Question on the final schedule

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restovich

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I am inferring we do have a game with Ball State. With the Missouri game addition, do we only need one more game to complete the year's schedule?
 

On the Katz podcast it sounded like we are holding firm on playing Ball State, even though their best three players unexpectedly transferred and they'd prefer not to play us.
I believe that does leave us with one opening. There were no hints about it on the Katz podcast.
They were just discussing how tough the non conference schedule was. Going all the way to San Francisco to play a neutral site game and Missouri at home.
 

If reports are accurate, Gophers have one more game they can schedule.

Nov. 6 Bethune-Cookman (H)
Nov. 10 UTSA (H)
Nov. 14 Ball State (H)
Nov. 16 Mizzou (H)
Nov. TBA Arkansas-Pine Bluff (H)
Nov. TBA USC-Upstate (H)
Nov. 26 San Francisco (N)
Nov. 30 New Orleans (H)
Dec. 12 IUPUI (H)
Dec. 29 Maine (H)
 

So...that two games in December...pretty much need the additional non conference game to be in December. We do have two Big Ten games to play in December as well. That'll total 5 for the month. We scheduled 6 the previous two seasons....which seems more like the best practice principle of other Top 25 programs.
 

Holding firm on playing Ball St. for another easy win and can use the excuse after that “when we scheduled the game, we thought they’d be good with a lot of returning talent”.
 


MVGopherfan said:
Holding firm on playing Ball St. for another easy win and can use the excuse after that “when we scheduled the game, we thought they’d be good with a lot of returning talent”.
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Did Ben and Katz really try to pass off the (non-conference) schedule as “tough”?

That would be quite the overstatement. Kudos for scheduling Mizzou, but the facts are at this point the Gophers have scheduled 2 decent (also San Francisco) opponents. Ben shouldn’t assume fans don’t know what a (reasonably) tough non-conference schedule looks like.
 
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SelectionSunday said:
Did Ben and Katz really try to pass off the (non-conference) schedule as “tough”?

That would be quite the overstatement. Kudos for scheduling Mizzou, but the facts are at this point the Gophers have scheduled 2 decent (also San Francisco) opponents. Don’t assume your fans don’t know what a (reasonably) tough non-conference schedule looks like.
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I’m not sure. I didn’t listen to the pod. I was just noting another post above saying they were holding firm on Ball St. Win-Win situation for Ben with him needing wins. Lose-lose situation for us the fans
 

SelectionSunday said:
Did Ben and Katz really try to pass off the (non-conference) schedule as “tough”?

That would be quite the overstatement. Kudos for scheduling Mizzou, but the facts are at this point the Gophers have scheduled 2 decent (also San Francisco) opponents. Ben shouldn’t assume fans don’t know what a (reasonably) tough non-conference schedule looks like.
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I heard it as Katz starting the conversation as a tough non-conference, using the Mizzou announcement as the starter. Ben built on that with commenting on Mizzou, San Fran, and Ball State (tourney team, but has now lost three to the transfer portal). Ben didn't overstate the overall toughness of the schedule.
 

Oatmeal Savage said:
I heard it as Katz starting the conversation as a tough non-conference, using the Mizzou announcement as the starter. Ben built on that with commenting on Mizzou, San Fran, and Ball State (tourney team, but has now lost three to the transfer portal). Ben didn't overstate the overall toughness of the schedule.
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I agree Katz was the ignitor of the tough schedule talk. I agree Ben didn't overstate it.
But, he didn't push back at the idea as silly either. He was bullish on his team and he did say:
"I'm not scared of competition." Ben Johnson
 




60's Guy said:
I agree Katz was the ignitor of the tough schedule talk. I agree Ben didn't overstate it.
But, he didn't push back at the idea as silly either. He was bullish on his team and he did say:
"I'm not scared of competition." Ben Johnson
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If he wasn't scared of competition, he wouldn't have backed out of that tournament.
 

only Ben and Coyle really know what has been said behind the scenes.

But - if Coyle has told Ben that "you need to win x# of games to keep your job," then Ben has to look at that as his top priority as opposed to worrying about strength of schedule or 'Quad 1' games.

If this Gopher team was expected to be a top-half of the conference squad and an NCAA lock, then you approach the schedule differently. But if you're coaching for you job, you are going to look for wins wherever you can find them.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
only Ben and Coyle really know what has been said behind the scenes.

But - if Coyle has told Ben that "you need to win x# of games to keep your job," then Ben has to look at that as his top priority as opposed to worrying about strength of schedule or 'Quad 1' games.

If this Gopher team was expected to be a top-half of the conference squad and an NCAA lock, then you approach the schedule differently. But if you're coaching for you job, you are going to look for wins wherever you can find them.
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If Coyle sets a standard of number of wins without context of who those wins are against, he’s an idiot. I don’t think he’s an idiot.
 



I think it is more along the lines of we are building from the ground up...we have the freshman, now sophomores, we have Christie, we got the two freshmen coming in. We'll have some veteran holdovers and Mr Coyle in year four we'll be really good. .... I think that's the storyline.
That's oven dialogue versus the microwave...Ben is old school baking. Evidently he has sold Coyle on his philosophy. Ben's words.
I don't think it matters if we only win 3 Big Ten games...Ben will be here. If he's not he'll be surprised. That's my take.
He has the powderpuff schedule to build confidence. He talks a lot about all his losing as a player and as a coach being a good thing for him...he understands it, he's used to it. It'll help us win....words to that effect is his thought.
 

60's Guy said:
I think it is more along the lines of we are building from the ground up...we have the freshman, now sophomores, we have Christie, we got the two freshmen coming in. We'll have some veteran holdovers and Mr Coyle in year four we'll be really good. .... I think that's the storyline.
That's oven dialogue versus the microwave...Ben is old school baking. Evidently he has sold Coyle on his philosophy. Ben's words.
I don't think it matters if we only win 3 Big Ten games...Ben will be here. If he's not he'll be surprised. That's my take.
He has the powderpuff schedule to build confidence. He talks a lot about all his losing as a player and as a coach being a good thing for him...he understands it, he's used to it. It'll help us win....words to that effect is his thought.
Click to expand...
I hope your right.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
only Ben and Coyle really know what has been said behind the scenes.

But - if Coyle has told Ben that "you need to win x# of games to keep your job," then Ben has to look at that as his top priority as opposed to worrying about strength of schedule or 'Quad 1' games.

If this Gopher team was expected to be a top-half of the conference squad and an NCAA lock, then you approach the schedule differently. But if you're coaching for you job, you are going to look for wins wherever you can find them.
Click to expand...
If Coyle has set a magic number but didn’t stipulate he couldn’t cupcake the schedule that would be a pretty dumb conversation.
 

60's Guy said:
I think it is more along the lines of we are building from the ground up...we have the freshman, now sophomores, we have Christie, we got the two freshmen coming in. We'll have some veteran holdovers and Mr Coyle in year four we'll be really good. .... I think that's the storyline.
That's oven dialogue versus the microwave...Ben is old school baking. Evidently he has sold Coyle on his philosophy. Ben's words.
I don't think it matters if we only win 3 Big Ten games...Ben will be here. If he's not he'll be surprised. That's my take.
He has the powderpuff schedule to build confidence. He talks a lot about all his losing as a player and as a coach being a good thing for him...he understands it, he's used to it. It'll help us win....words to that effect is his thought.
Click to expand...

This is more or less how I view it. Keeps the “weee still heavy on underclassmen” excuse in play despite underclassmen dominating college basketball around the country. He can cite improvement or continuity with the “new” B1G. I don’t see how Ben isn’t the coach in 24-25. Even with a bottom 3 finish in the conference he’ll be back.
 

Some guy said:
If Coyle has set a magic number but didn’t stipulate he couldn’t cupcake the schedule that would be a pretty dumb conversation.
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SON never says anything “only they know” followed by wild speculation. That’s how he posts all the time.
 

UpAndUnder43 said:
SON never says anything “only they know” followed by wild speculation. That’s how he posts all the time.
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I am just expressing opinions - like everyone else on this board.

If there is a difference, I think it's that I tend to see issues as shades of gray as opposed to black and white.

Life is complicated. there are not a lot of easy, simple answers. and sports are often the same.

as I said, I think you approach scheduling based in part on expectations and the type of team you think you have. If you think you have a top-25 team, you're more willing to challenge them with stronger non-conference opponents. If you're trying to establish a program or build confidence with a younger team, then you're probably going to craft a schedule that gives them more opportunities to win games early and allow them to experience success.

and if you're a coach coming off two disappointing seasons, then you just want to win as many games as possible, because there is a chance you are coaching to keep your job.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
I am just expressing opinions - like everyone else on this board.

If there is a difference, I think it's that I tend to see issues as shades of gray as opposed to black and white.

Life is complicated. there are not a lot of easy, simple answers. and sports are often the same.

as I said, I think you approach scheduling based in part on expectations and the type of team you think you have. If you think you have a top-25 team, you're more willing to challenge them with stronger non-conference opponents. If you're trying to establish a program or build confidence with a younger team, then you're probably going to craft a schedule that gives them more opportunities to win games early and allow them to experience success.

and if you're a coach coming off two disappointing seasons, then you just want to win as many games as possible, because there is a chance you are coaching to keep your job.
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I think you are exactly right!

I am really reminded of a game from 1997 that I saw (a season that never happened, vbg). Gophers were coming off a disappointing previous season, and the coach thought he had a chance for a real good team with the players returning. The pre-season schedule had some good games (Alabama I think?) but there was a game in late December that had been of course previously scheduled. Alabama State. I do not recall the score anymore. I was in the Twin Cities for business and had a chance to see it in person. I think it was like a 80-90 point Gopher victory. 120-40 or something. The Alabama State coach complained that it was hard to see what the Gophers got out of a victory like that, a game like that. The Gopher's coach's reply was "confidence".
 

Some guy said:
If Coyle has set a magic number but didn’t stipulate he couldn’t cupcake the schedule that would be a pretty dumb conversation.
Click to expand...
Agreed. But that doesn't mean it would surprise me based on what I've heard pretty much any time Coyle speaks.
 

UpAndUnder43 said:
This is more or less how I view it. Keeps the “weee still heavy on underclassmen” excuse in play despite underclassmen dominating college basketball around the country. He can cite improvement or continuity with the “new” B1G. I don’t see how Ben isn’t the coach in 24-25. Even with a bottom 3 finish in the conference he’ll be back.
Click to expand...
You’re probably right but committing to that now is a bad idea for the program. The future is now, and expecting improved performance based on a roster getting older no longer works in the free transfer era. Low likelihood of the players giving us hope staying on to lead the improvement.
 

UpAndUnder43 said:
This is more or less how I view it. Keeps the “weee still heavy on underclassmen” excuse in play despite underclassmen dominating college basketball around the country. He can cite improvement or continuity with the “new” B1G. I don’t see how Ben isn’t the coach in 24-25. Even with a bottom 3 finish in the conference he’ll be back.
Click to expand...
You don’t see how Ben could be fired? You don’t? Come on.
 


Holy Man said:
You’re probably right but committing to that now is a bad idea for the program. The future is now, and expecting improved performance based on a roster getting older no longer works in the free transfer era. Low likelihood of the players giving us hope staying on to lead the improvement.
Click to expand...
Ben claims to be running a developmental program. If he gets more wins this year, but not enough to be convincing based on this year alone- then the question really is: Does the AD have the confidence that the right players are in place AND will stay the next year to produce the results needed to win big the following year?

I'd say that the threshold win mark in the Big10 for that question to get asked is around 7.
0-5 fired
6 wins - there needs to be extenuating circumstances
7 wins - the edge
8+ wins- he returns almost undoubtedly

I think he can get the 8+. I like what he has and what appears to be great kids with great chemistry.

2 more coming in for the fall of '24....
 

bga1 said:
Ben claims to be running a developmental program. If he gets more wins this year, but not enough to be convincing based on this year alone- then the question really is: Does the AD have the confidence that the right players are in place AND will stay the next year to produce the results needed to win big the following year?

I'd say that the threshold win mark in the Big10 for that question to get asked is around 7.
0-5 fired
6 wins - there needs to be extenuating circumstances
7 wins - the edge
8+ wins- he returns almost undoubtedly

I think he can get the 8+. I like what he has and what appears to be great kids with great chemistry.

2 more coming in for the fall of '24....
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Pretty good breakdown, Beeg.

I think 6 is kind of the dreaded gray area. But some of that also will be, which teams did we beat? Did we beat any of the top-tier, or even mid-tier teams in the conference? Or do we strike out vs. the Purdues, MSUs, Illinois' Marylands, Wisconsins, etc.?

7 wins I think no doubt he's back.

If Gophers win 8 in Big Ten, we're likely at 18-19 wins with the soft non-conference schedule. That's possibly NIT. The way things work now, that'd probably get him a contract extension.
 

SelectionSunday said:
If Gophers win 8 in Big Ten, we're likely at 18-19 wins with the soft non-conference schedule. That's possibly NIT. The way things work now, that'd probably get him a contract extension.
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That’s the really pathetic reality of the program now. NIT should not get an extension.
 

bga1 said:
Ben claims to be running a developmental program. If he gets more wins this year, but not enough to be convincing based on this year alone- then the question really is: Does the AD have the confidence that the right players are in place AND will stay the next year to produce the results needed to win big the following year?

I'd say that the threshold win mark in the Big10 for that question to get asked is around 7.
0-5 fired
6 wins - there needs to be extenuating circumstances
7 wins - the edge
8+ wins- he returns almost undoubtedly

I think he can get the 8+. I like what he has and what appears to be great kids with great chemistry.

2 more coming in for the fall of '24....
Click to expand...
You are more confident than I am.
 

Spaulding!No! said:
You don’t see how Ben could be fired? You don’t? Come on.
Click to expand...

He should have already been fired. But the fact that he hasn’t means I think they’ll give him at least 4 years. This will be his best team at Minnesota. Because Garcia and others will leave after this. And he’s projected last in the conference.
 

Holy Man said:
You’re probably right but committing to that now is a bad idea for the program. The future is now, and expecting improved performance based on a roster getting older no longer works in the free transfer era. Low likelihood of the players giving us hope staying on to lead the improvement.
Click to expand...

Couldn’t agree more. His inability to win in the portal era is more concerning than the freshman he has brought in. Because they can leave whenever. That makes this method very difficult.
 

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