PP: Gophers basketball coach Richard Pitino says rebuilt team can ‘compete at a high level’

[scools12]

Really not much else Pitino can say. He’s out of options and he knows it. The team has to compete at a high level this year or else. If it doesn’t he’s done here and knows it.

NACAA waiver decisions that possible could go against the program cannot be used as an excuse if it’s another bottom half of the conference and no NCAA Tourney bid season. If that happens regardless of NCAA waiver decisions Pitino has ran out of excuses.

 

[skiumah1]

I like where your head is at. I also think this team has a lot of potential and a Sweet Sixteen birth would be awesome to witness. I think it all hinges on the NCAA random wheel of waiver decisions and if Carr decides to play one more year but it could be a very special season.

If we lose Carr my concern goes way up. Sounds like from everything being reported we expect him back but that would be a huge blow.

 

[Ski-U-Ham]

No wonder the mn kids go elsewhere.

Meaning... Context? I doubt there is any.

 

[Ski-U-Ham]

Again -
Robbins' Home town (where his parents live) Davenport, IA
Previous school Drake (Des Moines, IA)
new school MN (Mpls)

Distance from Home town to previous school 170 miles
distance from home town to new school 330 miles.

by transferring to MN, Robbins is moving farther away from home.

It's hard to argue you need to be closer to family if you are moving farther away.

But family support system goes from 200 miles away to 2 minutes away, albeit not immediate family. I think it's enough for this year, but I'm not the one who's opinion matters.

 

[Marky Dit]

I like the work Pitino has done in this spring recruiting period. That doesn't mean he's done a good job managing the roster to this point. It's more of a feeling that he's flying by the seat of his pants and won some big recruiting battles this spring.

He still signed Greenlee and Freeman a year ago - freshmen that gave you absolutely nothing in year one and didn't show any sort of ability to be contributors. Had he not gotten Gach, we'd be looking at a horrendous perimeter group and could be looking at a 2021 season in which more than half the allocated scholarships are devoted to guys who can't play on the perimeter.

Some of that is the nature of college hoops now - it's not program-building, rather it's roster construction year-to-year, but I still think Pitino needs a good year to keep his job. And I think he's been given plenty of time to do it. If he has a good year and this is the start of a lengthy run of competitive hoops, sign me up. But I'm still skeptical of his ability to build a sustainably successful program.

Agree 100% on Greenlee. Freeman could end up improving. A big man might develop. Might

 

[gophereric30]

Obviously everybody has their opinions on recruiting, but why does everyone get bent out of shape on minnesota guys. People still get upset about missing on garcia! Screw the guy. Would have been a nice get, but we have a bunch of experienced guys coming in from wherever! Rather have experienced guys than garcia. Garcia gonna be good, but l take an upperclassman over him. Also a guy who wants to be here! Garcia doesnt! By the way minnesota has has a nice run with great players, but overall basketball is played elsewhere too. I'm from chicago and division 1 players are all over the place. Nice to close down the borders, but cant blame Pitino for not getting anyone. Guy has worked his butt off to get guys and they chose elsewhere. Not Pitino's fault!

 

[Gopherbbdude]

Again -
Robbins' Home town (where his parents live) Davenport, IA
Previous school Drake (Des Moines, IA)
new school MN (Mpls)

Distance from Home town to previous school 170 miles
distance from home town to new school 330 miles.

by transferring to MN, Robbins is moving farther away from home.

It's hard to argue you need to be closer to family if you are moving farther away.

I don't think this is the argument being used for his waiver.... I could be wrong but if that was the case, there would be no reason for Pitino to keep it hush hush.

 

[Bad Gopher]

My point was less about Pitino's recruiting misses and more about how they all happened when he was in his first 3-4 seasons as a B1G head coach in his first real job. I've been happy with the recruiting he's done recently and think he's learned from his mistakes - the way he developed Mo Walker, Nate Mason, Jordan Murphy, Dupree McBrayer etc. wasn't subpar. Player development is not a concern I have with Pitino.

Part of what we're dealing with is an erosion of expectations during his tenure. People can be happy with his recruiting and coaching and player development all they want, but the team is still picked to finish in the bottom quarter or third of the league. I do feel like this roster has to potential to exceed that forecast and possibly by a lot, but many of us remember a time when we weren't cobbling rosters together with transfers and spring recruits and hoping they'd overachieve into a sixth-place league finish or miraculously alchemize into a second-weekend tournament run. What does Common Man call that: selling hope.

 

[builtbadgers]

Part of what we're dealing with is an erosion of expectations during his tenure. People can be happy with his recruiting and coaching and player development all they want, but the team is still picked to finish in the bottom quarter or third of the league. I do feel like this roster has to potential to exceed that forecast and possibly by a lot, but many of us remember a time when we weren't cobbling rosters together with transfers and spring recruits and hoping they'd overachieve into a sixth-place league finish or miraculously alchemize into a second-weekend tournament run. What does Common Man call that: selling hope.

There is truth to this but without hope, what do we have. I love research and facts but as a life long student of coaches i always sprinkle in a healthy dose of hope for the teams i support. I have seen worse rosters than this one win conference titles.

 

[Gopher Teeth]

Part of what we're dealing with is an erosion of expectations during his tenure. People can be happy with his recruiting and coaching and player development all they want, but the team is still picked to finish in the bottom quarter or third of the league. I do feel like this roster has to potential to exceed that forecast and possibly by a lot, but many of us remember a time when we weren't cobbling rosters together with transfers and spring recruits and hoping they'd overachieve into a sixth-place league finish or miraculously alchemize into a second-weekend tournament run. What does Common Man call that: selling hope.

Seriously? In the last 20 years, Minnesota has had 3 top half finishes, one of which was under Pitino, two under Monson. When was this age of "Camelot" you are referring to?

Nobody's expectations are eroding. Who cares where teams are picked? We have all followed this game long enough to know the picks are always wrong. Nobody here is saying they are excited to see them finish in 11th place.

Part of finishing in the top half is getting better players and that happens through recruiting and development, that is why people are excited about it; its a step towards being in the top half.

 

[Bad Gopher]

Seriously? In the last 20 years, Minnesota has had 3 top half finishes, one of which was under Pitino, two under Monson. When was this age of "Camelot" you are referring to?

Nobody's expectations are eroding. Who cares where teams are picked? We have all followed this game long enough to know the picks are always wrong. Nobody here is saying they are excited to see them finish in 11th place.

Part of finishing in the top half is getting better players and that happens through recruiting and development, that is why are excited about it, because its a step towards being in the top half.

I've followed the team closely since 1982 and have had season tickets since 1990.

 

[Gopher Teeth]

I've followed the team closely since 1982 and have had season tickets since 1990.

So when was the age you are referring to? If this age is over 20 years ago, then I would say you are wrong in saying " erosion of expectations during his (Pitino) tenure". I know you want to pin things on Pitino and anyone who stands up for him, but clearly the "erosion of expectations" happened long before Pitino ever showed up.

 

[Bad Gopher]

So when was the age you are referring to? If this age is over 20 years ago, then I would say you are wrong in saying " erosion of expectations during his (Pitino) tenure". I know you want to pin things on Pitino and anyone who stands up for him, but clearly the "erosion of expectations" happened long before Pitino ever showed up.

Monson didn't get the results we wanted (so we fired him), but his roster stability and roster management was pretty decent compared to Smith and Pitino. He wasn't perennially cobbling rosters together and hoping for the best. Indeed, where his tenure jumped the shark is probably when he got unstable with his roster later, specifically when he took back Mo Hargrow.

Bottom line is that much of the dissatisfaction with Tubby Smith was his roster management and spring recruits, etc., and then we hire a replacement that has been even shakier than he was. That's my point. When I say I remember different days, my point is that Clem and Dutcher showed that you don't have to run such a shaky ship at Minnesota. You're going to have a much better program when you have better roster management and balance and succession planning at positions.

 

[Holy Man]

Monson didn't get the results we wanted (so we fired him), but his roster stability and roster management was pretty decent compared to Smith and Pitino. He wasn't perennially cobbling rosters together and hoping for the best. Indeed, where his tenure jumped the shark is probably when he got unstable with his roster later, specifically when he took back Mo Hargrow.

Bottom line is that much of the dissatisfaction with Tubby Smith was his roster management and spring recruits, etc., and then we hire a replacement that has been even shakier than he was. That's my point. When I say I remember different days, my point is that Clem and Dutcher showed that you don't have to run such a shaky ship at Minnesota. You're going to have a much better program when you have better roster management and balance and succession planning at positions.

The across time analysis falls short considering multiple factors in the way rosters are constructed, much more movement of experienced players between teams, and higher quality players moving on to the pros more quickly. It's night and day between Clem and now. And its at least dawn to dusk from Tubby until now. I like a stable roster as much as anyone, but this year will become much more the norm for the Gophers and a lot of other programs than the stable rosters of yesteryear. Like has been said before, much of roster management is year to year now, and coaching college basketball will be closer to the old CBA than the old Big Ten. Not fun for me as a fan, but it is the world we live in.

 

[Bad Gopher]

The across time analysis falls short considering multiple factors in the way rosters are constructed, much more movement of experienced players between teams, and higher quality players moving on to the pros more quickly. It's night and day between Clem and now. And its at least dawn to dusk from Tubby until now. I like a stable roster as much as anyone, but this year will become much more the norm for the Gophers and a lot of other programs than the stable rosters of yesteryear. Like has been said before, much of roster management is year to year now, and coaching college basketball will be closer to the old CBA than the old Big Ten. Not fun for me as a fan, but it is the world we live in.

No question there's more potential for movement now than there was then, but it's selective memory if anyone claims the Gophers in Clem's era weren't subject to transfers and attrition. They lost Mark Jones after 1996 but still had a roster that went to the Final Four the next year. After 1997, they lost Courtney James and Charles Thomas but still recovered to go to the tournament two years later. A comparison in the present day would be how the Badgers were able to overcome last year's roster adversity (Strickland's transfer, Potter's eligibility issues, King's departure, Davison's suspension) and still won a share of the conference championship, largely because of the depth and otherwise stability of their roster.

My overarching point is that this team's roster assembly doesn't have to be the plot of Fast Break more years than not.

 

[alchemy2u]

Which coaches are you referring to that were in the middle of a nice run at a MAC school. Just curious, is that by age or by years of experience ? What is a nice run to you ? His 1st 3 years was 16-38, then his best year right in the middle at 11-7 and then 3 years of 21-35. To his credit he outrecruited several programs who have out performed us by miles. Just wondering, are you thinking that in the next 5 years that he will win the conference ? 12 years would be long enough to get that done just once. Will he be over .500 after 12 years because if he is not there is no way to say it was successful. What is good enough by your standards. Literally just asking.

Built, I have gone over it with you on numerous occasions. It is not a matter of different standards, you just do not listen to what I say. Long ago, you gave a list of very good coaches or ones you liked. I went through everyone of there records and Pitino stacked up with all of them except Bennet. I am looking at years as a head coach, period. Not resetting the record just when you coaches hit the P5 level. My comment was just a generic reference of how many coaches spend their first 5-15 or 20 years coaching at the MAC level or below. Pitino is 37 years old and just finished his 7th year in the B1G. We all know, hell he knows, that he was given the shot before he was full ready to compete at the B1G level. Most of the coaches in the B1G are very good and none of them took it easy on the kid, just as expected. Pitino has learned and is making progress.

 

[builtbadgers]

Built, I have gone over it with you on numerous occasions. It is not a matter of different standards, you just do not listen to what I say. Long ago, you gave a list of very good coaches or ones you liked. I went through everyone of there records and Pitino stacked up with all of them except Bennet. I am looking at years as a head coach, period. Not resetting the record just when you coaches hit the P5 level. My comment was just a generic reference of how many coaches spend their first 5-15 or 20 years coaching at the MAC level or below. Pitino is 37 years old and just finished his 7th year in the B1G. We all know, hell he knows, that he was given the shot before he was full ready to compete at the B1G level. Most of the coaches in the B1G are very good and none of them took it easy on the kid, just as expected. Pitino has learned and is making progress.

What progress, the last 3 barely are better than the first 3. You have your take on when the clock is set on time or when they are power 6 or age. I could care less how old they were or when they started. No one has a winning conference record after 7 years and goes on to build a sustainable powerhouse. No matter what level they started on the best coaches built foundations and a identity whether the won or lost initially but they all won conference titles by now, went to sweet 16's , even final 4's. Many had already built power houses before getting a power 6 job and they would do that anywhere. Name one guy with this winning % after 7 years, with one 4th place finish and one tournament victory that went on to do anything. I can not help you if you think Stevens would not have won in a major conference, he beat the big boys. Are you thinking that Pitino will win conference titles here because he gets older ? It is a matter of standards. I am saying that by now we should have seen better results if he was a gifted coach. Your saying something else and that is ok, these are just opinions and your not the only one with yours and i am not the only one with mine. He is ranked very low in our conference by the vast majority. People do have standards that vary by their view of results so if i assessed standards for great, really good, good, average, mediocre, poor i would say mediocre. If you see it differently, so be it. Everyone can decide for themselves. I will not be changing your mind.