premptive Leidner thread

Mitch has improved this year.

He is serviceable so long as he doesn't turn the ball over.

He has very little margin for error.

The thing about football is that very few teams are a lot better than their quarterbacks.
 

Chicken or egg? The O Line was manhandled. The receivers were seldom open. The QB played poorly. All true but we played an elite level team with superb athletes at every position and lost by 7. Am I satisfied with the outcome? No! Never the less this team showed me a lot. After 10 games we control our destiny! Who'd a thunk that after TCU? Who'd a dreamt that the night the Kill hire was announced?

Go Gophers...Beat Nebraska!
 

My main issue with Leidner is that he still takes far too many sacks which are completely unnecessary if he would only and simply just throw away the ball as opposed to taking the sack. That's a mental thing that quite a few quarterbacks struggle with from time to time, but Mitch is still doing so consistently, and we are a chain to chain offense which quite often lacks the ability to make up the yardage lost due to sacks being taken. And the majority of these sacks, it's not like he's trying to extend the play or anything, he just simply seems to mentally freeze up and hold the ball when under duress, either that or backpedal in desperation which ultimately ends up costing him even more yardage. It's got to become instinctual for a quarterback to get rid of the ball when facing a sack and the play is not there. Throw it at the feet of a receiver or a back, throw it out of bounds, just get rid of it rather than taking the loss of yards. Throw it away, and reset for the next down.

Some quarterbacks learn that with experience, while some never do, and some with exceptional talent even take that unfortunate trait all the way to the NFL (David Carr, Jake Plummer and Jon Kitna spring immediately to mind amongst many others, and that 'hold-the ball-itis' tendency ultimately ended up not only hurting his teams but dramatically shortening David Carr's career- 267 sacks taken in 94 NFL games, damn.). It's a mentality as well as a thought process, so you never know how that's going to work out for a young quarterback, if that's ever going to click and the light bulb come on for them. You've got to do it though. You cannot take avoidable sacks like that when the opportunity is there to simply throw the ball away. Some sacks are unavoidable, as when the protection immediately and catastrophically fails or there's a blindside pass-rusher coming, but it's the avoidable ones (when you're facing the rush, when you're seeing it coming, and you've got the time and opportunity to throw the ball away), those are the sacks taken which have to be eliminated. That's an error of cognition though rather than one of mechanics, so it is possible to learn to do it until that becomes instinctive in nature.

So that's my main frustration with Leidner right now, but hopefully he can get past that and just learn to do it.
 

I disagree with those who think we can't win with ML7. He has improved over the course of this year, by my observation. For those who like flashy stats, you're following the wrong team. Go away. I still believe, maybe more than I did on Friday, that the Gophers will win the B1G West.
 

Chicken or egg? The O Line was manhandled. The receivers were seldom open. The QB played poorly. All true but we played an elite level team with superb athletes at every position and lost by 7. Am I satisfied with the outcome? No! Never the less this team showed me a lot. After 10 games we control our destiny! Who'd a thunk that after TCU? Who'd a dreamt that the night the Kill hire was announced?

Go Gophers...Beat Nebraska!

Hey, I'm with you. Pound Nebraska.
 


I guess context isn't important. Go away mkAz. By your standards I'm guessing WAst. is the best. Go away - you have zero clue.

Christ, Leidner and Kill both admitted in their post game that Leidner was bad yesterday and that he has to play better for this team to reach their potential. Pull your head out.
 

I disagree with those who think we can't win with ML7. He has improved over the course of this year, by my observation. For those who like flashy stats, you're following the wrong team. Go away. I still believe, maybe more than I did on Friday, that the Gophers will win the B1G West.

It's not about flashy stats, but you do have to excel in one the stats that was posted.

Completion percentage.
 

I disagree with those who think we can't win with ML7. He has improved over the course of this year, by my observation. For those who like flashy stats, you're following the wrong team. Go away. I still believe, maybe more than I did on Friday, that the Gophers will win the B1G West.

How has he improved? His completion%, YPA, Interception rate, QBR are all lower than they were last season... And like other posters have noted, he takes unneeded sacks and seems unable to look beyond 1 option on a route

By the way, I also fully believe they can win the next 2 games. They can't/ wont unless Leidner is significantly better than he was today.
 

How has he improved? His completion%, YPA, Interception rate, QBR are all lower than they were last season... And like other posters have noted, he takes unneeded sacks and seems unable to look beyond 1 option on a route

By the way, I also fully believe they can win the next 2 games. They can't/ wont unless Leidner is significantly better than he was today.
http://espn.go.com/college-football/player/_/id/530731/mitch-leidner
I would say besides yesterdays game he has improved throughout the year. Also are you really going to compare last years numbers with this years? He didn't take near the amount of snaps last year as he did this year.
 




I disagree with those who think we can't win with ML7. He has improved over the course of this year, by my observation. For those who like flashy stats, you're following the wrong team. Go away. I still believe, maybe more than I did on Friday, that the Gophers will win the B1G West.

You don't have to like flashy stats to realize 7-19 85 yards 2 INT is an awful game by any standards.
 

Mitch is actually pretty good at one thing: slow developing plays where he has lots of time to throw deep.

Most of Mitch's problems flow from the fact that he's slow. His decision-making is slow, his arm is slow, his release is slow. This is most glaringly apparent on quick throws he needs to make to the boundary. He just can't quite get them there.

One thing Limegrover has done is roll Mitch out on deeper throws. Mitch is clearly more comfortable moving his feet. He takes sacks when forced to stay in the pocket.
 

I put it at 90% or higher the Mitch starts the majority if not all games over the next two seasons. It really comes down to Kill and staff hitting a HR in QB recruiting in the next two cycles. Parra, Croft, and. Roden-McKinzy will compete to be that person. Having WR's that are tall, athletic, and played the position in HS will help.
 



Mitch is actually pretty good at one thing: slow developing plays where he has lots of time to throw deep.

Most of Mitch's problems flow from the fact that he's slow. His decision-making is slow, his arm is slow, his release is slow. This is most glaringly apparent on quick throws he needs to make to the boundary. He just can't quite get them there.

One thing Limegrover has done is roll Mitch out on deeper throws. Mitch is clearly more comfortable moving his feet. He takes sacks when forced to stay in the pocket.

I agree. ML7 does seem to thrive when the speed of the game is slow. Yesterday's pace was too fast for him at this stage of his development.

What gets to me is when he telegraphs where he is throwing.

I still think he is the best option we have now. He & the Oline blocking/protection will get better year after year. We need for him to continue to allow time for the other QBs behind him to mature and develop or until such a time they can surpass him.

He needs to work on good quick decision making in fast paced games.

We couldn't contain that beast Bosa which was a torn in the Gophers back all day.

Yesterday was a team loss. I thought given the talent level they played against, to lose 31-24 and not get blown away says something about this team.

The Gophers are no longer patsies, but a team I'd think most other B1G teams must dread to play away. Think about it. When was the last time the Gophers won six home games in a row?

My hope is that we will see the Gophers win a B1G Title in the next four years.

They need to get lucky and get a commitment from a blue chip QB.
 

Stat line for allegedly the Big Tens best QB, Christian Hackenberg vs Temple yesterday:


11/15/14 Temple Grass W 30-13 26 12 46.2 112 4.3 0 2 66.96

Any theories on why a 5 star recruit is struggling so badly this year? I believe his season rating is worse than Leidner's at this point.

Give Mitch a break. The offensive line failed him yesterday and he was pressing with an outmatched WR corp. Don't write him off just yet.
 

I get what you are saying and I'm not the biggest ML7 fan, but he played the best he could today and gave us some opportunities to win. A few plays he hardly got turned around to throw on Play Action and was about to get popped in the mouth. Tough to make confident throws when that happens.

Nothing wrong will Mitch's. We are not and don't want to be passing offense. He will get better.
 

This coaching staff has done a great job building the roster from top to bottom, I'm satisfied with the teams overall performance. They will not take the next step until they can bring in a real Quarterback 7-19 85 yards 2 interceptions

There is more that goes into a good passing attack than just the QB. I don't think we have even one wide receiver who would start for any other Big 10 team. Whether the problem is talent or play calling our wide receivers seem to get less separation than our opponent's receivers. Leidner will be starting for the Gophers for the next two seasons unless he gets hurt. It is Kill's job to get Leidner Big 10 quality receivers and figure out a way to win with him.
 

There is more that goes into a good passing attack than just the QB. I don't think we have even one wide receiver who would start for any other Big 10 team.

This is true, even with Jones and Wolitarsky on the field and neither of them played yesterday. Amazing how much better Leidner and PN looked over the past two years when Barker/Engel were able to get open. The Gophers don't have a receiver close to their level. Almost every bad play Leidner had yesterday was because he either had Bosa in his face, or no one was even close to being open.

I don't think Leidner will ever be a great QB, but get him some real WRs and I believe he will be good enough to win more games. Hopefully Holland and Gentry can be part of this solution next year.
 

Anyone ever consider that the other team might have something to do with Leidners performance? And the two top wide receivers out?

Anyone out there ever lose a sale to a competitor just cause they had more to offer?

I say get a life. The whole team had issues yesterday because the gophers weren't playing the sisters of the poor....
 

We are not and don't want to be passing offense.
That's kind of non-nonsensical. I'm all for the Gophers being a power running team, but wouldn't a better, more efficient passing game help the running game too?
 


Mitch is actually pretty good at one thing: slow developing plays where he has lots of time to throw deep.

Most of Mitch's problems flow from the fact that he's slow. His decision-making is slow, his arm is slow, his release is slow. This is most glaringly apparent on quick throws he needs to make to the boundary. He just can't quite get them there.

One thing Limegrover has done is roll Mitch out on deeper throws. Mitch is clearly more comfortable moving his feet. He takes sacks when forced to stay in the pocket.

My impression as well. And at this level, a nanosecond is huge.

I have always thought that he throws a nicer ball than Nelson's (tighter spiral), but Nelson was quicker in the other facets of the position.
 

That's kind of non-nonsensical. I'm all for the Gophers being a power running team, but wouldn't a better, more efficient passing game help the running game too?

Yes, and one of Kills talking points lately has been just this. The apologists don't like to hear it though. Jones being out at the last minute certainly didn't help anything.
 

How has he improved? His completion%, YPA, Interception rate, QBR are all lower than they were last season... And like other posters have noted, he takes unneeded sacks and seems unable to look beyond 1 option on a route

By the way, I also fully believe they can win the next 2 games. They can't/ wont unless Leidner is significantly better than he was today.
Some of you -- and I'm sure you're smart enough to know who you are -- would be better suited to commenting about a one-on-one sport. It seems the detail of 11-on-11 is a bit overwhelming. Many in the playoff discussion have mentioned the "eye test" as a factor in determining which teams are chosen. I take that to mean that scores, statistical metrics, and other such tangible tools don't tell the whole story.

You don't have to like flashy stats to realize 7-19 85 yards 2 INT is an awful game by any standards.
Would 1-for-7 for 7 yards, no TDs and 1 interception be good enough for you? That was Streveler's line in the WIN over SJSU. You seem to want flashy stats. I'm more about wins. I think ML7 can win, in fact he is leading us to accomplish things we haven't done in a very long time.
 


Blame the qb, blame the qb

Let's not bring rationale into our heated argument. ;) It is much easier to blame a qb who is barely rated in a head to head comparison to a 5* qb playing with 5 times as many future NFL players. QB's get too much credit when they win many times and too much credit for sure with each loss. I saw no wr's open, even Maxx was usually covered like a blanket and just made catches anyway.


Chicken or egg? The O Line was manhandled. The receivers were seldom open. The QB played poorly. All true but we played an elite level team with superb athletes at every position and lost by 7. Am I satisfied with the outcome? No! Never the less this team showed me a lot. After 10 games we control our destiny! Who'd a thunk that after TCU? Who'd a dreamt that the night the Kill hire was announced?

Go Gophers...Beat Nebraska!
 

We do though need a passing game.

+1

Wanting to play a power running game is a good reason for not racking up a lot of completions or yards, not for only completing 37% of our passes. This was not all on Mitch, but he didn't play well. I'm sure he knows it, he's a tough kid and a competitor, and I bet he is reflecting on how he can play better right now, not sitting somewhere lamenting his line or his receivers. He seems to bounce back well after poor performances, so hopefully we seem him come out strong against Nebraska.
 

Leidner didn't have a good game, but by no means is this game on him. I think we have to look at the defense and the multiple big plays that they gave up. We had a bunch of times when we had them 3rd down and 7 or so and we just allowed them to score or pick up a big game. Wilson had a lot to do with that he had some really bad reads. The problem with our passing game is that it's very basic, which it should be. It's easy for corners to jump our routes when all we do is run comebacks and quick slants. If were going to continue to run those routes we have to mix in some double moves to at least keep the secondary honest.
 

He is only a sophomore... I think he should have every opportunity, going forward, to progress as a QB. That being said, I really hope kill doesn't "anoint" Leidner the starter next year. It should be an open competition. I suspect we may have a few legitimate horses in next years QB race.
 

He is only a sophomore... I think he should have every opportunity, going forward, to progress as a QB. That being said, I really hope kill doesn't "anoint" Leidner the starter next year. It should be an open competition. I suspect we may have a few legitimate horses in next years QB race.

I don't think Kill anoints anyone on his team. Leidner will get every opportunity to win the job but so will Croft and Perra. The best player in August will start.
 




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