Practice Observations

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Pompous Elitist said:
Not surprising the QBs look rough 4 days into a new system. Did Mitch look perfect in camp? I doubt it.

I think we all have our favorite horses in this race based on different factors...J.G. Has stated several times in the past he's watched Croft in practice and he didn't throw well. However, we all saw the spring game where he had a stronger arm than Rhoda and was at least equivalent in accuracy.

it's going to be really interesting to see what evolves over camp and the first third of the season. Based on repeated statements I fear Fleck looks at this as a possible throwaway year while he installs his culture. Could he go with the true freshman? Stay tuned.

Fleck hasn't completely ruled out the possibility of an ongoing QB battle into the preseason...
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I don't really care who starts at QB as long as they are the best option. I think you have blind optimism for Croft for no real reason and try to dismiss any evidence that he's not a top flight QB...
 

John Galt said:
It was announced earlier but Umlor is now with the DE's. Estes got a few snaps at QB as expected, but I didn't see nearly enough to form an impression. Bursch is now playing guard. Coughlin is basically a defensive end as he will be rushing the passer from the left side. I think Winfield will be our nickel corner this year as he is one of the better cover guys on the team. Huff and McGhee appear to be the safeties when we're in a nickel package. Weyler and Dovich were both at center, which is a new position for each of them.
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Thanks JG! So of the 3 TE commits from last year's recruiting class, Bursch is now a G and Umlor is now a DE. I assume that leaves Paulson at TE, which makes sense.
 

John Galt said:
I don't really care who starts at QB as long as they are the best option. I think you have blind optimism for Croft for no real reason and try to dismiss any evidence that he's not a top flight QB...
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I said I'd be surprised if he isn't the starter based on statements of a 2 horse race, and observations but I've also said it is an open battle. I've consistently said it could be anyone. To turn it around, why are you locked in on Rhoda? To me his physical skills seem more limited and other observers have said he hasn't made good decisions in practice.

As I said before we'll find out a lot more over the next month or two, possibly in the next 10 days if Fleck decides to name a definitive starter. He wants a leader not just the most gifted player so it's anyone's guess what will happen.
 

John Galt said:
I don't really care who starts at QB as long as they are the best option. I think you have blind optimism for Croft for no real reason and try to dismiss any evidence that he's not a top flight QB...
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I think there is a ton of evidence that non of the QB candidates are "top flight QB's".
 

John Galt said:
Players can improve from one season to the next, but it absolutely means something that Croft and Rhoda couldn't beat out Leidner last year. At a minimum, it means they aren't unbelievably good...

And the QB play will absolutely matter when we play Oregon St on the road. It will go a long ways to deciding whether we win or lose. The NC games in college football count, they aren't pre-season NFL games.
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John - my point was that Croft and Rhoda couldn't beat out Leidner in a different system with a different coaching staff. This year, they are playing in a new system and being evaluated by a new coaching staff, who may evaluate QB's differently and have different priorities as opposed to the former staff.

And I agree that QB play will matter in the non-conf games. Just pointing out that this offense is going to be a work in progress. It's entirely possible - based on what Fleck said on the radio the other day - that they might not even have the entire offense installed by the first non-conf game - and it's also entirely possible that none of the QB's will have mastered the entire offense.

So - QB play in week #1 will likely be very different than in week #6 or week #12. Now, if nobody improves from week #1 to week #12, that is an entirely different issue.
 


John Galt said:
Players can improve from one season to the next, but it absolutely means something that Croft and Rhoda couldn't beat out Leidner last year. At a minimum, it means they aren't unbelievably good...

And the QB play will absolutely matter when we play Oregon St on the road. It will go a long ways to deciding whether we win or lose. The NC games in college football count, they aren't pre-season NFL games.
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Yes players can improve from one year to the next. Perhaps a light bulb went off as to how to pass better or whatever. Perhaps they couldn't beat out Leidner last year but perhaps they could have (and hopefully would) beaten him out this year even under the same coaching staff. Thank goodness players don't listen to the posters as to what they are not capable of doing but rather working hard to improve themselves. Strange how people put limits on themselves and others.
 


Pompous Elitist said:
I said I'd be surprised if he isn't the starter based on statements of a 2 horse race, and observations but I've also said it is an open battle. I've consistently said it could be anyone. To turn it around, why are you locked in on Rhoda? To me his physical skills seem more limited and other observers have said he hasn't made good decisions in practice.

As I said before we'll find out a lot more over the next month or two, possibly in the next 10 days if Fleck decides to name a definitive starter. He wants a leader not just the most gifted player so it's anyone's guess what will happen.
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You've been married to Croft for the past several years, and then have the gall to suggest my observations are "biased" when I give my opinion from practice that Rhoda got more reps with the 1s and was more consistent? Take the blinders off my friend...
 

John Galt said:
Try convincing PE that Croft isn't elite...
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Thanks but no thanks. Trying to convince opinionated posters on this board of something different than their own opinion is an exercise in futility. Good luck though...
 



#2Gopher said:
Yes players can improve from one year to the next. Perhaps a light bulb went off as to how to pass better or whatever. Perhaps they couldn't beat out Leidner last year but perhaps they could have (and hopefully would) beaten him out this year even under the same coaching staff. Thank goodness players don't listen to the posters as to what they are not capable of doing but rather working hard to improve themselves. Strange how people put limits on themselves and others.
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I just watched all 5 QBs last night. Sorry that you don't like my take.

Listen to the interview posted in this thread with PJ after practice and his response to the QB play. He doesn't sound thrilled either...
 

John Galt said:
I just watched all 5 QBs last night. Sorry that you don't like my take.

Listen to the interview posted in this thread with PJ after practice and his response to the QB play. He doesn't sound thrilled either...
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He had to think really hard of something good to say about either of them.

Bold prediction: Armstrong starts next year.
 


short ornery norwegian said:
Re: the QB play. Fleck keeps talking about "mastery" of the system. He has said one of his big concerns is how long it will take for the QB's to really master the new system. So, the fact that they don't look polished after a couple of practices should not surprise anyone. this is going to be a work in progress. Fleck was on with Mackey and Judd the other day, and was talking about the time it will take to have the entire offense installed. That is why the non-conference games take on new importance - the non-conf games are going to be the first on-field dry run with the new offense. I suspect we will see different plays and wrinkles being added as the season progresses.

again, if we're going to be concerned about QB play, it would be when the B1G season starts.

also - food for thought - if Fleck & Co were coaching last year, who is to say whether Leidner would have been the QB? Different system - different requirements. So, the idea that "Croft and Rhoda couldn't beat out Leidner last year" means almost nothing when evaluating the QB play this season. It is truly an apples to oranges comparison.
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He's also said it is a simple offense that is designed to expose the defense and create easy reads for the QB to get the ball to the playmakers. I'm not worried.

Agree that the offenses are enough different that Fleck's is much more suited for Croft and Rhoda than is would have been for Mitch.
 



Maverick said:
I think there is a ton of evidence that non of the QB candidates are "top flight QB's".
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...and they do not need to be. Managers who can distribute the ball well, moderately decrease the T/Os, and create a slight passing threat.
 

Johnnyboy18 said:
He had to think really hard of something good to say about either of them.

Bold prediction: Armstrong starts next year.
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I can't say that I disagree with you.

If JG is correct (and I trust his judgement), if there isn't much a delta between Armstron and Rhoda at this point. . .might as well go with the youth.
 

PMWinSTP said:
...and they do not need to be. Managers who can distribute the ball well, moderately decrease the T/Os, and create a slight passing threat.
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THIS.

Just this, would be a drastic step up in the QB play from last year.
 

Fleck made the point that a Gopher QB hadn't been drafted in the NFL since 1971. We're working with the hand we've been dealt. The fact that we couldn't develop a QB over the past 5 years is another justified failure of Kill/Claeys.
 

GopherHusky said:
Fleck made the point that a Gopher QB hadn't been drafted in the NFL since 1971. We're working with the hand we've been dealt. The fact that we couldn't develop a QB over the past 5 years is another justified failure of Kill/Claeys.
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Yeah. I have a little doubt that Fleck will do well with our QBs and my low expectations/hopes from that position are much more an indictment on the previous regime than him.
 

One thing we can all agree on...QB gazing will be in full force. Let's wait and see what happens. Drawing definitive conclusions from limited snippets of passing drills and spring games is probably going to be misleading.

As far as coach speak goes he's going to set high expectations and I wouldn't expect anyone to meet that 4 days in. If neither progresses then we may see the freshman and build for the future.

We don't need a superstar, although it would be nice.
 

Has Devers gained weight so he can play every down as a DE or is he just going to be a specialist pass rusher?
 

PMWinSTP said:
He's also said it is a simple offense that is designed to expose the defense and create easy reads for the QB to get the ball to the playmakers. I'm not worried.

Agree that the offenses are enough different that Fleck's is much more suited for Croft and Rhoda than is would have been for Mitch.
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This makes me cringe. I envision read option with a lot of UTM hand offs ala Limegrover. 3 yards and a cloud of dust.
 

Even if someone hasn't created separation yet, I still expect improved QB play this year. Playcalling and schematics alone will increase the offense's effectiveness. How much is what the QBs will determine on the field.
 

One thing that stood out, in the spring game, was the improved discipline and play of the O Line. This alone will improve QB performance no matter who the QB is. Ski-U-Mah &RTB!
 

Whytetale said:
One thing that stood out, in the spring game, was the improved discipline and play of the O Line. This alone will improve QB performance no matter who the QB is. Ski-U-Mah &RTB!
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This is true.

When you can't throw. . . 3rd and 3 seems doable while 3rd and 8 seems nearly impossible.
 

MennoSota said:
This makes me cringe. I envision read option with a lot of UTM hand offs ala Limegrover. 3 yards and a cloud of dust.
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That's not what Fleck means by simple. He uses pre-snap motion and sets to disguise the offensive play and expose the defense to create the easy read for the QB to complete a high % play. Posted this link many times, but it is a great quick explanation and analysis.

https://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2016/11/19/13577022/pj-fleck-coach-western-michigan-wmu
 

OJ Smith is a big dude. Not necessarily fit looking, but big. Think Pat Williams.
 

beatles said:
We had terrible play from our qb last year and won 9 games. It's tough to imagine being worse at that position, at least for me anyway. Decent qb play would have beaten Iowa at home easily. Thank God he didn't have a chance to screw up the game at Maryland and we don't even need to mention his performance in Madison.
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If he was so horrible, why was he starting?

(I guess some could say this would be reason enough for why it was time to move on from Kill / Claeys).
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
I can't say that I disagree with you.

If JG is correct (and I trust his judgement), if there isn't much a delta between Armstron and Rhoda at this point. . .might as well go with the youth.
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Rhoda will be gone next year. It's tough for a true frosh to breakthrough at qb in the big ten. I like Armstrong as a prospect but I doubt he will be ready next year. Morgan could be with a redshirt year. I hope Croft can win the job, I think he has more talent but talent isn't everything. Maybe this isn't fair but after that Maryland game I was hoping that would be the last of Rhoda.
 

bemidjigopher said:
Maybe this isn't fair but after that Maryland game I was hoping that would be the last of Rhoda.
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Unfortunately you could say the same thing about the 2015 Northwestern game for Croft.

Frankly I don't think either is going to be great but if they can limit mistakes they can be good.
 


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