because I think Pitino sucks, or because this team is bad. Hes trying to run an up and down brand of basketball with a high low roster, we saw what it WILL look like during the non conference schedule, but that isn't sustainable with our below the rim, physically weak team. I think we have an outside shot at making it this year, but I wont be heartbroken or mad at anyone if we don't.
XMan
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Four experienced seniors playing significant minutes on a team that showed they can win last year taking the NIT championship should be good enough to make the NCAA tourney this year. If not they underachieved.
My feelings exactly. With what this team had coming back, the NCAAs should be a very attainable goal. If they don't get in, it will be a disappointment.
Gopher Warrior
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"How man years" = DEPENDS. Depends on a number of factors. I think you can start forming strong opinions early on, but usually need to give some time.
In the case of Pitino...
That's from this preseason article. The Gophers - as of today - project down next season. But.. you need to look at not only what the team does this year and next (including looking at the newcomers that are brought in for 2015), but also where he stands with key recruits for 2016 and beyond.
Next year could be rough, but with help on the way. That may mean 2016-17 doesn't project all that well, but the following year does.. all just depends. From a PR standpoint (which is largely mindless crap that a non-thinking fan can grasp onto), this season would be nice to earn an NCAA tourney berth... because the risk he runs is not getting in this year and then having a rough year next season... puts him in a less favorable light (right or wrong -- wrong, mostly) a year and a half from now.
Time will tell. He has a lot to prove, but the ceiling for the program is gigantic in comparison to what it was with Tubby here in his last couple of years.
Texas Tech now 10-3! Oh, how they will crumble. AWFUL.
In the case of Pitino...
That's from this preseason article. The Gophers - as of today - project down next season. But.. you need to look at not only what the team does this year and next (including looking at the newcomers that are brought in for 2015), but also where he stands with key recruits for 2016 and beyond.
Next year could be rough, but with help on the way. That may mean 2016-17 doesn't project all that well, but the following year does.. all just depends. From a PR standpoint (which is largely mindless crap that a non-thinking fan can grasp onto), this season would be nice to earn an NCAA tourney berth... because the risk he runs is not getting in this year and then having a rough year next season... puts him in a less favorable light (right or wrong -- wrong, mostly) a year and a half from now.
Time will tell. He has a lot to prove, but the ceiling for the program is gigantic in comparison to what it was with Tubby here in his last couple of years.
Texas Tech now 10-3! Oh, how they will crumble. AWFUL.
Winasota Gopher
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****. I'm agreeing with he... Not gonna bode well for me!
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Do you guys think he will be endured for two more years?
Yes. But if we miss the NCAA's his seat next year is warm. If they miss next year it's en feugo in 2016-17.
gopherbadgerman
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I think that 6 years is a pretty long time for a BB coach, IMO. Pretty low expectations for a coach to make the NCAA's, if that is what you are implying...
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That's a very long leash.
You have to give a basketball coach at least 4 years. Basketball coaches need time to bring in and develop all of their own guys and also coach them up a year or 2 until you can truly judge them. Also it'd be nice to see what Pitino could do with a real practice facility.
I think this year might struggle but next year will not be as bad as people think. An improved Mason and Morris Along with a young but talented recruiting class in the guard positions we will only have a drop off at center on the offensive end. I expect an NCAA appearance next year if not this year as well (though it'll be tough on the way out)
I think this year might struggle but next year will not be as bad as people think. An improved Mason and Morris Along with a young but talented recruiting class in the guard positions we will only have a drop off at center on the offensive end. I expect an NCAA appearance next year if not this year as well (though it'll be tough on the way out)
Too long
Winasota Gopher
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We can agree to disagree. I just think when you have as much of a stylistic and culture change as we are attempting to go through you need to cycle your predecessors recruits and also have time to recruits your style of players (which you cannot do from day one) and get those players through the system. So my 6 years comes from 1 year scrambling to fill a roster, year 2 recruiting decent players and you've now cycled most of your predecessors players, year 3 your are recruiting kids you've spent some time recruiting and should fit your system perfectly. Year 4, 5 and 6 will get your kids to senior level. If we don't have "success" by that time we are in real trouble.
I think Tubby had an easier time recruiting from the start based on his name. He also didn't transform a system completely so incumbent players fit much better than what we are seeing right now.
I also think Minnesota is not in a spot to cycle coaches every 3 years trying to find the right guy. That will only drive the program deeper into mediocrity.
They're not and they haven't. Monson got 7 + years. Tubby got 6. Pitino likely will get that many unless he leaves on his own. All we're arguing is that there are at least minimal standards to be met, and you seem to be arguing we can have none for 4-5 years.
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Two words for you: Buzz Williams.