Pro Day Minnesota

[grunkiejr]

Regarding Sherels the guy has potential but always appeared to be limited by his size. His junior year was his first year at corner in college (I don't know if he played there in HS) and as we all know, he played very well. Roof's scheme allowed him to simply man up on receivers and use his athletic ability to blanket receivers and he did it well. This past year he had to play zone about 70% of the time. He hadn't played much zone either in life or since high school, and had to adjust to a new scheme. That combined with an ankle injury that slowed his reaction time and a shoulder injury that made a small guy even less physical, hurt his performance. I'm not sure if he'll ever be able to play in the NFL due to his size, but his performance has always been good IMO

He played CB in HS. He walked on at Minnesota in part because his brother told him he was good enough to play CB here. We played him at WR early in his career because we were so thin at WR. When we finally recruited enough depth he got moved back to his natural position.

 

[diefirma]

Marcus was GREAT during his Jr year

Marcus DID have a super junior year. I'm not sure what you guys were watching, but he didn't give up a single TD until the bowl game his junior year. He was great. He forced turnovers, etc. He injured his shoulder late and that hampered him.

This past year it was all about his ankle. He missed several games and never did get back to full strength.

+1 Marcus was spectacular at times during his junior year. A half a dozen times or so he TOOK THE BALL AWAY FROM THE RECEIVER AFTER THE RECEIVER HAD MADE THE CATCH !!! I have played and watched football for 50 years and don't recall another corner doing that.

Will he be a good pro player - I don't know - he is VERY short but during his junior year he was one of the best corners in the country.

 

[bankonit]

+1 Marcus was spectacular at times during his junior year. A half a dozen times or so he TOOK THE BALL AWAY FROM THE RECEIVER AFTER THE RECEIVER HAD MADE THE CATCH !!! I have played and watched football for 50 years and don't recall another corner doing that.

Will he be a good pro player - I don't know - he is VERY short but during his junior year he was one of the best corners in the country.

Sherels and Simmons were both very special players their junior years, maybe 2 of the best we have had playing together at the same time in a very long time. I think Sherels did well for himself going from a walk on to where he is now. I am sure the injuries along with playing more zone hurt Sherels performance, I think zone coverage hurt Simmons performance as well, they were both better playing aggressive.

 

[dpodoll68]

How did you determine that he was not an outstanding football player? Name 5 better corners in the Big Ten and tell why.

Let's not get into all that. The point is not to compare him to other Big Ten CBs. The point is to look at those amazing numbers and say, "Where was this guy during his Gopher career?" You can point to being a walk-on, switching positions, injuries, and that probably explains it.

All I'm saying is that the production, for whatever reason, doesn't match up with those combine numbers. If they did, he'd have been, at minimum, 1st- or 2nd-team All Big Ten, tons of tackles, interceptions, etc.

during his junior year he was one of the best corners in the country

C'mon now. I'm as big of a Gopher fan as there is, so I'm on your side, but why even say ridiculous things like this?

 

[dpodoll68]

yeah its a shame he doesnt utilize that vertical leaping ability in games, oh wait a minute, http://www.gophersports.com/PhotoAlbum.dbml?SPSID=38609&SPID=3280&DB_OEM_ID=8400&PALBID=359149 yes, youre still an idiot, every one of your posts ive ever read has proven it

You'll have to forgive me if I don't take as sage wisdom the sardonic ramblings of a half-wit who doesn't know where the shift key is, has yet to meet an apostrophe he'd like to utilize, and has a grand total of 4 posts on the football board (all of them in this thread).

 

[Sportsfan24]

Let's not get into all that. The point is not to compare him to other Big Ten CBs. The point is to look at those amazing numbers and say, "Where was this guy during his Gopher career?" You can point to being a walk-on, switching positions, injuries, and that probably explains it.

All I'm saying is that the production, for whatever reason, doesn't match up with those combine numbers. If they did, he'd have been, at minimum, 1st- or 2nd-team All Big Ten, tons of tackles, interceptions, etc.


I can respect what you're saying.

I wouldn't get too enamoured with awards. I know of at least two guys (not on our team) who received them that would not have been in the Gopher rotation (they're not very good).

Marcus WAS amongst BigTen leaders in passes defensed and tackles made by cb's.

Overall I can't argue with you because you make a valid point.

 

[KD6-3.7]

when talking about corners and numbers you have to remember that many times it is the quiet corners that are the best because opposing offensive coordinators know which corner is the better corner and do not throw in his direction.

the best corners are always the quietest ones. consider Nnamdi Asomugha of the raiders (i am not comparing sherels to asomugha in talent), probably the best CB in the league and in 16 starts last season he had 34 tackles one INT and 4 passes defended--and that was your starting corner in the 2010 pro bowl.

sherels was the best lock down corner, and he was 'invisible' because the other team knew that.

 

[monk10]

Injuries and add a lack of a pass rush his senior year. I thought he was also our special teams guy until Stoud showed up. That should add some value to a team if he can catch and use that speed to affect field position.

 

[KoolAid]

sherels was the best lock down corner, and he was 'invisible' because the other team knew that.

Let's not go crazy here folks.

 

[ClaytonBigsby5]

dpodoll, i've read plenty of posts on here and i've fed up with your posts, i'm sorry i dont worry about grammar, but i'm more sorry that its the only argument you have against me, and i will try to take all of the dumb stuff you try to claim on here with a grain of salt, i'm also glad you are using your word of the day calendar effectively! Have fun with your world of warcraft games

 

[ClaytonBigsby5]

also, if you knew football you'd realize that cornerbacks who have a lot of tackles generally have a lot of passes completed against them and cornerbacks who are thrown at more generally have worse coverage, coaches have these things called game plans, within these gameplans they choose to pick on weaker matchups, watch some film and see for yourself buddy, looking forward to seeing if you can incorporate tomorrow's word of the day into your argument

 

[dpodoll68]

also, if you knew football you'd realize that cornerbacks who have a lot of tackles generally have a lot of passes completed against them and cornerbacks who are thrown at more generally have worse coverage, coaches have these things called game plans, within these gameplans they choose to pick on weaker matchups, watch some film and see for yourself buddy, looking forward to seeing if you can incorporate tomorrow's word of the day into your argument

You're right. Marcus Sherels is a top-5 CB prospect in the NFL draft, as his Pro Day numbers would indicate. He was among the nation's premier shutdown corners, and teams very rarely, if ever, threw at him. It was common knowledge among Big Ten offensive staffs that he was an elite Big Ten CB, which is why, even though his stats weren't very impressive, they lauded praise and awards upon him many times over.

The thing you're not intelligent enough to realize is that, like I've said, I'm not slamming Marcus Sherels. All I'm saying is that his play on the field was incongruous with his Pro Day numbers. If you think his quality of play was indicative of 4.3 speed, a 10' broad jump, and a 40" vertical, you are even more of a simpleton than I thought.

Also:

A) I have never owned a word-of-the day calendar or any similar apparatus in my life. I have this thing rattling around in my brain that's called a vocabulary. You should try acquiring one sometime.

B) I have never played WOW in my life. I've heard it's a fun game, but I generally stick to sports games when I do play. At any rate, I'm not sure what that has to do with the price of rice in China. The irony, of course, is that someone who accuses me of pointing out poor grammar (which is directly complicit in the quality of one's argument) throws out lame, hackneyed insults that have absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand. I'd much rather be insulted for my intelligence than my idiocy. You truly are a master(de)bater.

 

[ClaytonBigsby5]

well i'm not arguing anymore with you, it is just ridiculous, corners rarely look good at all without a pass rush, somehow he still looked solid even with injury and he really is a shut down corner, who is going to step in next year and play corner? collado is a great blitzing/tackling corner, and carter has a long way to go, we literally have no one else who plays corner unless a juco steps in and plays like a beast, which is highly unlikely

 

[50PoundHead]

Sherels is someone who may find a place on a practice squad and get a chance to develop. I think the thing that works against him being on a 53-man roster right out of the chute is that I don't know if he has the tackling ability to play on special teams and if you are going to be an extra DB in the NFL, you have to be able to play on special teams. Maybe (just maybe), he can get a shot as a punt return guy, so it's not like he couldn't contribute somewhere on special teams, but the guy cannot tackle reliably.

But these numbers are going to get him a look and if he can show something in a training camp, he could stick on a practice squad and from there, let's just say there are worse DBs in the NFL.

 

[Unregistered User]

The irony, of course, is that someone who accuses me of pointing out poor grammar (which is directly complicit in the quality of one's argument) throws out lame, hackneyed insults that have absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand.

That is not ironic.

 

[ClaytonBigsby5]

yeah thats true, what is ironic however is someone makes fun of someone's intelligence, but apparently isnt smart enough to know what irony is

 

[dpodoll68]

That is not ironic.

irony - "incongruity between the actual result of a sequence of events and the normal or expected result"

He made the point of saying I was going off-topic by nitpicking his grammar, while he in fact was the one who threw out lame insults about "words of the day" and "World of Warcraft".

The "normal or expected result" is that he would be deservedly chastised for going off-topic, when in fact the "actual result" is that he castigated me for bringing things up that are in fact directly pertinent to the discussion.

Now, pray tell, good sir...explain to me how that is not ironic.

I'll hang up and listen.

 

[dpodoll68]

well i'm not arguing anymore with you, it is just ridiculous, corners rarely look good at all without a pass rush, somehow he still looked solid even with injury and he really is a shut down corner, who is going to step in next year and play corner? collado is a great blitzing/tackling corner, and carter has a long way to go, we literally have no one else who plays corner unless a juco steps in and plays like a beast, which is highly unlikely

You talk as though it's a proven fact that coaches around the league looked at him as some type of world-beating corner who shut down his half of the field. You bring in the argument, "Well, his numbers weren't that great because everyone knows he's a shutdown corner who coaches schemed to never throw toward." So, if we can't look at statistics, let's look at awards. When coaches went to fill out their ballots, if Sherels were so great, why wouldn't he be high on their minds and get at least a second-team award, especially during his junior year when he was "one of the best CBs in the country"? You can say politics go into the selection process, but if a player is that great, he will win awards.

And again, I'm not "arguing" with you. I'm TELLING you that Marcus Sherels did not play up to the level of his raw athletic numbers. Period. This point cannot be argued against. It is incontrovertible truth.

And, note how I've never once said that he was bad, or anything even approaching it. Rather, he was a good, dependable Big Ten starter. Nothing more, nothing less.

You act as though our secondary will never be the same because the great and infallible Marcus Sherels has left. When, in fact, Carter is already better than Sherels ever was, and still has plenty of room to grow and improve. He will, barring injury, be picked in the top 3 rounds of the NFL draft in 2011 or 2012. (Feel free to copy and paste this and bring it up a year or two from now. Presuming that you come around to make your annual half-dozen posts on the football board.)

 

[ClaytonBigsby5]

whoa whoa michael carter is good, but better than sherels already? lets be serious, if he was he would have been playing and starting when he was actually 3rd or even 4th in line behind collado and even traye at times, he has potential to be great however, im not worried about that, im worried about not having a 3rd cb

 

[STPGopher]

You talk as though it's a proven fact that coaches around the league looked at him as some type of world-beating corner who shut down his half of the field. You bring in the argument, "Well, his numbers weren't that great because everyone knows he's a shutdown corner who coaches schemed to never throw toward." So, if we can't look at statistics, let's look at awards. When coaches went to fill out their ballots, if Sherels were so great, why wouldn't he be high on their minds and get at least a second-team award, especially during his junior year when he was "one of the best CBs in the country"? You can say politics go into the selection process, but if a player is that great, he will win awards.

And again, I'm not "arguing" with you. I'm TELLING you that Marcus Sherels did not play up to the level of his raw athletic numbers. Period. This point cannot be argued against. It is incontrovertible truth.
And, note how I've never once said that he was bad, or anything even approaching it. Rather, he was a good, dependable Big Ten starter. Nothing more, nothing less.

You act as though our secondary will never be the same because the great and infallible Marcus Sherels has left. When, in fact, Carter is already better than Sherels ever was, and still has plenty of room to grow and improve. He will, barring injury, be picked in the top 3 rounds of the NFL draft in 2011 or 2012. (Feel free to copy and paste this and bring it up a year or two from now. Presuming that you come around to make your annual half-dozen posts on the football board.)

How can something so subjective be "incontrovertible" truth?

Regarding awards, He wasn't the first Gopher to be looked over. A couple of the best overlooks would be Mike Lehan(Cleveland Browns) IIRC nobody really talked about him. The next would be Barber and Maroney. When great backfield tandems were discussed Barber and Maroney were hardly ever discussed. All we heard about were White and Bush or Williams and Brown. Heck Dayne and Matt Unertl were discussed more often. So what's my point? Much of this has to do with the team, it's defensive ranking and many other factors that were not in Sherels control.

I don't know how Sherels will pan out in the NFL. I do think those pro day results are real and, like many others have mentioned here, I think his lack of size would be the concern. Not his individual talent.

Thanks for the proday results. This news is great. Not only for the players mentioned, but also the strength and conditioning program. Hopefully this will be more the norm.

 

[The Representative]

Barret Moen

Despite all the recent discussions around Marcus S., an inside source suggested Barret Moen was the one who really came to impress. In addition to 34 bench presses, he ran a 4.69 40 at 280lbs. THIS IS AWESOME. Perhaps there hasn't been as much discussion around Barret as he may be a better athlete than a football player?

 

[EG#9]

Despite all the recent discussions around Marcus S., an inside source suggested Barret Moen was the one who really came to impress. In addition to 34 bench presses, he ran a 4.69 40 at 280lbs. THIS IS AWESOME. Perhaps there hasn't been as much discussion around Barret as he may be a better athlete than a football player?

I read in the Strib that Moen and Eric Small both ran under 4.8, but that seems impossible. If Moen really ran that type of time and had that type of strength, I can't believe he didn't have more impact on the field. He probably made the fewest plays out of the 4 starting Dlineman.