Prove me wrong GopherHolers

[thailleagle]

I agree that the "Fire Kill!" is a little overboard but I can't believe its posters really thinking we should bring back Mason. Thought it was a joke at first but now I see they were serious... wow...

 

[ruppertflywheel]

Rup, are you more disappointed in the team play on the field or the fan reactions?

Fans have a right to voice their opinion ; especially the season ticket holders. I thought the Iowa game we took two steps backwards. I watched North Carolina and Miami last night and even though NC lost on a last second touchdown by Miami , I was impressed with NC's speed an play calling. I see none of that with Limey calling the plays. Watch tomorrow how much faster Northwestern plays versus the Gophers. I don't expect us to get a play off every 11 seconds like Oregon, but we're really slow in that regard. This is a big game for Kill and the staff. We're playing a banged up Cat team. I don't see a better opportunity for a win in the next 3 games

 

[Great Plains Gopher]

It's almost never as good or bad as people make it out to be.

Jim Wacker?

 

[Spoofin]

Fans have a right to voice their opinion ; especially the season ticket holders. I thought the Iowa game we took two steps backwards. I watched North Carolina and Miami last night and even though NC lost on a last second touchdown by Miami , I was impressed with NC's speed an play calling.

This sums it up. One game is not a season. Don't read too much into a single game. UNC was atrocious before last night. They likely will be again. The Iowa game may prove to be a low point for us - it doesn't mean 0-8 or that the staff is "in over their heads". Let the season play out and just enjoy the ride. Go Gophers!

 

[Great Plains Gopher]

Unfortunately, with the way Gopher fans read into a single game as if it was 10 data points, I see only 2 possible scenarios this weekend. I hope I'm wrong....

1. We play poorly. This is blamed on Kill not being there, coaching staff being over their heads, etc. Result: Folks wanting Kill out.

2. We play well. This leads folks to believe Claeys is a better coach than Kill, the team plays to his 'style' better, etc. Result: Folks want Kill to step down.

IMO, the sentiment about Kill has changed dramatically based on the Iowa game. It was an ugly game - poorly played and poorly coached, but it was just one game. At the risk of starting another Mason thread, I choose to look at that as an off day and in that light find it hard to deny the progress this team is making under Kill. I am hoping some Gopher Fans can let the season and Kill situation play out instead of turning GH into a blood bath about Jer on Saturday.

Win two and go to a bowl and most of the criticism will go away. Win three B10 games next year and Kill probably gets a fifth year. Problem is that the Gophers have not looked good on offense this year, especially in the first halves of games - and over three years have a 4-14 B10 record that could become 4-20 or 5-19 this year. The coaching decision to start Nelson against Iowa was weird, given Leidner's two hot games in a row, and paid no dividends. Another game day seizure could end it for Kill, too. So things aren't rosy. As you point out, Claeys may get the credit if the Gophers come to life on offense and win Saturday (which is doubtful). Still, I predicted 5-7 this year and have called for five full years for Kill, barring his resignation over health issues.

 

[50PoundHead]

Win two and go to a bowl and most of the criticism will go away. Win three B10 games next year and Kill probably gets a fifth year. Problem is that the Gophers have not looked good on offense this year, especially in the first halves of games - and over three years have a 4-14 B10 record that could become 4-20 or 5-19 this year. The coaching decision to start Nelson against Iowa was weird, given Leidner's two hot games in a row, and paid no dividends. Another game day seizure could end it for Kill, too. So things aren't rosy. As you point out, Claeys may get the credit if the Gophers come to life on offense and win Saturday (which is doubtful). Still, I predicted 5-7 this year and have called for five full years for Kill, barring his resignation over health issues.

Not to hijack, but I think that's part of the problem. I would rather not go to a bowl if I knew that next year we would be a better team. I realize that's not mutually exclusive, but I don't think we're taking the long view and we need to. It's more complicating that what I've laid out because failure to get to a bowl could have a negative effect on recruiting, but if we're doing this brick-by-brick, we have to realize that it is going to take more than a couple of years to construct the whole wall.

 

[Clark W. Griswold]

I can agree with Kill and this staff should be given more time but people are allowed to have formed an opinion about whether this head coach and staff can turn the program around after 2.5 years into it.

What I don't understand is people being called out and being told you can't have an opinion until after a certain amount of time has passed. It's an opinion and there is no required time period to form one. It's up to Kill and his staff to prove they can turn the program around.

Final judgements shouldn't be made game to game. Lets look at the whole body of work. Not trying diminish anyone's opinion but most post game reactions are emotional and not rational.

 

[killme]

I'd like to make some comments about the Iowa and Michigan games. I've watched every play of every game since Kill arrived in Minnesota, with the exception of a couple that weren't televised. Those games I followed on Gamecast. The progress on the field this season has been easily evident. The players are exhibiting the style and attitude I've seen in Kill's previous stops. They're more comfortable with the system and the adjustments seem to be coming more easily. And two other areas that increase chances for success are team speed and playing hard. And, knowing Jerry and his staff, it's apparent to me the kids love them, believe in them.

The Iowa game was a big one and it's been suggested that the team might have let the magnitude of the moment get to them. They were so hyped up, they didn't perform up to their potential. Part of that responsibility falls on Kill and his staff, but rather than down-play the game, they fed into it...because, I believe, this program and these players are going to have to get used to that. It was a tough lesson, but a lesson nonetheless. And, in my opinion, even though it seemed Iowa was dominating, if Nelson completes that pass it's a one-score game, the stadium goes nuts, and with momentum....who knows?

The Michigan game was not a lopsided whupping. Claeys said this week he opted for a strategy to contain Gardner and make him throw to beat us. Gardner made the throws and Funchess had a big game against our banged up secondary. If Leidner doesn't fumble on the first possession, who knows how the game unfolds. And, if he completes the long pass in the second half, the Gophers are right in the game against a ranked, undefeated team in the Big House, where they haven't had much success.

I think Nelson and Leidner can win in the B1G. I think the talent base is getting better. And, I believe the staff knows football have good schemes.

It's not that far away, in my opinion.

All that being said, if Kill doesn't win and he's shipped out, I'll understand and can accept the justification. If that happens, I wonder if I'll live long enough to see the coaches that follow deliver what this fan base wants.

 

[Killjoy]

I can agree with Kill and this staff should be given more time but people are allowed to have formed an opinion about whether this head coach and staff can turn the program around after 2.5 years into it.

What I don't understand is people being called out and being told you can't have an opinion until after a certain amount of time has passed. It's an opinion and there is no required time period to form one. It's up to Kill and his staff to prove they can turn the program around.

LOL - First, when I read the bold section I thought it said "people are allowed to have an informed opinion". In the past I sometime have wonder if this was the case but upon further review I had to overturn my initial reading.

 

[ImaGopher]

It's not that far away, in my opinion.

Reminds me of what Jim Wacker used to say every week on his television show with Tim McNiff, "We're so close!".

 

[howieramone]

I'll be straight forward: I have been spending a lot less time on Gopherhole these last three weeks because of all the mouth breathing and doom/gloom. My thoughts of the upcoming game are more basic: If the team wins, enjoy it for a week. If the team loses, take a continued and more dedicated vacation from Gopher Hole and look forward to the next game and its corresponding tailgate.

+1

 

[BreakTheGopherCurse]

A big thing about my perception regarding Kill's condition has been that I am not going to evaluate him based on it. I am not going to criticize him for issues related to his condition, I am going to evaluate him based on the on field results. But he also doesn't get a pass on anything because of his condition (with the planning/recruiting/training he has done so far, Kill deserves the credit/blame for what happens tomorrow). I recognize that this staff has taken steps to ensure that they know what to do (sort of reminds me of Leo in the West Wing TV show with Martin Sheen's MS).

OP was right, Iowa was a poorly played and poorly coached game. Michigan was better, but still not close to good. If we look as bad against Northwestern as we did in our first two conference games, I will be upset, but I would be upset if we looked that bad and Kill was on the sidelines. If we win this game, Kill will have me right back in his corner. I'm not saying that I am totally out of his corner right now, I don't think we should be considering firing him or anything like that, I just am pretty disappointed with his performance in the last two games. And yes, as the head coach, the buck stops with Kill, so I have no problem with referring to the game results as his performance, whether or not he is physically present at the game.

Exactly. This is Kills program. In my mind, he gets five full years. If, by mid-season year 5 we still perform like we do right now, then start looking for a new coach and have one hired the day after the season ends. In the meantime, this is Coach Kill's program regardless of his health condition. Even if he misses more games and practices, I'm willing to let him hold the keys to the program until then. Personally, I'm just intrigued enough to want to witness whether Kill is a true "turn-around" artist or not. And, I'm personally okay with him carrying out his duties in any way he wants or is able (of course, I'm speaking just for myself right now and expect lots of disagreement). Again, just speaking for myself here, it's like that old saying: "....I don't care if you work 10 hours or 100 hours a week, I don't care if you're in the office, at home, or on planet Mars, if you produce the results we need, the job is yours. If not, well don't let the door hit you in the ass".

 

[BreakTheGopherCurse]

An informed decision about what? What are the available options? Posters here seem to think that we merely need to spend money on a Big Name Coach and all will be resolved. Big Name Coaches already are paid big money and are big name because they coach at successful football schools where they are appreciated. Folks here can only think of the favorable characteristics of our market. Seems that coaches elsewhere have seen some unfavorable characteristics that we're not admitting as evidenced by the difficulty we've had hiring BNCs over the years. The one we hired scooted quickly. The almost-BNC longed for the post over on the other end of the conference. It's not the weather -- our weather is no worse than it was when we won seven national titles. It's not the stadium -- we've been unsuccessful in three stadiums in thirty years. It's not the coaches -- we've tried lots of them since the 60s without success. No, there's something about our market that top coaches (and top recruits) find disagreeable. We need to find what it is, admit to it, change it if possible, or develop a way to recruit despite it, to be successful. The administration can't make an informed decision without recognizing the reality. Meanwhile, we have a coaching staff that has succeeded elsewhere and has stabilized the leadership of our football program. I wish they could develop UM football into a competitive program. But as Pete Maravich said "You don't get here by just wishing."

I respectfully disagree. I think it's 100% attributable to the Coaches. I believe, up until Kill, we hadn't hired the right man (let me re-state that... I do think Kill can do this if he has enough time). Holtz had us moving in the right direction and I don't think (though I admit I don't really know) it was because he was cheating. (Yes, Luther Darville gave money to players on campus who were hurting financially. But did that have anything to do with why these players came to Minnesota?) Holtz brought Mr. Rickie Foggie and Company here and that made all the difference in the world. Did he bribe those players to come here? Not that I'm aware. In other words, find a person able to identify and land talent, and can hire and manage talented coaches, and we'll have a winning program. Moreover, have an athletic director able to identify the right person. Do I think it's easy? Of course not. But, Wisconsin did it, Northwestern did it twice, several non-B1G teams have also done it over the past 20 years or so. Some, like Wisconsin, have sustained it. Others, like Rutgers perhaps, had it and then somehow lost it. In my opinion, it can be done, and it can be done just about anywhere in the nation. Just my opinion.

 

[localGophah]

killme I concur with your take........as a matter of fact if the gophers do turn things around not this year but soon, that might kill me....like if they were in a big bowl or something...but what a way to go!!!!!!

 

[Indi1006]

At this point I care more about watching a game and game plan that doesn't make me want to poke my eyes out it sucks so much (see Iowa and Michigan and good chunks of th NC games) than I care about actually winning the games. If we take care of the former the latter will follow.

 

[Iceland12]

I HATE this thread. You're not going make any difference. They're going win or lose, Kill may or may not get his health under control and whether you like it or not whatever happens is going to happen. I've read this entire thread and have nothing to add except that I don't want to read it.

There, now it's truly a Gopher Hole thread.

 

[I've been to Duluth]

I'm amazed at the number of posters who have been staying away from Gopherhole who also posted to this thread within a matter of hours after it was posted. Dumb luck, I guess.

 

[Dr.Don]

I HATE this thread. You're not going make any difference. They're going win or lose, Kill may or may not get his health under control and whether you like it or not whatever happens is going to happen. I've read this entire thread and have nothing to add except that I don't want to read it.

There, now it's truly a Gopher Hole thread.

Iceland12, I respectfully disagree with you about the red. It is NOT truly a Gopher Hole thread because the thread does not contain a dissertation from Wren.