Putting On My Most Optimistic Cap

60's Guy

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 29, 2010
Messages
7,242
Reaction score
2,244
Points
113
. … for the rest of the season.

Here are the teams I think the Gophers can beat. Not saying they will beat, but COULD beat.

Indiana at home — last night’s impressive win @ Illinois not withstanding, I still think Hoosiers are a little soft. And no Race T or Xavier J.

Maryland at home — I still don’t buy Terps.

Nebraska on road — improving, but they’re still Nebraska, our Weakling Wednesday comrades.

Northwestern on road — usually stout defensively but no offensive juggernaut.

Wisconsin at home — style of play invites close games. I honestly think this is the most likely of the 5 opportunities.

Question is, how many of these 5 can we get?

Am I crazy?
We could beat anybody but the chances are not good. We have surpassed my New Years wins projection. Beating anybody will be an upset and surprising but getting a couple of those 5 has to be possible...just wouldn't wager it.
You ain't crazy to think they can win.
 

howeda7

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 22, 2008
Messages
71,066
Reaction score
26,581
Points
113
Hopefully, Coyle didn't hear the coach say...after 19 weeks of practice my guys don't know the plays. I mean come on, in high school if you are lucky, you have 10 days before your first game and then you are on the treadmill of two games a week.
Not to mention you get less than half the time per day with the players.
Ben was never a head coach (HS or otherwise) before this....
 


kix4kix

Active member
Joined
Nov 18, 2011
Messages
382
Reaction score
211
Points
43
We must agree on the definition of could, sure I could find a billion dollars in my kitchen sink tomorrow morning, the chances aren't technically zero. I mean we did beat Ohio state who I must admit would have bet money I didn't even have on us losing, but what's likely to happen is us winning another game or two max.
 

Gopher Teeth

Fear the Teeth
Joined
Nov 12, 2008
Messages
1,089
Reaction score
834
Points
113
I need some time to answer this. After the second half of Illinois and the Purdue game, I am really questioning our coaching. I really like Ben and want him to be successful, but what we are doing offensively creates very few good looks and we struggle to shoot already. There is so much standing around and so little movement. The players are so careless with the ball, and the shot selection is terrible - however, there is so little movement that any shot they are getting is contested.

Further, defensively, the effort is very suspect. Williams Arena historically is a very easy crowd. If the Gophers play hard the place rallies behind them. However, again, the effort is so suspect.

My hope is they can turn this around, but they need to get some movement on offense. Get rid of the two-man games and keeping the ball to one side of the floor. They need to start moving the ball, running an offense that creates some looks. They are not making defenses work at all.
The offense is very similar to the last two coaches that we fired, is that the hiring criteria the U applies to coaching hires?
AD: Tell me about your offensive scheme
Coaching Candidate: I like a lot of standing around, the ball stays on one side of the court, mix in one guy dribbling and everyone else watches.
AD: Perfect, you sound like a true Minnesota coach. We have a proud history of offenses that stand around and no ball movement, we have no interest in breaking that tradition, welcome aboard.
 


bc2211

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 29, 2013
Messages
2,082
Reaction score
1,255
Points
113
The offense is very similar to the last two coaches that we fired, is that the hiring criteria the U applies to coaching hires?
AD: Tell me about your offensive scheme
Coaching Candidate: I like a lot of standing around, the ball stays on one side of the court, mix in one guy dribbling and everyone else watches.
AD: Perfect, you sound like a true Minnesota coach. We have a proud history of offenses that stand around and no ball movement, we have no interest in breaking that tradition, welcome aboard.
“I run an NBA-style offense that puts the ball in my best player’s hands”
 

forever a gopher

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 20, 2008
Messages
2,580
Reaction score
2,063
Points
113
This.

Edey was allowed to move about 6 steps per defensive possession. The passes were all 5ft. The ball never moves quickly. There is no skip passes, no movement. Allowing a dominant shot blocker/contester to stand in the paint eliminates any easy buckets. Not moving and passing eliminates nearly any open shot. Impossible to score much this way.
Edey is also slow and comes up the floor late. I have to believe Purdue is susceptible to a “run and gun” type of team. If we were not slow as molasses, you could have turned up the speed and probably stolen a few more buckets. Not saying they would have beaten Purdue, but maybe scored more than 12 points in the first half. The team speed somewhat limits what they can do. Wisky has a deliberate style that uses this and gets them good shots. We don’t.
 






jamiche

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 13, 2008
Messages
23,502
Reaction score
3,801
Points
113
The gophers were completely intimidated by Edey, even when he wasn't on the floor. It was obvious that they didn't expect their shots to go in.

Part of Johnson's problem on offense is that he doesn't have any good passers. His point guard is really a lead guard and his three best offensive weapons (Cooper, Battle and Garcia) are iso players, so the offense naturally stagnates. Johnson could design the most robust, ball flow offense in the world but he doesn't have the players who could run it. Additionally, they are slow and unathletic. Put it all together and they are super easy to defend. These are Johnson's players, so it's on him, but I'm not sure there's any "scheme" that unlocks this.
 

Bordergopher

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 19, 2010
Messages
1,390
Reaction score
280
Points
83
The offense is very similar to the last two coaches that we fired, is that the hiring criteria the U applies to coaching hires?
AD: Tell me about your offensive scheme
Coaching Candidate: I like a lot of standing around, the ball stays on one side of the court, mix in one guy dribbling and everyone else watches.
AD: Perfect, you sound like a true Minnesota coach. We have a proud history of offenses that stand around and no ball movement, we have no interest in breaking that tradition, welcome aboard.
😂😂
 

Some guy

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 1, 2014
Messages
18,077
Reaction score
8,231
Points
113
. … for the rest of the season.

Here are the teams I think the Gophers can beat. Not saying they will beat, but COULD beat.

Indiana at home — last night’s impressive win @ Illinois not withstanding, I still think Hoosiers are a little soft. And no Race T or Xavier J.

Maryland at home — I still don’t buy Terps.

Nebraska on road — improving, but they’re still Nebraska, our Weakling Wednesday comrades.

Northwestern on road — usually stout defensively but no offensive juggernaut.

Wisconsin at home — style of play invites close games. I honestly think this is the most likely of the 5 opportunities.

Question is, how many of these 5 can we get?

Am I crazy?
You’re not crazy for suggesting there are 5 games the team can win.
You would be crazy if you suggested they’d win all 5.

I fully expect them to win somewhere between 0-3 of those games.

I would pick 0-2 as the most likely
 



short ornery norwegian

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 9, 2011
Messages
15,816
Reaction score
8,478
Points
113
I still think the question remains:

how much of this is on the coaches and how much is on the players.

If the coach is telling the players to "move the ball" and the players aren't doing it, what the bleep do you do?

I hate to say this, but I'm starting to think that this team does not have the highest basketball IQ.

this group could really use a hard-nosed, heady player to be a floor leader.

if Johnson cannot find a true PG in the portal for next year, then I suspect the anti-Johnson brigade will get their wish, because I don't think Johnson can survive another season like this one. And I like the guy!
 

bga1

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 20, 2008
Messages
51,381
Reaction score
12,375
Points
113
You’re not crazy for suggesting there are 5 games the team can win.
You would be crazy if you suggested they’d win all 5.

I fully expect them to win somewhere between 0-3 of those games.

I would pick 0-2 as the most likely
2-1/2 would send most people to the under
 



gopherbadgerman

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 3, 2009
Messages
3,484
Reaction score
812
Points
113
. … for the rest of the season.

Here are the teams I think the Gophers can beat. Not saying they will beat, but COULD beat.

Indiana at home — last night’s impressive win @ Illinois not withstanding, I still think Hoosiers are a little soft. And no Race T or Xavier J.

Maryland at home — I still don’t buy Terps.

Nebraska on road — improving, but they’re still Nebraska, our Weakling Wednesday comrades.

Northwestern on road — usually stout defensively but no offensive juggernaut.

Wisconsin at home — style of play invites close games. I honestly think this is the most likely of the 5 opportunities.

Question is, how many of these 5 can we get?

Am I crazy?
1
 

Formerswish

Active member
Joined
Jan 27, 2022
Messages
117
Reaction score
215
Points
43
The gophers were completely intimidated by Edey, even when he wasn't on the floor. It was obvious that they didn't expect their shots to go in.

Part of Johnson's problem on offense is that he doesn't have any good passers. His point guard is really a lead guard and his three best offensive weapons (Cooper, Battle and Garcia) are iso players, so the offense naturally stagnates. Johnson could design the most robust, ball flow offense in the world but he doesn't have the players who could run it. Additionally, they are slow and unathletic. Put it all together and they are super easy to defend. These are Johnson's players, so it's on him, but I'm not sure there's any "scheme" that unlocks this.
I agree. We've got a lot of people here who think Johnson's coaching is complete crap. It is all on him because of the players he's brought in, and I would also argue with anyone about the challenges he had the first couple of years bringing in quality players. Anyone who knows basketball would say that he showed he could coach last year with a severely outmanned team. Did he become a complete idiot since last year?

He now has a team with a number of guys who don't pass well, who don't shoot it well, who aren't particularly athletic, and it makes running ANY offense difficult. The players that we expected to lead the team this year have often underperformed. As a coach, you can't make a lot of these things happen immediately-the players have to play better. This doesn't mean you give a complete pass to Johnson-if he doesn't show quite a bit of improvement with this team by the end of next year, he should be on the hot seat. And If he can get an elite rim protector in Evans, a point guard through the portal, and if Christie proves to be solid, along with the improvement from this year's players, things are very likely a whole lot better than this year's product. It needs to be. But this guy has shown he can recruit, and he's shown he can coach. Players need to play better..
 

kg21

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 25, 2021
Messages
13,270
Reaction score
6,046
Points
113
big 10 wins don't matter much at this point.

It's seeing improvement from the players. I'm currently not seeing it at all.

Oh well
 

GopherWeatherGuy

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 24, 2013
Messages
13,101
Reaction score
9,465
Points
113
I agree. We've got a lot of people here who think Johnson's coaching is complete crap. It is all on him because of the players he's brought in, and I would also argue with anyone about the challenges he had the first couple of years bringing in quality players. Anyone who knows basketball would say that he showed he could coach last year with a severely outmanned team. Did he become a complete idiot since last year?

He now has a team with a number of guys who don't pass well, who don't shoot it well, who aren't particularly athletic, and it makes running ANY offense difficult. The players that we expected to lead the team this year have often underperformed. As a coach, you can't make a lot of these things happen immediately-the players have to play better. This doesn't mean you give a complete pass to Johnson-if he doesn't show quite a bit of improvement with this team by the end of next year, he should be on the hot seat. And If he can get an elite rim protector in Evans, a point guard through the portal, and if Christie proves to be solid, along with the improvement from this year's players, things are very likely a whole lot better than this year's product. It needs to be. But this guy has shown he can recruit, and he's shown he can coach. Players need to play better..

Maybe the coaching looked better than it was last season because most of the production came from experienced guards who could pass and shoot. The one thing that had me somewhat optimistic last season was that the roster was guard heavy, and that's the most important position in college basketball. Apparently that was only due to what Ben could land in the portal.

I don't know how you can say he's shown he can recruit, and he can coach when we were a last place team last season, and it's nearly a lock we'll be a last place team this season. They were blown out in the majority of the B1G games last season, and have been blown out in most so far this season. That doesn't happen if you can at least recruit or coach, let alone both. I've seen nothing to suggest he's good enough at either to be competitive in the B1G.
 


Formerswish

Active member
Joined
Jan 27, 2022
Messages
117
Reaction score
215
Points
43
Maybe the coaching looked better than it was last season because most of the production came from experienced guards who could pass and shoot. The one thing that had me somewhat optimistic last season was that the roster was guard heavy, and that's the most important position in college basketball. Apparently that was only due to what Ben could land in the portal.

I don't know how you can say he's shown he can recruit, and he can coach when we were a last place team last season, and it's nearly a lock we'll be a last place team this season. They were blown out in the majority of the B1G games last season, and have been blown out in most so far this season. That doesn't happen if you can at least recruit or coach, let alone both. I've seen nothing to suggest he's good enough at either to be competitive in the B1G.
I agree with you that guard is the most important position in college ball. Our guard play has been poor. And, I would say that he can coach based on what he showed last year (with VERY little talent-with that talent level where else were you going to finish?), in addition to what I've seen situationally on the court, what happens play-wise after timeouts, and in the brief time I've heard him in the huddle. I don't think you can argue too much about recruiting when he has one of the top centers in the country and the #1 recruit in Illinois coming next year. We don't see that level of recruiting around here much-and I realize it's just one year.

I think the most important consideration is that he's in the middle of his 2nd year, and I really don't think he had a good opportunity or the time to recruit a high quality class his first year. As I said, this year's veteran players have played poorly, and the freshmen have been very inconsistent. I know it's hard on everyone's ego to finish at the bottom of the Big Ten, and let's see where he's at with the team at the end of next year and give him a bit more time to develop some success. Not too much time, but more time.
 

bga1

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 20, 2008
Messages
51,381
Reaction score
12,375
Points
113
I agree. We've got a lot of people here who think Johnson's coaching is complete crap. It is all on him because of the players he's brought in, and I would also argue with anyone about the challenges he had the first couple of years bringing in quality players. Anyone who knows basketball would say that he showed he could coach last year with a severely outmanned team. Did he become a complete idiot since last year?

He now has a team with a number of guys who don't pass well, who don't shoot it well, who aren't particularly athletic, and it makes running ANY offense difficult. The players that we expected to lead the team this year have often underperformed. As a coach, you can't make a lot of these things happen immediately-the players have to play better. This doesn't mean you give a complete pass to Johnson-if he doesn't show quite a bit of improvement with this team by the end of next year, he should be on the hot seat. And If he can get an elite rim protector in Evans, a point guard through the portal, and if Christie proves to be solid, along with the improvement from this year's players, things are very likely a whole lot better than this year's product. It needs to be. But this guy has shown he can recruit, and he's shown he can coach. Players need to play better..
We really had two quality Big Ten players last year and one of them is still with us. This team is much more athletic than last year's team. What we don't have is a guard who makes plays. Willis did that last year.

This year: Garcia, Battle, Payne, Cooper, Ola Joseph are probably our 5 best players-zero guard play
Last year: Battle, Sutherlin, Loewe, Willis, Stephens were the guys- zero inside presence

Sure the players have to play better. The coach needs to put together a balanced roster.
 

MNJay

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 8, 2022
Messages
536
Reaction score
390
Points
63
It's so laughable & predictable to see guys on here mouthing-off about Ben's coaching ability. And everything else. So 100% predictable. A pea-brain could knee-jerk make all the exact same arguments. This ALWAYS happens.

Win, and the coach is a genius. Lose, and the coach is an idiot. The circumstances are NEVER considered. Pea-brain knee-jerk.
 

Formerswish

Active member
Joined
Jan 27, 2022
Messages
117
Reaction score
215
Points
43
We really had two quality Big Ten players last year and one of them is still with us. This team is much more athletic than last year's team. What we don't have is a guard who makes plays. Willis did that last year.

This year: Garcia, Battle, Payne, Cooper, Ola Joseph are probably our 5 best players-zero guard play
Last year: Battle, Sutherlin, Loewe, Willis, Stephens were the guys- zero inside presence

Sure the players have to play better. The coach needs to put together a balanced roster.
Absolutely true, there is a desperate need to find a guard that can shoot, penetrate, and give opportunities to others. And last year we often had 4 shooters on the court, which gave much better spacing and room to drive. And the addition of a guard like this through the portal and a rim-protecting center can make a very big difference. I would predict that if/when this happens, Johnson will all of a sudden become a much better coach!
 


Dupreefor3

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 9, 2022
Messages
405
Reaction score
442
Points
63
I agree with you that guard is the most important position in college ball. Our guard play has been poor. And, I would say that he can coach based on what he showed last year (with VERY little talent-with that talent level where else were you going to finish?), in addition to what I've seen situationally on the court, what happens play-wise after timeouts, and in the brief time I've heard him in the huddle. I don't think you can argue too much about recruiting when he has one of the top centers in the country and the #1 recruit in Illinois coming next year. We don't see that level of recruiting around here much-and I realize it's just one year.

I think the most important consideration is that he's in the middle of his 2nd year, and I really don't think he had a good opportunity or the time to recruit a high quality class his first year. As I said, this year's veteran players have played poorly, and the freshmen have been very inconsistent. I know it's hard on everyone's ego to finish at the bottom of the Big Ten, and let's see where he's at with the team at the end of next year and give him a bit more time to develop some success. Not too much time, but more time.
Last year if Robbins, Gabe and Johnson stay, put those three with Loewe, Stephens, Willis, Battle, Sutherlin and Curry. TT and Thiem as deep reserves. Even with Fox and Ihnen out, the top six last year with three hold overs and it's a different situation. Think Ben brought in good players his first year, unfortunately nothing was retained
 

bc2211

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 29, 2013
Messages
2,082
Reaction score
1,255
Points
113
who said this? Just curious.
Oh I was just joking about what someone might say in an interview when they have are describing their offensive philosophy with no tape to show.
 

MennoSota

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 14, 2015
Messages
11,504
Reaction score
2,927
Points
113
Last year if Robbins, Gabe and Johnson stay, put those three with Loewe, Stephens, Willis, Battle, Sutherlin and Curry. TT and Thiem as deep reserves. Even with Fox and Ihnen out, the top six last year with three hold overs and it's a different situation. Think Ben brought in good players his first year, unfortunately nothing was retained
Wasn't Robbins out with a foot injury most or all of last season?
 




Top Bottom