Question on gophersports article. Highest ranked class ever?

[DRJ]

I realize the "best class ever" label is for the internet era.

Let me just point out that a school that has won 7 national championships probably had a few good recruits along the way.

I hope the new recruits go on to have fine careers. But, I'm not going to expect that any of them will become the next Bobby Bell, Tom Brown, Carl Eller, Paul Giel, etc.

It may have been a while ago (?), but there was a time when the Gophers had some of the best players in the country. Let's try to remember that as we shower the new recruits with praise. All things are relative.

Right on, then add Aaron Brown, Charlie Sanders, John Williams, Bob Stein, Keith Simmons, Tony Dungy, Rick Upchurch, Mark Merrill, Steve Steward, Michael Hunt, believe these last six players were on one team, and the last three were starting linebackers and all drafted either in the second or third round in the same year and played several years in the NFL. I know i have missed several other players but I get so tired of the media hype on these kids. they have not played a down yet and everyone is anointing them as the greatest class every since the internet era. We may end up having several very good college players and some pros down the road, the problem is this, how do these kids progress over the next few years, who gets hurt and has to quit playing, who drops out of school due to academic issues, who gets tired of the grueling process it takes to maintain good grades and progress on the playing field, who commits and makes a foolish error of judgement and gets kicked out of school or goes to jail, who stops playing because they have lost the love of the game, and wants to pursue something completely else in life? And then watch people on this board crucify the kid for quitting when that kid is tire of the game anymore and has no love for it and wants to move on with his life. Look at all the kids who have had to give up the game, Connelly, Gere, Keuhn, safety that got hurt against Penn State when playing for Mason, became paralized. Larry P who was a very good freshman running back playing under Cal Stoll and played with Rick Upchurch and this kid got an illiness and never played again. Many more that i no longer remember. Things happen in life and do not always go the way you plan it. the gophers recruited a kid from Florida under Brewster and kid played one or two years, quit football because his dream was to be a fireman in his home town. He got the opportunity to pursue what he wanted to do and some people questioned either his commitment or love of the game. He did what he wanted to do and to live his lifestyle for himself.

 

[MaxyJR1]

I'm fairly certain that Wisconsin has a full class. Counting their current roster on 247 minus Seniors plus everyone they signed, they're at like 89 scholarships. They need at least 4 transfers to hit the limit and more if they want to recruit more this year (which they may have, I can't find a good source for transfers). I haven't looked at the other big ten schools yet, but I'm curious as well and may take a look later today. Sadly, I can't find a good source for announced transfers, so I can't really say if a team is done recruiting.

How can you tell if players are on scholarship or not? I've been looking for a good place to find that for each team?

 

[Some Day...Maybe]

The average ranking of the players in the 2018 class is higher than the 2008 class. Also, out of the 2008 class, how many actually got into school, stayed in school, and played for at least 3 seasons? By 2011 how many of those kids were still even in school??? I have a feeling the kids in the 2018 class will turn out to be much different than many in the 2008 class.

 

[MaxyJR1]

NM

 

[swelna]

How can you tell if players are on scholarship or not? I've been looking for a good place to find that for each team?

I use the scholarship grids on 247. They seem to update periodically with transfers and what not. For example: https://247sports.com/college/wisconsin/Season/2018-Football/ScholarshipDistribution

According to this 247 grid, Wisconsin currently has 84 players on scholarship, 15 Seniors, and 19 commits (they have one more recruit on the scholarship grid, N. Carter, but he appears to be a PWO, so idk why he's there.).

Without any transfers, that means they would be up to 88 scholarships, meaning they need 3 transfers. There might be some flawed reasoning in my logic, but I'm assuming that all the players listed as Seniors are out of eligibility/aren't playing with the team next year. I figure this is ok because if they are playing next year, that just increases the number instead of decreasing it. I wish I had a source for transfers so that I could for sure know.

247 seems to update periodically with transfers, for example, DC is no longer on our scholarship grid. However, it's not consistent because George Rushing said he was transferring from the Badgers, but he is still on their grid.

 

[Hates Monikers]

The worst marketing and PR people are the ones who would say

"We are currently ranked as low at #26, and we're likely to slide if some key recruits sign with some teams behind us.
Namely, Wisconsin, Nebraska, Iowa.
Nebraska, Iowa, and Nebraska could all easily pass us up, so keep that in mind. We don't want to mislead you or have you think we aren't being fully honest."

You're right, a good PR person would never say that. But an intelligent consumer of news and information understands that it's true.

 

[Heracles]

Not really. If you want, you can. But no one will be talking about 2018 class rankings in February. We'll be worried about commits for 2019 then.

If you want to hold out to be disappointed, or to watch our ratings slide from 23 / 26/ 22, etc., to 29 / 32 / 38, etc., so you can come back and say "Told you so" or "Ugh, this isn't a very good class", you sure can.

So you're saying we should use the current ranking before all schools fill their classes because it looks better?

Is that so you can say "I told you so?"

The ranking right now isn't the real ranking. We're currently ahead of teams like Florida State, UCLA, and Nebraska. That will change. We're at 30 right now, composite-wise, and will likely be closer to 40 by the time all the kids are inked.

Still a great class, and Fleck should be lauded, but I totally disagree with cherry picking today's ranking as a meaningful statistic to compare to prior years when it's not final.

 

[Heracles]

The average ranking of the players in the 2018 class is higher than the 2008 class. Also, out of the 2008 class, how many actually got into school, stayed in school, and played for at least 3 seasons? By 2011 how many of those kids were still even in school??? I have a feeling the kids in the 2018 class will turn out to be much different than many in the 2008 class.

I don't like these comparisons. We don't know that a player rated an .86 today, for example, would be rated an .86 in 2008. The recruiting services aren't the same.

Look, I'm not trying to disparage this class. I know that'a what the bobos will start screaming immediately. I said in another thread that I'm now 100% sold on Fleck recruiting-wise. But, you can't draw legitimate conclusions from these apples to oranges comparisons, and pre-mature national/B1G ranking pushing. It's a great class, one of the best ever, let's leave it at that.

 

[MplsGopher]

I think he’s just saying “why wouldn’t you paint yourself in the best picture possible, if it’s only a white lie at worst?”.


You can’t draw conclusions from apples-to-oranges comparisons ... on an internet message board??? That’s what they’re built for!

 

[PMWinSTP]

I think he’s just saying “why wouldn’t you paint yourself in the best picture possible, if it’s only a white lie at worst?”.


You can’t draw conclusions from apples-to-oranges comparisons ... on an internet message board??? That’s what they’re built for!

Kind of like "Most wins by a new HC new to the program..." or "Six coaches in 11 years..." etc...

 

[MennoSota]

Regarding where the Gophers end up in the rankings come February...

So, at one point Fleck stated that they could sign up to 28 people. I've heard competing theories as to whether that's still true with the rule changes that allowed the early signing period or not (i.e. can you still backsign 3 players), but haven't seen anything concrete one way or the other. If it is still true, the ranking could just as easily go up rather than go down, depending who would sign.

Also, my other question is this - how many people did the Wisconsin/Nebraska/Iowa group (or basically anyone behind MN) sign vs. how many can they sign? Do we even have reason to believe they have open spots? I don't know why they wouldn't have been pushing to get everyone to sign yesterday just like Minnesota was... I think it's more of the super blue chips - the Alabama's and Clemson's and tOSU's that might have been willing to wait on a 5* kid. Not to mention a couple that flipped last minute (tOSU QB going to FL). But for all we know, everyone behind the U is done signing as well, so there'd be no reason to believe they are necessarily going to drop, right?

The couple people that said it's like celebrating at halftime, it's more like celebrating having 10 straight strikes with the two extra throws still to go. You may not get a 300, but you're going to end up with a real nice score regardless.

Now, hopefully this class can contribute more than that 2008 class. Oof, there were a lot of highly rated guys that did virtually (or actually) nothing at the U.

Really, 10 straight strikes, that's your analogy? Okay then...

 

[joshvanklomp]

Kind of like "Most wins by a new HC new to the program..." or "Six coaches in 11 years..." etc...

In a non-sports context, should the first college graduate in a family not be celebrated because it wasn't a very high standard? Most wins by a new HC in his first year is a fact, plain and simple.

Fear of failure isn't much better. Trying to rationalize your lack of excitement by saying "well ratings don't win games" or "we won't know if they will be the best class on the field" is like not being happy for a couple on its wedding day because you don't know whether the wedding will last.

 

[PMWinSTP]

In a non-sports context, should the first college graduate in a family not be celebrated because it wasn't a very high standard? Most wins by a new HC in his first year is a fact, plain and simple.

Fear of failure isn't much better. Trying to rationalize your lack of excitement by saying "well ratings don't win games" or "we won't know if they will be the best class on the field" is like not being happy for a couple on its wedding day because you don't know whether the wedding will last.

Was responding to the post's preface with other similar examples that work to get something into "the best picture possible". Both are couched and/or qualified pretty tightly for affect, taken in a vacuum with out context...and come off as almost trying too hard.

As far as your last part, I rated this class an A. Definitely exceeded my expectations. Posted many times that I'd be happy with this class in the low/mid 40s. Very impressed with how Fleck closed in the two weeks leading up to yesterday. Rubber hits the road in the Fall.

 

[joshvanklomp]

As far as your last part, I rated this class an A. Definitely exceeded my expectations. Posted many times that I'd be happy with this class in the low/mid 40s. Very impressed with how Fleck closed in the two weeks leading up to yesterday. Rubber hits the road in the Fall.

Yeah I was speaking more broadly, not directly at you.

 

[KD6-3.7]

Right on, then add Aaron Brown, Charlie Sanders, John Williams, Bob Stein, Keith Simmons, Tony Dungy, Rick Upchurch, Mark Merrill, Steve Steward, Michael Hunt, believe these last six players were on one team, and the last three were starting linebackers and all drafted either in the second or third round in the same year and played several years in the NFL. I know i have missed several other players but I get so tired of the media hype on these kids. they have not played a down yet and everyone is anointing them as the greatest class every since the internet era. We may end up having several very good college players and some pros down the road, the problem is this, how do these kids progress over the next few years, who gets hurt and has to quit playing, who drops out of school due to academic issues, who gets tired of the grueling process it takes to maintain good grades and progress on the playing field, who commits and makes a foolish error of judgement and gets kicked out of school or goes to jail, who stops playing because they have lost the love of the game, and wants to pursue something completely else in life? And then watch people on this board crucify the kid for quitting when that kid is tire of the game anymore and has no love for it and wants to move on with his life. Look at all the kids who have had to give up the game, Connelly, Gere, Keuhn, safety that got hurt against Penn State when playing for Mason, became paralized. Larry P who was a very good freshman running back playing under Cal Stoll and played with Rick Upchurch and this kid got an illiness and never played again. Many more that i no longer remember. Things happen in life and do not always go the way you plan it. the gophers recruited a kid from Florida under Brewster and kid played one or two years, quit football because his dream was to be a fireman in his home town. He got the opportunity to pursue what he wanted to do and some people questioned either his commitment or love of the game. He did what he wanted to do and to live his lifestyle for himself.

Dude, I respect you cuz you’ve been around a while and have 26 posts. That combination is something that demands respect.

With that said, this is a message board and I guarantee you no one read this wall of text. I didn’t read it and I am probably the most well read person on here.

 

[PMWinSTP]

Dude, I respect you cuz you’ve been around a while and have 26 posts. That combination is something that demands respect.

With that said, this is a message board and I guarantee you no one read this wall of text. I didn’t read it and I am probably the most well read person on here.

LMAO