Question for the "Anti-Flecksters"

Donate To GopherHole
G

Gophers1992

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 8, 2019
Messages
4,116
Reaction score
5,877
Points
113
Sorry for the lack of a better title, but I've heard the term "Fleckster" used so that's the best I can do.

I'm genuinely curious, if you had full control of the program, what would you do this offseason:

1. Would you fire PJ?
2. If so, who would you target as a replacement?
3. If not, what's your message to PJ? Win x amount of games next year or you're fired?
4. Any other changes?

I'll admit to being a bit of a PJ apologist, but I always appreciate different perspectives. Obviously PJ has taken a lot of heat this year, and rightfully so. I just want to get a feel for what people think.
 

Fleck is not going to get fired.

My message to PJ is simple: be flexible. listen to other ideas and other points of view. consider different approaches to game-planning and play-calling. Hire people you trust as OC and DC - and then get out of the way and let them do their job.

PJ has a system that he believes in, and he has had success with it. but this year showed a lot of cracks in the system. Nobody's perfect, including PJ. don't think that you have all the answers.

be willing to consider change, and be willing to give change a chance.

and Send the Special Teams coordinator on a slow boat to China!!
 

short ornery norwegian said:
Fleck is not going to get fired.

My message to PJ is simple: be flexible. listen to other ideas and other points of view. consider different approaches to game-planning and play-calling. Hire people you trust as OC and DC - and then get out of the way and let them do their job.

PJ has a system that he believes in, and he has had success with it. but this year showed a lot of cracks in the system. Nobody's perfect, including PJ. don't think that you have all the answers.

be willing to consider change, and be willing to give change a chance.

and Send the Special Teams coordinator on a slow boat to China!!
Click to expand...
Thanks for responding. I know he's not going to get fired, I'm curious how many would opt to fire him if it were an option.
 

I'm not firing Fleck. He needs good experienced coordinators especially on offense. One that can call plays and not be questioned. An OC that can identify and coach Quarterbacks. No offense to the current guy Harbaugh but he isn't it, and needs to go back to coaching Tight Ends. It was a bad idea to make him the QB coach, this season was evident of that. I don't blame the offensive line either, those guys gave the QB plenty of time to throw the ball. I'm serious when I said Marc Trestman, all he is doing is teaching law classes at University of Miami. Doubt he needs money, maybe as an Alumnus he could help the U out. That guy can coach QB's, and teach fundamentals correctly. The younger guys are the recruiters. This head coach needs a X and O's guru. Fleck is good at the CEO and sales stuff including engaging fans.
 
Last edited:

1. Would you fire PJ?
No. One bad season does not warrant firing.

2. If so, who would you target as a replacement?
If my answer above was yes, I'd roll out a freaking fleet of Brinks trucks to try and poach Kalen DeBoer from Washington. He's young-ish. He's a winner, and his roots are in the area, being from Milbank, SD and playing and coaching at Sioux Falls. Not to be Sid-like, but returning to an area close to home may help sway someone.

3. If not, what's your message to PJ? Win x amount of games next year or you're fired?
I'd grill him specifically on what his plans are to make the team better and win more games and react from there. I don't believe ultimatums do much good.

4. Any other changes?
Yes. Since I'm the AD, I'd fire Ben Johnson immediately and find a new hoops coach. That's a more pressing problem.
 


disco said:
1. Would you fire PJ?
No. One bad season does not warrant firing.

2. If so, who would you target as a replacement?
If my answer above was yes, I'd roll out a freaking fleet of Brinks trucks to try and poach Kalen DeBoer from Washington. He's young-ish. He's a winner, and his roots are in the area, being from Milbank, SD and playing and coaching at Sioux Falls. Not to be Sid-like, but returning to an area close to home may help sway someone.

3. If not, what's your message to PJ? Win x amount of games next year or you're fired?
I'd grill him specifically on what his plans are to make the team better and win more games and react from there. I don't believe ultimatums do much good.

4. Any other changes?
Yes. Since I'm the AD, I'd fire Ben Johnson immediately and find a new hoops coach. That's a more pressing problem.
Click to expand...
This made me lol, thank you.
 

"You and i both know this was a bad season. You've had enough success here to earn the benefit of the doubt that this year was a blip and not a new normal. Go out there next year and prove me right."
 

gopherdudepart2 said:
I'm not firing Fleck. He needs good experienced coordinators especially on offense. One that can call plays and not be questioned. An OC that can identify and coach Quarterbacks. No offense to the current guy Harbaugh but he isn't it, and needs to go back to coaching Tight Ends. It was a bad idea to make him the QB coach, this season was evident of that. I don't blame the offensive line either, those guys gave the QB plenty of time to throw the ball. I'm serious when I said Marc Trestman, all he is doing is teaching law classes at University of Miami. Doubt he needs money, maybe as an Alumnus he could help the U out. That guy can coach QB's, and teach fundamentals correctly. The younger guys are the recruiters. This head coach needs a X and O's guru. Fleck is good at the CEO and sales stuff including engaging fans.
Click to expand...
Why not just find an offensive coordinator who can call a great game? Then find a QB coach who can help our QB improve. This whole idea that the QB coach has to be the O coordinator is stupid.
 

bleedsmaroonandgold said:
"You and i both know this was a bad season. You've had enough success here to earn the benefit of the doubt that this year was a blip and not a new normal. Go out there next year and prove me right."
Click to expand...
Yes!! This take seems to be the norm among sane people. Let’s see what he can do next year and then let the chips fall where they may. I don’t think one bad year warrants the pink slip.
 



Coyle isn’t going to fire him. I would rather he not be our football coach because I can’t stand our game plan and game coaching. No choice but to hope he changes his best in 24.
 


Gophers1992 said:
Sorry for the lack of a better title, but I've heard the term "Fleckster" used so that's the best I can do.

I'm genuinely curious, if you had full control of the program, what would you do this offseason:

1. Would you fire PJ?
Click to expand...
No
Gophers1992 said:
2. If so, who would you target as a replacement?
Click to expand...
Innovative OCs from the power 5 and Offensive play caller HCs from G5 or FCS
Gophers1992 said:
3. If not, what's your message to PJ? Win x amount of games next year or you're fired?
Click to expand...
There isn’t a magic number. Probably 4 wins or fewer next year and he is gone. For me. Probably needs 6+ wins next year to not enter 2024 on the definite hotseat. I kind of think we should give him a 3 year rebuild (including 2023) to show he is a better shot to make a run at 10 wins compared to an unknown. This means he probably needs 8+ wins in at least one of the next two regular seasons for me to have confidence.
If we won 5 in 24 then 7 in 25….7 or fewer probably is the end for me in 2026. If that makes sense
Gophers1992 said:
4. Any other changes?
Click to expand...
If I am going to force changes on fleck, then he shouldn’t be the coach. If he is the coach, he should get to make his own choice.
Gophers1992 said:
I'll admit to being a bit of a PJ apologist, but I always appreciate different perspectives. Obviously PJ has taken a lot of heat this year, and rightfully so. I just want to get a feel for what people think.
Click to expand...
But I’m not anti fleck

And numbers don’t tell the whole story. So I’m sure there is a scenario that we don’t win 8 any of the next 3 years and I don’t think we should firing the coach. And I’m sure there is a scenario where we win 8 next year and I still want to fire the coach in 2025. Vibes are bad right now. But not bad enough for me to think a random P5 Oc is the better choice.
 
Last edited:

Gopherchase said:
Coyle isn’t going to fire him. I would rather he not be our football coach because I can’t stand our game plan and game coaching. No choice but to hope he changes his best in 24.
Click to expand...
So you would fire him if given the option. Who’s your replacement, or at least what type of guy.
 



Gophers1992 said:
Sorry for the lack of a better title, but I've heard the term "Fleckster" used so that's the best I can do.

I'm genuinely curious, if you had full control of the program, what would you do this offseason:

1. Would you fire PJ?
Click to expand...
No
Gophers1992 said:
2. If so, who would you target as a replacement?
Click to expand...
N/A
Gophers1992 said:
3. If not, what's your message to PJ? Win x amount of games next year or you're fired?
Click to expand...
Hire an OC you trust and never have any say in our offensive strategies again
Gophers1992 said:
4. Any other changes?
Click to expand...
The shtick is over.
Gophers1992 said:
I'll admit to being a bit of a PJ apologist, but I always appreciate different perspectives. Obviously PJ has taken a lot of heat this year, and rightfully so. I just want to get a feel for what people think.
Click to expand...
 

Not my job to pick a replacement. Someone who doesn’t share an O philosophy with Woody Hayes would be the first qualification that’s a low bar. I think overall PJ is kind of an inside joke for college football coaches. They chuckle at his high jinx and schtick. Generally nobody’s lining up to come coach with him here. I’d start by looking at the coordinators for the top 10 or 15 teams and go from there.
 

Kalen DeBoer will never come here.

You don't go downwards like that, unless you've failed at your job, but then that removes all the desire to hire him in the first place.

We will always have to pull upward, from MAC, etc. Kill and Fleck both came from there. Our next coach should be the same.
 

Gopherchase said:
Not my job to pick a replacement. Someone who doesn’t share an O philosophy with Woody Hayes would be the first qualification that’s a low bar. I think overall PJ is kind of an inside joke for college football coaches. They chuckle at his high jinx and schtick. Generally nobody’s lining up to come coach with him here. I’d start by looking at the coordinators for the top 10 or 15 teams and go from there.
Click to expand...
For sure.
 

1. Would you fire PJ?
2. If so, who would you target as a replacement?
3. If not, what's your message to PJ? Win x amount of games next year or you're fired?
4. Any other changes?

No firing this year, but if we lose 6 of the first 8 next year in a bad fashion. I'd be OK with that.

I Would look at FCS, can be an underrated division in my opinion, both coaches and players.

Status Quo is not good enough, need to see upgrades across the board, change your best. How you do it is on you.

Not sure about this going after coordinator thing. I don't think they have much leeway in what they run, coach wants control, in a pinch he can fire the coordinator for cover. Coach has offense control in my opinion.
 

MplsGopher said:
Kalen DeBoer will never come here.

You don't go downwards like that, unless you've failed at your job, but then that removes all the desire to hire him in the first place.

We will always have to pull upward, from MAC, etc. Kill and Fleck both came from there. Our next coach should be the same.
Click to expand...
Of course not, but I can dream. And there was no price limit in the initial question.
 

Anyone who has followed this program for any length of time would not fire PJ. He does need to find a solid OC.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
Fleck is not going to get fired.

My message to PJ is simple: be flexible. listen to other ideas and other points of view.
Click to expand...

A football coach at a B1G school is coaching and recruiting and selling the program to boosters, doing PR in the form of radio and TV and social media, visiting hospitals, planning itineraries for team travel, dreaming up ways to keep the team motivated, working with assistants in design of game plans for upcoming opponents, reading and digesting scouting reports, spending hours in film study (of opponents, recruiting targets, his own team's practices and games, transfer targets), coming up with pre-game and halftime pep talks, hiring and firing assistants, and on and on. In addition, a younger coach like Fleck has kids and a wife that need and deserve a good chunk of his time and attention back at home. He's also now dealing with the portal, planning his scholarship count and roster makeup, while being involved in all sorts of minutiae such as team nutrition, making sure 18-20-something year old athletes go to class, etc.

Yes, he should find probably also find time to "listen to other ideas and points of view" as well.

My question: how much of his time should he dedicate to that, and at the expense of which items I've mentioned?

To whom should he listen? Surely not everyone and anyone. Which of the many, many voices coming at him are really worth listening to, based on his limited, available time?

Should he sit down with, say, Dan Barriero? Patrick Reusse? LaVelle E. Neal III? Maybe he should hold a town hall meeting with angry Gopher Hole posters?

How many of us here really have as much expertise as we seem to think we do?

How many passes vs. how many runs... should we take a vote, and send the results to Fleck, and assume he'll say, "WOW! These folks have finally opened my eyes! MORE PASSING!!! That's the answer! Make my offense look more like every other offense! That will obviously catch the opponent flat-footed!"
 
Last edited:

Gophers1992 said:
Sorry for the lack of a better title, but I've heard the term "Fleckster" used so that's the best I can do.

I'm genuinely curious, if you had full control of the program, what would you do this offseason:

1. Would you fire PJ?
2. If so, who would you target as a replacement?
3. If not, what's your message to PJ? Win x amount of games next year or you're fired?
4. Any other changes?

I'll admit to being a bit of a PJ apologist, but I always appreciate different perspectives. Obviously PJ has taken a lot of heat this year, and rightfully so. I just want to get a feel for what people think.
Click to expand...
I'll start by saying I think PJ Fleck was a terrible hire in the first place. The Flecktites will never change my mind on that. Relative to the coaches he purportedly was to be a step up from, he has been more of the same with an ego that is far ahead of his accomplishments, and perhaps the only offense in the NCAA that gives Iowa a run for their money on how boring and plodding it is.

1. Not at this point. We'll see if his reactions to this season are a desperate knee-jerk attempt to save his job, or him waking up the reality that he needs to change and is capable of doing it. Firing coaches doesn't solve anything if you don't have a plan to replace them and we don't have a plan right now - and I wouldn't let Coyle hire another coach at the U.

2. N/A (although I feel obliged to say Tony Dungy here - A Gopher Hole Tradition since 1992?)

3. My message would be three fold:

  1. Fire Mark Coyle - send a message that mediocrity won't be accepted. Remove his safety blanket.
  2. Provide whatever resources necessary to get someone who knows how to coach Offense on the staff
  3. Make it clear that if the offense isn't in the top half of the B1G in terms of yardage per game in conference, he'd be in danger of being fired. Prior to this season, he was able to do that +/- most years, actually led the conf. in 2019. The schedule this year was significantly more challenging and won't get better, but he needs to return to that neighborhood

4. Set a minimum standard for recruiting at the signing deadline. He was hired because of his
recruiting. The class looks to be one of this best, but this won't be the first time it looked amazing in July, but in the bottom half of the bottom half of the B1G when all is said and done.
 

Fleck is his own man, and he doesn't bow to coaching trends. I like that. I like the fact that his offense isn't just another version of what everybody is running. He also sticks to his guns. I find that admirable.

In the end, as he says (and is constantly ridiculed for saying it, by the way!) it's all on him — success, failure, or in-between. Fleck will rise or fall depending on the success or failure of this program.

I don't know him, but I'd bet he wouldn't choose to have it any other way.

Meanwhile, we fans, the media, and whomever else can weigh in and second-guess ourselves into a stupor, if we choose to.
 

Fleck is not getting fired. By the time he walks away from the program years from now, of his own volition, he will be making $10M per year and have convinced the U to buy at least 2 monorails. He could win 3 games next year and half of this board would still fight to the death for him. I think this board rows the boat more faithfully than the team.
 


1. Would you fire PJ?
Not yet

2. If so, who would you target as a replacement?
N/A

3. If not, what's your message to PJ? Win x amount of games next year or you're fired?
5, but would need to see 6 or better in 2025.

4. Any other changes?
I'd like to see him wear his capri pants during the game.
 

RememberMurray said:
Fleck is his own man, and he doesn't bow to coaching trends. I like that. I like the fact that his offense isn't just another version of what everybody is running. He also sticks to his guns. I find that admirable.

In the end, as he says (and is constantly ridiculed for saying it, by the way!) it's all on him — success, failure, or in-between. Fleck will rise or fall depending on the success or failure of this program.

I don't know him, but I'd bet he wouldn't choose to have it any other way.

Meanwhile, we fans, the media, and whomever else can weigh in and second-guess ourselves into a stupor, if we choose to.
Click to expand...
Huh?
 

Spoofin said:
I’d like the new coach to place higher importance in the spiritual aspect of the players.
Click to expand...
This is a football team - you are focusing on the goals. Our team needs to be about high GPA and graduation rates, not spirituality. Some on here foolishly think the goal is to win - the clearly don't understand football.
 

RememberMurray said:
Fleck is his own man, and he doesn't bow to coaching trends. I like that. I like the fact that his offense isn't just another version of what everybody is running. He also sticks to his guns. I find that admirable.
Click to expand...
RememberMurray said:
Fleck is his own man, and he doesn't bow to coaching trends. I like that. I like the fact that his offense isn't just another version of what everybody is running. He also sticks to his guns. I find that admirable.

In the end, as he says (and is constantly ridiculed for saying it, by the way!) it's all on him — success, failure, or in-between. Fleck will rise or fall depending on the success or failure of this program.

I don't know him, but I'd bet he wouldn't choose to have it any other way.

Meanwhile, we fans, the media, and whomever else can weigh in and second-guess ourselves into a stupor, if we choose to.
Click to expand...
cukoo for coco puffs type nonsense.
 


You must log in or register to reply here.



Top Bottom