Rand: NCAA Tourney is minimum requirement for Pitino's honeymoon to last

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BleedGopher

BleedGopher

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per Rand's 2015 predictions:

6) A defining year for Richard Pitino and the Gophers: In a wide open Big Ten, the Gophers have two things that could make them factors — experienced guard play and capable big men. This should be a momentum-building season for coach Richard Pitino, one that can carry the program to bigger and better things in the future. But a trip to the NCAA tournament is the minimum requirement for his honeymoon to last into a second year.

http://www.startribune.com/sports/287239411.html

Go Gophers!!
 


Really need to go undefeated at home and steal at least 2 games on the road to make the NCAA. This was one game I thought at the beginning of the season we had a shot at and we failed. Looking at our schedule, probably our best shots are Nebraska and Penn State. However, I just do not see it happening, because I am not sure we can go undefeated at home. I think we will lose at least one game at home to either OSU, Wisc, Ill, Iowa or Neb. We really have not beat anyone this year so far and with the Big Ten on a bit of a down year, opportunities to get signature wins have diminished. Our lack of toughness inside will continue to show during the Big Ten season. Too many people (I include myself in this group) got warm fuzzy feelings as we feasted on cupcakes despite our glaring deficiencies on the glass. We were able to simply out-athlete those teams, but just like last year, we are discovering we cannot do that in the Big Ten.
 

Am pissed about the loss like everyone else, but want to see a big response out of the Gophers on Saturday. Maryland is good, but I think we're all talking them up way too much. They're very similar to the Gophers. They're not a juggernaut, for evidence see how ugly much of their win over Sparty was. Gophers can beat 'em.

Now if Gophers go into a shell after the bad loss @ Purdue and play with the deer-in-headlights look vs. the Terps, then I think we're looking at the same old issues (bed-wetting on the road).
 

SS, an "ugly win" at MSU is pretty much the only way someone will win at MSU. The fact that they won at MSU is impressive to me, because they did it when not on their A game. Maryland also beat a very good ISU team and their only loss was to Virginia.
 


goldy93 said:
Really need to go undefeated at home and steal at least 2 games on the road to make the NCAA. This was one game I thought at the beginning of the season we had a shot at and we failed. Looking at our schedule, probably our best shots are Nebraska and Penn State. However, I just do not see it happening, because I am not sure we can go undefeated at home. I think we will lose at least one game at home to either OSU, Wisc, Ill, Iowa or Neb. We really have not beat anyone this year so far and with the Big Ten on a bit of a down year, opportunities to get signature wins have diminished. Our lack of toughness inside will continue to show during the Big Ten season. Too many people (I include myself in this group) got warm fuzzy feelings as we feasted on cupcakes despite our glaring deficiencies on the glass. We were able to simply out-athlete those teams, but just like last year, we are discovering we cannot do that in the Big Ten.
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Don't need to win at home, but you hit on a key point -- "out-athlete those teams"... now I don't know if that's the right terminology, but Minnesota was able to turn them over at an incredibly high rate, which helped an offense that was otherwise not playing very well. Now, can you steal with high frequency against low-turnover Big Ten teams? If not it's time to get creative.
 

By Definition: then the honeymoon is over

Pitino is an excellent basketball coach! He has made chicken salad out of not much. It's going to take some time.
He develops players. Players get better. It's just, so far he doesn't have any players. Who on our roster would anybody else really want? They look the best they can because they are often playing to their maximum potential. We just are not very good individually. He makes the sum greater than the parts for absolute certain.

Every time EE comes in a game I want to stop watching. I have more patience with Mo but you see the same short comings he's always had surface at critical times there too. Andre is either terrible or decent. We all pine for the
sophomore Andre but he averaged the same that year that he is now. He was just the third or fourth option then without any pressure and now he's suppossed to be the man and that is not who Andre is at all. Nobody recruited Mathieu as late the spring for a reason. Yes, he was awesome last year!!! But he is very underwhelming this year.
Joey King is probably our best player. How could we possibly be good?

Recruiting is hard! Pitino can develop talent. Can he evaluate talent or is he just not able to get the guys he wants?
 

60's Guy said:
Pitino is an excellent basketball coach! He has made chicken salad out of not much. It's going to take some time.
He develops players. Players get better. It's just, so far he doesn't have any players. Who on our roster would anybody else really want? They look the best they can because they are often playing to their maximum potential. We just are not very good individually. He makes the sum greater than the parts for absolute certain.

Every time EE comes in a game I want to stop watching. I have more patience with Mo but you see the same short comings he's always had surface at critical times there too. Andre is either terrible or decent. We all pine for the
sophomore Andre but he averaged the same that year that he is now. He was just the third or fourth option then without any pressure and now he's suppossed to be the man and that is not who Andre is at all. Nobody recruited Mathieu as late the spring for a reason. Yes, he was awesome last year!!! But he is very underwhelming this year.
Joey King is probably our best player. How could we possibly be good?

Recruiting is hard! Pitino can develop talent. Can he evaluate talent or is he just not able to get the guys he wants?
Click to expand...
I would respond to this but there's just too much wrong with it and I just don't have the energy to talk you off the ledge
 

60's Guy said:
Pitino is an excellent basketball coach! He has made chicken salad out of not much. It's going to take some time.
He develops players. Players get better. It's just, so far he doesn't have any players. Who on our roster would anybody else really want? They look the best they can because they are often playing to their maximum potential. We just are not very good individually. He makes the sum greater than the parts for absolute certain.

Every time EE comes in a game I want to stop watching. I have more patience with Mo but you see the same short comings he's always had surface at critical times there too. Andre is either terrible or decent. We all pine for the
sophomore Andre but he averaged the same that year that he is now. He was just the third or fourth option then without any pressure and now he's suppossed to be the man and that is not who Andre is at all. Nobody recruited Mathieu as late the spring for a reason. Yes, he was awesome last year!!! But he is very underwhelming this year.
Joey King is probably our best player. How could we possibly be good?

Recruiting is hard! Pitino can develop talent. Can he evaluate talent or is he just not able to get the guys he wants?
Click to expand...

As I read you post- I think - true,false,true, false, true, false

I agree that Pitino is an excellent coach and players are improving. I agree that we don't have superstar. I agree that EE is brutal to watch.

I disagree that no one would want any of our players- that's crazy.
I disagree that lil Dre has been bad this year
Joey King is our best player? What were you smoking in the 60's? Joey does some nice things- he hit some big shots yesterday. He is also the power forward that will go out and get you ONE REBOUND in yesterday's game in 37 minutes. He is fundamentally sound and plays hard but extremely limited athletically.
Andre is a very nice player, possibly still our best, who teams have chosen to focus on. Purdue did everything they could deny him a look- he is so average that he was their biggest focus of attention. No player anyone would want? I'd bet any coach in the Big Ten would be happy to add Mason to their roster or Hollins or for that matter Morris and all of those would get an offer before King.
I enjoy your posts but this one was off base.

I will agree with you on this-it will take time for Pitino to bring the players he wants in here. He is going to be a great coach here and I believe a great recruiter who will get the job done.
 



Gopher Warrior said:
Don't need to win at home, but you hit on a key point -- "out-athlete those teams"... now I don't know if that's the right terminology, but Minnesota was able to turn them over at an incredibly high rate, which helped an offense that was otherwise not playing very well. Now, can you steal with high frequency against low-turnover Big Ten teams? If not it's time to get creative.
Click to expand...

Out Athlete highly athletic teams is not going to be our forte for the short term. ie. at least for this year and next.
 

Can he evaluate talent or is he just not able to get the guys he wants?

Yes, Pitino can evaluate talent and to the latter, Pitino said last year and while this isn't a direct quote, it's pretty close. He said, everyone keeps saying no to Minnesota, that is why he had to go recruit overseas.
 

BleedGopher said:
per Rand's 2015 predictions:

6) A defining year for Richard Pitino and the Gophers: In a wide open Big Ten, the Gophers have two things that could make them factors — experienced guard play and capable big men. This should be a momentum-building season for coach Richard Pitino, one that can carry the program to bigger and better things in the future. But a trip to the NCAA tournament is the minimum requirement for his honeymoon to last into a second year

That is an absurd statement on so many levels.
Click to expand...
 

Wow. You were honestly paid to evaluate basketball players at some point? That's absolutely amazing. This is almost as good as your posts about Hurt.

60's Guy said:
Pitino is an excellent basketball coach! He has made chicken salad out of not much. It's going to take some time.
He develops players. Players get better. It's just, so far he doesn't have any players. Who on our roster would anybody else really want? They look the best they can because they are often playing to their maximum potential. We just are not very good individually. He makes the sum greater than the parts for absolute certain.

Every time EE comes in a game I want to stop watching. I have more patience with Mo but you see the same short comings he's always had surface at critical times there too. Andre is either terrible or decent. We all pine for the
sophomore Andre but he averaged the same that year that he is now. He was just the third or fourth option then without any pressure and now he's suppossed to be the man and that is not who Andre is at all. Nobody recruited Mathieu as late the spring for a reason. Yes, he was awesome last year!!! But he is very underwhelming this year.
Joey King is probably our best player. How could we possibly be good?

Recruiting is hard! Pitino can develop talent. Can he evaluate talent or is he just not able to get the guys he wants?
Click to expand...
 



GopherPop said:
BleedGopher said:
per Rand's 2015 predictions:

6) A defining year for Richard Pitino and the Gophers: In a wide open Big Ten, the Gophers have two things that could make them factors — experienced guard play and capable big men. This should be a momentum-building season for coach Richard Pitino, one that can carry the program to bigger and better things in the future. But a trip to the NCAA tournament is the minimum requirement for his honeymoon to last into a second year

That is an absurd statement on so many levels.
Click to expand...

Agreed
Click to expand...
 

okay

underground629 said:
Wow. You were honestly paid to evaluate basketball players at some point? That's absolutely amazing. This is almost as good as your posts about Hurt.
Click to expand...

Okay, of the players mentioned who can you count on in 2015?
EE?
Mo?
Mathieu?
Andre?
King?
Give me your arguments:
Tell me about the consistency you can expect from those players? And have you even seen Michael Hurt play?

I know game in game out what Joey is going bring. He is the least athletically talented player we have. He is also the only thing we have close to gritty or consistent.

Sure people are going to look at Hollins but he would not be in my top 26 of guys in my Big Ten fantasy draft.
Which guy is going to play on a given day? So, if I only get 13 players on my team and I can select anybody,
no, he's not in my first two teams. Evidently he is on yours? And no, Joey King is not either which is my
overall point....we have limited talent and an excellent coach.

Sure, if you haven't got a post Mo is nice addition to your team but both of Purdues bigs were more effective.

Ya, I like Morris and Mason too but I didn't include them in the earlier post.

So please state your case:
 

60's Guy said:
Okay, of the players mentioned who can you count on in 2015? EE? Mo? Mathieu? Andre? King? Give me your arguments: Tell me about the consistency you can expect from those players? And have you even seen Michael Hurt play? I know game in game out what Joey is going bring. He is the least athletically talented player we have. He is also the only thing we have close to gritty or consistent. Sure people are going to look at Hollins but he would not be in my top 26 of guys in my Big Ten fantasy draft. Which guy is going to play on a given day? So, if I only get 13 players on my team and I can select anybody, no, he's not in my first two teams. Evidently he is on yours? And no, Joey King is not either which is my overall point....we have limited talent and an excellent coach. Sure, if you haven't got a post Mo is nice addition to your team but both of Purdues bigs were more effective. Ya, I like Morris and Mason too but I didn't include them in the earlier post. So please state your case:
Click to expand...

The Gophers strategy this year has not been to get points by going one on one. We don't need, and probably don't want, to have to count on one guy. The offense is based on penetration and passing. Then hitting open 3's. Dre, King, and Mason pretty consistently hit open 3's. Morris and Matheiu can occasionally as well. Morris, Mason, and Matheiu can all consistently penetrate. Mo is fairly reliable as a post scorer, needs to work on passing out of the post more often.

Point being, the gophers are at their worst when they have to count on one guy and their best when they count on playing like a team.
 


scher215 said:
The Gophers strategy this year has not been to get points by going one on one. We don't need, and probably don't want, to have to count on one guy. The offense is based on penetration and passing. Then hitting open 3's. Dre, King, and Mason pretty consistently hit open 3's. Morris and Matheiu can occasionally as well. Morris, Mason, and Matheiu can all consistently penetrate. Mo is fairly reliable as a post scorer, needs to work on passing out of the post more often.

Point being, the gophers are at their worst when they have to count on one guy and their best when they count on playing like a team.
Click to expand...
All true. Basically that is basketball. And it works very nicely against bad teams with no resistance or when things are rolling like the first half. However, when you need a basket if you hope to win close games you need a go to guy. Agreed? The team needs to know who they can count on. If they don't, you have five guys looking at each other in the difficult times hoping somebody else will do it. It's a beautiful formula when it works but you better have a guy you can count on if you want to win close games. Last year that guy was Mathieu.
 

GopherPop said:
Can he evaluate talent or is he just not able to get the guys he wants?

Yes, Pitino can evaluate talent and to the latter, Pitino said last year and while this isn't a direct quote, it's pretty close. He said, everyone keeps saying no to Minnesota, that is why he had to go recruit overseas.
Click to expand...

Where on earth did you read this? I read way more about Gopher sports than I probably should, and I don't recall him ever saying anything remotely close to this, nor do I think he ever would. He's basically admitting defeat in recdruiting with a statement like this, not to mention other coaches would destroy him with a comment like this, and the media and fans would as well. On top of that, this entire recruiting class coming is domestic, so outside of two guys out of the 12 or so he's already signed, that makes no sense.

If you can validate this quote then I apologize, otherwise this is a careless comment to throw around.

Go Gophers!!
 

BleedGopher said:
Where on earth did you read this? I read way more about Gopher sports than I probably should, and I don't recall him ever saying anything remotely close to this, nor do I think he ever would. He's basically admitting defeat in recdruiting with a statement like this, not to mention other coaches would destroy him with a comment like this, and the media and fans would as well. On top of that, this entire recruiting class coming is domestic, so outside of two guys out of the 12 or so he's already signed, that makes no sense.

If you can validate this quote then I apologize, otherwise this is a careless comment to throw around.

Go Gophers!!
Click to expand...

I think you've described very well why a statement like that by a head coach would be very implausible even if it was somewhat reflective of the recruiting environment. Either this poster is a B.S.er or he read this speculation somewhere and lacks critical thinking skills.
 

cjbfbp said:
I think you've described very well why a statement like that by a head coach would be very implausible even if it was somewhat reflective of the recruiting environment. Either this poster is a B.S.er or he read this speculation somewhere and lacks critical thinking skills.
Click to expand...

I believe Pitino said something pretty similar to what has been described.
But if memory serves it was on his radio show and if you listen there is a lot
sarcasm or tongue in cheek comments with chuckles. I think this was one of those times.
 


BleedGopher said:
Where on earth did you read this? I read way more about Gopher sports than I probably should, and I don't recall him ever saying anything remotely close to this, nor do I think he ever would. He's basically admitting defeat in recdruiting with a statement like this, not to mention other coaches would destroy him with a comment like this, and the media and fans would as well. On top of that, this entire recruiting class coming is domestic, so outside of two guys out of the 12 or so he's already signed, that makes no sense.

If you can validate this quote then I apologize, otherwise this is a careless comment to throw around.

Go Gophers!!
Click to expand...

At this time I can't validate coach Pitino's exact words. If memory serves me correctly, it was an off the cuff remark about having to recruit overseas players last year. Having followed GH for the past 15 years, I am aware that making careless remarks can be a cause of concern on GH and rightly so. Maybe some other GH'er may faintly remember Richard saying something along those lines. Go Gophers!!!
 

cjbfbp said:
I think you've described very well why a statement like that by a head coach would be very implausible even if it was somewhat reflective of the recruiting environment. Either this poster is a B.S.er or he read this speculation somewhere and lacks critical thinking skills.
Click to expand...

I can assure you I am not a "B.S.er" and I am fairly certain I don't lack critical thinking skills, with the exception of explanation skills. I've been a huge fan of our Gophers for going on 16 years. I take a long view on coach Pitino's success or lack thereof. IMO, it will take 3-5 years for him to have the players he wants in place. But, let's remember this is after all Minnesota, so let's not get overly excited about anything. :D
 

cjbfbp said:
I think you've described very well why a statement like that by a head coach would be very implausible even if it was somewhat reflective of the recruiting environment. Either this poster is a B.S.er or he read this speculation somewhere and lacks critical thinking skills.
Click to expand...

He absolutely made the comment referenced on a radio show earlier this year. Given the myriad of examples of subtle/honest/outside the box cheap shots he takes at his players, it shouldn't surprise anybody that he would do the same to himself and his staff regarding recruiting.

Poor choice of words cjbfbp when it's your own critical thinking skills that are wrong in this case.
 

howeda7 said:
station19 said:
Why is that absurd? I don't think that = if we don't make the NCAA's people will call for Richard's head. Just that the honeymoon will be over starting next year. It will be time to win or else. That seems reasonable to me.
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It's absurd because there was moderate talent across the team when Patino came in just 2 years ago. He essentially has one HS recruiting class on the team now, first year was mostly juncos that were great to fill a roll. I would like to see what he can do with the development of the HS talent he brings in in 3 years. Furthermore, there are a couple of the freshman on the team that should be red shirts but can't because of some bone-head moves by some players so the impact rolls out a year. Good thing the AD at MN isn't as short sighted as some of the fair weather fans and a few reporters that need to justify their existence by writing to the 1%.
Click to expand...
 

BleedGopher said:
Where on earth did you read this? I read way more about Gopher sports than I probably should, and I don't recall him ever saying anything remotely close to this, nor do I think he ever would. He's basically admitting defeat in recdruiting with a statement like this, not to mention other coaches would destroy him with a comment like this, and the media and fans would as well. On top of that, this entire recruiting class coming is domestic, so outside of two guys out of the 12 or so he's already signed, that makes no sense.

If you can validate this quote then I apologize, otherwise this is a careless comment to throw around.

Go Gophers!!
Click to expand...

Bleed- he said it when they signed Konate and Gaston. Pretty sure it was tongue in cheek but he said it and I think the qualifier was that he was talking about big men as he had already signed a nice group of guards.
 

watertown 1987 guy n said:
It's absurd because there was moderate talent across the team when Patino came in just 2 years ago. He essentially has one HS recruiting class on the team now, first year was mostly juncos that were great to fill a roll. I would like to see what he can do with the development of the HS talent he brings in in 3 years. Furthermore, there are a couple of the freshman on the team that should be red shirts but can't because of some bone-head moves by some players so the impact rolls out a year. Good thing the AD at MN isn't as short sighted as some of the fair weather fans and a few reporters that need to justify their existence by writing to the 1%.
Click to expand...

He took over a team that went to the NCAA tournament. Certainly a much better situation than Tubby took over, when he got us to the NCAA's in year 2. Yet you think if he misses the tournament his first two years no one has the right to find that unacceptable? No one is saying fire him or push the panic button. But if we end up in the NIT again, his seat should at least be warm next year.
 

howeda7 said:
He took over a team that went to the NCAA tournament. Certainly a much better situation than Tubby took over, when he got us to the NCAA's in year 2. Yet you think if he misses the tournament his first two years no one has the right to find that unacceptable? No one is saying fire him or push the panic button. But if we end up in the NIT again, his seat should at least be warm next year.
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Tubby left him with a decent squad but nothing for incoming recruits- and we lost those 2 before Pitino even signed up.

Tubby's NCAA team had Williams and Mbakwe and got in with an 8-10 record- the same record that got Pitino in the NIT last year without those two. This is just plain better basketball than we saw during Tubby's tenure. Pitino has a top 25 group of recruits coming in and more will be coming. I have almost zero doubt that we will see big time success during Pitino's years here should he stay long enough. It would not be smart to be talking about his seat getting warm here in just his third year. Meanwhile- it's year 2- game 1 of the Big10 was a disappointment to us all and this first four games is a really tough stretch. I still have a feeling that we will have a good year.
 

bga1 said:
Tubby left him with a decent squad but nothing for incoming recruits- and we lost those 2 before Pitino even signed up.

Tubby's NCAA team had Williams and Mbakwe and got in with an 8-10 record- the same record that got Pitino in the NIT last year without those two. This is just plain better basketball than we saw during Tubby's tenure. Pitino has a top 25 group of recruits coming in and more will be coming. I have almost zero doubt that we will see big time success during Pitino's years here should he stay long enough. It would not be smart to be talking about his seat getting warm here in just his third year. Meanwhile- it's year 2- game 1 of the Big10 was a disappointment to us all and this first four games is a really tough stretch. I still have a feeling that we will have a good year.
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Saying that he has a top 25 recruiting class is a blantant falsehood, he is 38th in 24/7, 29th rivals and outside the top 25 on scout. Lets not get carried away and he has not proven that he will bring in a top 25 class as of yet.
 

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