Power 5 teams with 9+ wins in each of the last three full seasons

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GoForGold said:
I think it's realistic for this program to follow the Kansas State model. They were a program that came out of nowhere and has become a consistent winner for the last 30 years. I think Fleck could create a legacy here comparable to Bill Snyder at KSU.
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He's already doing this by essentially emulating Barry Alvarez. It seems to be working quite well.
 

GoForGold said:
I agree. Changing coaches on a whim is a bad idea. I think Fleck has more potential than Mason because he seems to see this as a destination job.
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Mason’s biggest fight was to get the program out of the damn dome and back on campus. He never got to recruit to the new on campus stadium, but every coach after mason has been able to recruit to and play in the stadium that had been approved to be built and had been given life as a result of the University bringing football back to the campus.

This huge event for Gopher football also paved the way for the Vikings to play in the new Gopher on campus stadium during the years it took to demolish the damn dome and build the new billion and a half $$$ new Viking palace for the Wilf family NFL franchise aka: the Vikings.

Mason campaigned for a return to campus his entire time as the U of M Football Coach. All other coaches that followed including Brewster, Kill, TC and now Coach Fleck have had a jewel of a stadium on campus to recruit to and play in! That was a MAJOR victory for Gopher Football!!!
 
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I'm A Maroon 2! said:
He's already doing this by essentially emulating Barry Alvarez. It seems to be working quite well.
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Alvarez already had a Rose Bowl win under his belt at this point in his tenure.

Alvarez had the three really good seasons, better seasons than we've had in decades. The rest of his career was extremely mediocre. Only once finished above .500 in the Big Ten 3 years in a row in 16 seasons. Fleck has done it in 5 full seasons.

Fleck has the program in the good category. Now we'll have to see if he can produce the occasional great season. 2019 was so close to that.
 

To be clear.
I don't hate Fleck.
I think the program has improved under Fleck.

but the question remains, to quote Peggy Lee, "is that all there is?"

under Mason, Kill and Claeys, there were fans - including many on this board - who said that winning 8 games and going to a mid-level bowl game wasn't good enough.

Fleck was brought in here to do better.

and now, we have fans saying that winning 8 games and going to a mid-level bowl game is fine.

all I am asking for is a little perspective.

Yes, the program has improved under Fleck.

But - at the same time - no division titles and 0-6 vs Iowa.

If you think Fleck is great, that's your prerogative. Call me when Floyd is back in the trophy case.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
To be clear.
I don't hate Fleck.
I think the program has improved under Fleck.

but the question remains, to quote Peggy Lee, "is that all there is?"

under Mason, Kill and Claeys, there were fans - including many on this board - who said that winning 8 games and going to a mid-level bowl game wasn't good enough.

Fleck was brought in here to do better.

and now, we have fans saying that winning 8 games and going to a mid-level bowl game is fine.

all I am asking for is a little perspective.

Yes, the program has improved under Fleck.

But - at the same time - no division titles and 0-6 vs Iowa.

If you think Fleck is great, that's your prerogative. Call me when Floyd is back in the trophy case.
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PJ came in talking about Rose Bowls and National titles. I think he regrets that.

I still take our last 5 years over any of the previous 5 year periods in my lifetime.
 


short ornery norwegian said:
under Mason, Kill and Claeys, there were fans - including many on this board - who said that winning 8 games and going to a mid-level bowl game wasn't good enough.

Fleck was brought in here to do better.
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While Fleck was brought in to hopefully elevate the program from where previous coaches had it, he wasn't brought in because winning 8 games every year wasn't acceptable anymore. Winning 8 games has been far from the norm for Minnesota football.

Mason was going to mid tier bowl games but he wasn't winning 8 games every year. In fact he only got to 8 or more wins 3 times in his run at Minnesota. He was let go because it was time for a change.

In general people were happy with Kill and where he had the program. Jerry left on his own, he was nowhere close to being on the hotseat based on performance.

Claeys was a one year fill in and was never going to be more than that.

So this idea that winning 8 games a year under previous coaches wasn't good enough for the majority of fans isn't really a thing.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
To be clear.
I don't hate Fleck.
I think the program has improved under Fleck.

but the question remains, to quote Peggy Lee, "is that all there is?"

under Mason, Kill and Claeys, there were fans - including many on this board - who said that winning 8 games and going to a mid-level bowl game wasn't good enough.

Fleck was brought in here to do better.

and now, we have fans saying that winning 8 games and going to a mid-level bowl game is fine.

all I am asking for is a little perspective.

Yes, the program has improved under Fleck.

But - at the same time - no division titles and 0-6 vs Iowa.

If you think Fleck is great, that's your prerogative. Call me when Floyd is back in the trophy case.
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Fleck has division title. A co-title. You've made this mistake of commission before. I thought you were a news guy?
 

MNVCGUY said:
While Fleck was brought in to hopefully elevate the program from where previous coaches had it, he wasn't brought in because winning 8 games every year wasn't acceptable anymore. Winning 8 games has been far from the norm for Minnesota football.

Mason was going to mid tier bowl games but he wasn't winning 8 games every year. In fact he only got to 8 or more wins 3 times in his run at Minnesota. He was let go because it was time for a change.

In general people were happy with Kill and where he had the program. Jerry left on his own, he was nowhere close to being on the hotseat based on performance.

Claeys was a one year fill in and was never going to be more than that.

So this idea that winning 8 games a year under previous coaches wasn't good enough for the majority of fans isn't really a thing.
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You need to go back and watch Coyle in Fleck's intro presser. His expectations were high. No knock on Fleck, but Coyle's expectations were pretty clear.
 
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Panthadad2 said:
Fleck has division title. A co-title. You've made this mistake of commission before. I thought you were a news guy?
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did they play in the Conference Championship Game?

No.

who plays in the Conference Championship game?

The Division Champs.

ergo, if they did not play in the Conference Championship Game, they are not the Division Champs.
because they lost the tie-breaker.

but I'm sure we can find you a nice participation trophy, if that's what's important to you.
 



I
Gophers1992 said:
Another thing people forget is that Brew went to 2 bowl games in 4 years. Not that that’s impressive by any means but based on memory you would have thought he won about 3 games in his whole tenure the way people talk.
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I think the 2008 team was at 6-0 before a disheartening OT home loss to Northwestern. Also, that was a bad Michigan team that later came to the Dome and hammered the Gophers. A big blown chance to get The Jug.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
did they play in the Conference Championship Game?

No.

who plays in the Conference Championship game?

The Division Champs.

ergo, if they did not play in the Conference Championship Game, they are not the Division Champs.
because they lost the tie-breaker.

but I'm sure we can find you a nice participation trophy, if that's what's important to you.
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The Big Ten stat book has the Gophs as division champs 2019. You were a reporter?

Do you deny that the Gophs had Big Ten Championships in 1967 because they didn't have the tiebreaker for the Rose Bowl? Or several other shared co-championships? I doubt it.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
To be clear.
I don't hate Fleck.
I think the program has improved under Fleck.

but the question remains, to quote Peggy Lee, "is that all there is?"

under Mason, Kill and Claeys, there were fans - including many on this board - who said that winning 8 games and going to a mid-level bowl game wasn't good enough.

Fleck was brought in here to do better.

and now, we have fans saying that winning 8 games and going to a mid-level bowl game is fine.

all I am asking for is a little perspective.

Yes, the program has improved under Fleck.

But - at the same time - no division titles and 0-6 vs Iowa.

If you think Fleck is great, that's your prerogative. Call me when Floyd is back in the trophy case.
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No one is saying we should build a statue. I think it’s okay to be happy with our coach so far, I’m certainly glad when he signs an extension. I think he has us in position to where a double digit win season is in play every year if things click. I don’t see the wheels falling off any time soon.
 

Panthadad2 said:
The Big Ten stat book has the Gophs as division champs 2019. You were a reporter?

Do you deny that the Gophs had Big Ten Championships in 1967 because they didn't have the tiebreaker for the Rose Bowl? Or several other shared co-championships? I doubt it.
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fine. have it your way. The Gophers were the Co-champions of the West division in 2019.

So, why didn't they play in the Conference Championship game?

Because they lost the head-to-head game with Wisconsin.

In the biggest game of the year, with a possible berth in the Conference Championship game on the line, the Gophers lost to Wisconsin. 38-17. Is that really something for a Gopher fan to celebrate?

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BTW - in 1967, the Gophers beat Indiana but lost to Purdue as those 3 teams all finished 6-1 in conference games. Indiana went to the Rose Bowl because of a conference rule that, in the case of a tie, the team with the longest absence from the Rose Bowl would represent the conference. So, in that case, the Gophers actually defeated the team that went to the Rose Bowl.
 



btowngopher said:
No one is saying we should build a statue. I think it’s okay to be happy with our coach so far, I’m certainly glad when he signs an extension. I think he has us in position to where a double digit win season is in play every year if things click. I don’t see the wheels falling off any time soon.
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Since they entered the Big Ten 30 years ago, Penn State has had 11 double digit win seasons. To expect PJ to get double digit wins every season is a huge ask. I know you said in position for it, but as the divisions likely dissolve and add tougher competition like USC, hitting double digit wins every 5 years would be great.
 

Nomellini said:
I

I think the 2008 team was at 6-0 before a disheartening OT home loss to Northwestern. Also, that was a bad Michigan team that later came to the Dome and hammered the Gophers. A big blown chance to get The Jug.
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That NW loss was a backbreaker. I still remember the stadium going silent.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
To be clear.
I don't hate Fleck.
I think the program has improved under Fleck.

but the question remains, to quote Peggy Lee, "is that all there is?"

under Mason, Kill and Claeys, there were fans - including many on this board - who said that winning 8 games and going to a mid-level bowl game wasn't good enough.

Fleck was brought in here to do better.

and now, we have fans saying that winning 8 games and going to a mid-level bowl game is fine.

all I am asking for is a little perspective.

Yes, the program has improved under Fleck.

But - at the same time - no division titles and 0-6 vs Iowa.

If you think Fleck is great, that's your prerogative. Call me when Floyd is back in the trophy case.
Click to expand...

This is just my opinion, take it for what it's worth;

The improvement as they move forward is going to be more and more difficult and more and more incremental. I would equate it to lowering your handicap in golf. It is infinitely more difficult to improve from a 9 handicap to a 6 handicap than it is to improve from a 20 handy to a 15.

Fleck has moved the Gophers from about a 13 handicap to about an 8; the improvement going forward will be more challenging, and less obvious, but I really think it's going to be there. I'm more optimistic about the future of the program than I have ever been before, no doubt.
 

imthewalrus said:
Mason’s biggest fight was to get the program out of the damn dome and back on campus. He never got to recruit to the new on campus stadium, but every coach after mason has been able to recruit to and play in the stadium that had been approved to be built and had been given life as a result of the University bringing football back to the campus.

This huge event for Gopher football also paved the way for the Vikings to play in the new Gopher on campus stadium during the years it took to demolish the damn dome and build the new billion and a half $$$ new Viking palace for the Wilf family NFL franchise aka: the Vikings.

Mason campaigned for a return to campus his entire time as the U of M Football Coach. All other coaches that followed including Brewster, Kill, TC and now Coach Fleck have had a jewel of a stadium on campus to recruit to and play in! That was a MAJOR victory for Gopher Football!!!
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I give Mason a lot of the credit for getting a new stadium built. He should have had a chance to be the coach when that stadium opened up. I appreciate that he seems to harbor no bitterness and still pulls for the Gophers.
 

I'm A Maroon 2! said:
Since they entered the Big Ten 30 years ago, Penn State has had 11 double digit win seasons. To expect PJ to get double digit wins every season is a huge ask. I know you said in position for it, but as the divisions likely dissolve and add tougher competition like USC, hitting double digit wins every 5 years would be great.
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I agree, every five years would be great. I’m just saying it’s not like he goes through cycles of building towards a team capable of double digit wins then having it crash and starting over. Double digits were easily available the last two seasons and that goal was reached four years ago. Hard to predict the future, but the talent seems to be there where they’ll be in position to chase that goal in the coming years as well. I know next year with Michigan and OSU on the schedule it’s tough, but we’re certainly capable of beating everyone else.
 

We must recall that the chances of winning 9 games or more greatly increased in 2006 when a 12th game was added to the 11 game season schedule that allowed for a division 1AA game to count towards bowl elegibility.

A 9 win season is still a big deal though!!!
 




GophersInIowa said:
Alvarez already had a Rose Bowl win under his belt at this point in his tenure.

Alvarez had the three really good seasons, better seasons than we've had in decades. The rest of his career was extremely mediocre. Only once finished above .500 in the Big Ten 3 years in a row in 16 seasons. Fleck has done it in 5 full seasons.

Fleck has the program in the good category. Now we'll have to see if he can produce the occasional great season. 2019 was so close to that.
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In his first 6 seasons Alvarez was
1-10
5-6
5-6
10-1-1
8-3-1
4-5-2


Not sure which 3 seasons you are talking about


Edit: I read what you wrote incorrectly. I read your first two sentences as going together
 



And let's see where Boise, WI, and notre dame are after Fleck has been here 10 years. Regardless of where Fleck falls then, clearly this shows 10 years back at this point is changing.
 

GophersInIowa said:
Alvarez already had a Rose Bowl win under his belt at this point in his tenure.

Alvarez had the three really good seasons, better seasons than we've had in decades. The rest of his career was extremely mediocre. Only once finished above .500 in the Big Ten 3 years in a row in 16 seasons. Fleck has done it in 5 full seasons.

Fleck has the program in the good category. Now we'll have to see if he can produce the occasional great season. 2019 was so close to that.
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Can we compare today’s Big 10 with when Alvarez was coaching? The unbalanced schedule playing more games against what during PJ’s tenure is the the weak West and the addition of also rans Maryland and Rutgers makes comparing PJ against say Alvarez and Mason apples and oranges, IMO. You have the most well thought out opinions on the board if you say otherwise I’ll listen. PJ is doing fine he has potential to do even better, I just don’t think he’s elevated our results and the quality of our wins to date as much as he and others would have us believe? I may be on ignore from the Wayzata discussion and from hammering 55 and 2, but if not will appreciate your thoughts.
 

I thought I'd expand the time period to track 9+ win streaks of Big Ten teams. The period in the table below represents the last 8 full years. That is the period from the beginning of the conference's current 14 team membership (2014) through this season with the 2020 short year excluded.

The table of teams who have had a streak of 3 or more 9+ win seasons during that time are shown below with the length and years of the streak. There are 5 Big Ten teams who have done that: OSU, MICH, PSU, WISC, and MINN during the period. Three of those streaks are current.

1672587249846.png
 

Gopherchase said:
cjbfbp said:
I thought I'd expand the time period to track 9+ win streaks of Big Ten teams. The period in the table below represents the last 8 full years. That is the period from the beginning of the conference's current 14 team membership (2014) until this season with the 2020 short year excluded.

The table of teams who have had a streak of 3 or more 9+ win seasons during that time are shown below with the length and years of the streak. There are 5 Big Ten teams who have done that: OSU, MICH, PSU, WISC, and MINN during the period. Three of those streaks are current.

View attachment 22875
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Well done. Very informative. Now we're getting to the heart of the matter.
 

PMWinSTP said:
You need to go back and watch Coyle in Fleck's intro presser. His expectations were high. No knock on Fleck, but Coyle's expectations were pretty clear.
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Is there more video than this because Coyle's remarks here aren't anything out of line or crazy. Saying we want to compete at the highest level doesn't mean we have to win National Championships because there is a reality to the landscape of college football that Coyle is certainly aware of.

 

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