Potential Lineups for this Season

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Bob_Loblaw said:
I don't really mind which guards start, but Ihnen at the 3 is inexcusably awful.

I could be wrong and he could have completely revolutionized his game but if he is anything like he was prior to injury in terms of style, this is a catastrophic level of incompetence. You cannot simply roll out a PF who can shoot as a wing. They aren't the same thing. You would have thought we learned the lesson last year with Battle. At least with THAT awful decision, Battle had actually proven he was a good shooter for a PF. With Ihnen, we just kind of think he can shoot.

Our guards/wings need to be a combo of Hawkins, Mitchell, Carrington and Christie for the vast majority of minutes. I get that would mean one of our 5 best players isn't a starter but positions matter. A guard is not just a forward who can (theoretically) shoot the ball.
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Ihnen can guard multiple positions at a high level, that makes him valuable and why he is a viable starter at the 3.
 

Ihnen can guard multiple positions at a high level, that makes him valuable and why he is a viable starter at the 3.
But does he have enough length to be playing from a wheel chair? Just asking for Howdy.
 
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GopherBlood666 said:

I would rather go Mitchell, Carrington, Christie, Garcia, Payne. First 3 off the bench being Hawkins, JOJ, Ihnen. What do you think GH?
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Christie will not be a starter and I don’t see JOJ coming off the bench to start the season, Mitchell and Hawkins will have to battle for the starting spot
 



GopherBlood666 said:
Yeah I like Ramberg but would prefer to not see him play if possible. We just had no choice the last 2 seasons per the depth we had and he still barely played.
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If Ramberg shouldn't play, I wish he would have transferred out so his scholarship could have gone to AJ Plitzuweit. AJ combined with Mitchell and Hawkins would have given the Gophers three guards with PG skills and over 43% 3Pt accuracy playing together. I'd like to see opposing teams defend THAT!
 

Sane24 said:
If either Hawkins or Mitchell come off the bench in the first preseason game, they may be in the transfer portal by halftime.
I would bet they were both "promised" starting positions to transfer to the Gophers.
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Can't keep more than 5 guys happy...
 

bga1 said:
If Ihnen is ready physically, I like it. The lineup offers defense, solid speed, and really good rebounding potential as well as a couple of really good 3 point shooters. The good news about this year is that we have several other combinations offering the same thing. If you aren't playing good defense, the coach should be sitting your fanny on the bench. That's what we need and have lacked.

If this were the lineup we have Christie and Carrington available to come in and light it up off the bench. Betts, Fox and JOJ to defend and hit the boards.

I talked to a guy a few days ago who knows a U guy who is at every practice. He sees good possibilities for a middle of the pack finish for this team if they jell.
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I know a guy who knows a guy? How many more relationships to Kevin Bacon? 😂

I’m grateful for your optimism and I hope you’re right.
 
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jovs said:
Ihnen can guard multiple positions at a high level, that makes him valuable and why he is a viable starter at the 3.
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I get you're stating that but no one has ever been given any reason to believe this is true. I know you probably have all three Rockraven's agreeing with you, but you're just saying shit and hoping it's true. I hope it's true too.

Could he defend a 3? Maybe? We haven't seen it, but i'll buy that to some extent. It would be insanely stupid to have him out chasing around wings on the perimeter when his best skills in his career so far has been his interior defense and rebounding.

That said, he has shown absolutely no ability to play a wing on offense.

Ihnen has never shown the ability to handle the basketball.
His 1.7 assists per 40 is closer to Gaston Diedhou (1.0) than he is to even Jaden Henley (2.5).
His "selling point" for being able to play SF is that he is a career 29% three point shooter (mind you these are on open looks while sitting in the corner as a stretch 4).

I hope I'm wrong and Ihnen has transformed himself into something he wasn't prior to the injuries. It's possible. He's a talented guy.

If he hasn't and Ben fails again at understanding that you can't play a PF at the wing, he's clueless. I'm sure the same people saying that Ihnen can play the 3 now will be the ones saying "of course he couldn't play the 3, but what other option did we have" over the course of the season.
 

bga1 said:
Other than Ramberg- the other players make you look bad. He tried it early in the season and none of them performed will. I will say this, I would have sat Battle for Ramberg 5 more minutes a game. Ramberg plays in the system and plays hard despite a lack of offensive talent.
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IF we were forced to do it last year, why are people okay with us talking about doing it again this year?
 

GopherBlood666 said:
First season he trusted only 6, last season he trusted 7 by BTT time. If he makes it to 8 this year that will be positive. Ben has shown no ability yet to mix in more guys than that, but I am optimistic we will have 8 guys he will trust this year.
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Remember when Tubby made his hockey-line changes? Wild!
 


DeathClutch said:
People are forgetting that Hawkins was the starting PG and leading scorer for a tourney team. As well as 1st team All-Conference. Definitely needs to cut down on some of the turnovers, but I doubt he comes off the bench.
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People are forgetting that tourney team had a worse KenPom rating than the Gophers last season because they play in one of the worst conferences on the country.
 

Sane24 said:
If Ramberg shouldn't play, I wish he would have transferred out so his scholarship could have gone to AJ Plitzuweit. AJ combined with Mitchell and Hawkins would have given the Gophers three guards with PG skills and over 43% 3Pt accuracy playing together. I'd like to see opposing teams defend THAT!
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He WAS a walk on that Ben decided to give a scholarship to. I would have been totally fine with him remaining a walk on so we could sign a guard with better ability. I also want a 3 guard starting lineup, which is why I suggested Mitchell/Carrington/Christie to accomplish this. Mitchell has the size to play off guard if needed to bring in Hawkins, or Hawkins comes in to spell Mitchell as primary ball handler. JOJ/Ihnen/Betts are not guards, but can plug in to the 3-5 spots off the bench fairly easily. All are versatile enough to cover any of those spots for brief stretches, but none are likely good enough (yes at least) to be considered the dominant player at any one position to win a starting spot.
 

No telling who will start to begin the year. My starters prediction for the first Big Ten game will be: Hawkins, Mitchell, Betts, Garcia, Payne.
 

disclaimer - just because someone starts the 1st game of the season, that does not guarantee that the same person starts in game #10 or game #20.

Early on, I definitely could see Hawkins and Mitchell starting based on experience. Carrington missed a lot of time last year with injuries, and Christie is a true FR. so I don't expect them to be playing heavy minutes right off the bat. But, as others have noted, I suspect that one of Hawkins or Mitchell will be on the court at all times, so there will have to be some type of rotation at PG and SG.

at the wing/3 - Ihnen has missed two consecutive seasons with injuries. based on that alone, I don't see him as a game #1 starter.

in fact, I could be wrong, but I could see that 3 position rotating all year based on matchups. against certain teams, JOJ may make more sense, while against a different team, maybe Christie or Ihnen makes more sense. If Betts really comes along, he could get more playing time as the season progresses.

on the front line, I think that's a little more certain. Payne and Garcia are your starters, barring injury. Wilson and Fox/Ihnen rotate in.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
I get you're stating that but no one has ever been given any reason to believe this is true. I know you probably have all three Rockraven's agreeing with you, but you're just saying shit and hoping it's true. I hope it's true too.

Could he defend a 3? Maybe? We haven't seen it, but i'll buy that to some extent. It would be insanely stupid to have him out chasing around wings on the perimeter when his best skills in his career so far has been his interior defense and rebounding.

That said, he has shown absolutely no ability to play a wing on offense.

Ihnen has never shown the ability to handle the basketball.
His 1.7 assists per 40 is closer to Gaston Diedhou (1.0) than he is to even Jaden Henley (2.5).
His "selling point" for being able to play SF is that he is a career 29% three point shooter (mind you these are on open looks while sitting in the corner as a stretch 4).

I hope I'm wrong and Ihnen has transformed himself into something he wasn't prior to the injuries. It's possible. He's a talented guy.

If he hasn't and Ben fails again at understanding that you can't play a PF at the wing, he's clueless. I'm sure the same people saying that Ihnen can play the 3 now will be the ones saying "of course he couldn't play the 3, but what other option did we have" over the course of the season.
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I agree that we really don't know if Ihnen can guard a 3 or if he can be an effective wing on offense. Here's what I would say about him: He is a career 29% shooter from 3, but he did shoot 38% on 45 3's his freshman season, and all of his shots were not all open looks from the corner. The guy has a good stroke and may surprise people. He's long, he is an excellent rebounder, and he isn't a great ball handler but my guess is he's improved his handle over the past 2 years, and I didn't see him as an awful ball handler his first 2 years.

Defensively, he moves very well laterally (at least he used to) and he should be able to guard more than one position. I don't care what position he's playing, a guy like this can be very valuable, and assuming he can move well after his surgeries (no, we don't now that yet), I think he's one of the surprises this year and shows that he's a valuable piece for this team.
 

GopherBlood666 said:
I agree that Hawkins would be on paper a starter relative to our roster, but you cannot leave yourself with no fire power on the bench. Carrington or Christie start making dumb plays, then you yank them and Hawkins or JOJ comes in. It would be great if Ben could use his bench to hold starters accountable so there is actual growth amongst the team as the season progresses. If Ben goes best 5, I feel like he will just run the starters ragged like he has the past 2 seasons (because we had no reliable depth on the bench).
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I imagine that Mitchell and Hawkins minutes will be a little staggered so either one plays with the bench, ensuring a point guard is always on the floor.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
I get you're stating that but no one has ever been given any reason to believe this is true. I know you probably have all three Rockraven's agreeing with you, but you're just saying shit and hoping it's true. I hope it's true too.

Could he defend a 3? Maybe? We haven't seen it, but i'll buy that to some extent. It would be insanely stupid to have him out chasing around wings on the perimeter when his best skills in his career so far has been his interior defense and rebounding.

That said, he has shown absolutely no ability to play a wing on offense.

Ihnen has never shown the ability to handle the basketball.
His 1.7 assists per 40 is closer to Gaston Diedhou (1.0) than he is to even Jaden Henley (2.5).
His "selling point" for being able to play SF is that he is a career 29% three point shooter (mind you these are on open looks while sitting in the corner as a stretch 4).

I hope I'm wrong and Ihnen has transformed himself into something he wasn't prior to the injuries. It's possible. He's a talented guy.

If he hasn't and Ben fails again at understanding that you can't play a PF at the wing, he's clueless. I'm sure the same people saying that Ihnen can play the 3 now will be the ones saying "of course he couldn't play the 3, but what other option did we have" over the course of the season.
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You have no evaluation skills. You look at old numbers from an overseas player and convert them to unrealistic and erroneous statements. Can not even rate them as evaluations. You are irrelevant, but you have every right to be irrelevant.
 


We are trying to make decisions without almost any information. Personalities matter:
some kids have one goal: to be a starter. They promised their mom, told their girlfriend etc
Don't start this kid and you realize you've lost him for awhile. Some kids come in the office and say you gotta start Joey, it's really important to him...I wanna come off the bench...I wanna be on the floor at the end when it matters. All kinds of personality things we don't know.

Ben has said he likes playing 7. Since then he could have changed his mind but we don't know.
How many play will effect who starts.

We haven't seen these guys play together at all. Certain combinations just work.

Are Fox and Ihnen healthy enough to compete for spots?

If all these guys are healthy and competing we certainly need to play 10 guys all pre season with our schedule and see what sorts itself out. It seems we have a roster that could possibly compete if we utilize effectively.

Another question: are we running this year? or are we hoping to emulate Wisconsin's pace again?
Pretty big question as well.

If Fox and Ihnen are able to be solid contributors or actually good...then we better be playing 10 and there is no reason we should not be competitive.
 


GopherBlood666 said:
He WAS a walk on that Ben decided to give a scholarship to. I would have been totally fine with him remaining a walk on so we could sign a guard with better ability. I also want a 3 guard starting lineup, which is why I suggested Mitchell/Carrington/Christie to accomplish this. Mitchell has the size to play off guard if needed to bring in Hawkins, or Hawkins comes in to spell Mitchell as primary ball handler. JOJ/Ihnen/Betts are not guards, but can plug in to the 3-5 spots off the bench fairly easily. All are versatile enough to cover any of those spots for brief stretches, but none are likely good enough (yes at least) to be considered the dominant player at any one position to win a starting spot.
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Problem is that Plitzuweit, Hawkins and Mitchell have all already demonstrated their ball-handling and 43%+ 3pt% for two+ college seasons.
Carrington has one injury-marred season and Christie has never played college basketball yet.
Putting the proven skill sets of Plitzuweit, Hawkins and Mitchell and their combined seven seasons of college experience on the court together would have been exceptionally special.
 

Say what you want but Hawkins is going to start. He’s played two years of college and HS at DeMatha , so he has been playing at a high level for awhile. The B1G is not too big for him.

I see it going like this:

PG: Hawkins
SG: Mitchell
SF: Christie/Ihnen/JoJ/KK
PF: Garcia
C: Payne

SF is the only guessing game. Christie has to overcome being a freshman, but Ben has started freshmen before. Ihnen and JoJ are not SFs. KK has played two years of Euro ball and could play some if he can play good D. In any case, the only pure SFs are Christie, Special K, and you, Ramburg.

Hard to say if he’s more comfortable playing someone out of position or not. He is coaching for his job this time.
 

Sane24 said:
Problem is that Plitzuweit, Hawkins and Mitchell have all already demonstrated their ball-handling and 43%+ 3pt% for two+ college seasons.
Carrington has one injury-marred season and Christie has never played college basketball yet.
Putting the proven skill sets of Plitzuweit, Hawkins and Mitchell and their combined seven seasons of college experience on the court together would have been exceptionally special.
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This is kind of pointless to talk about since AJP is not going to be on the team, we have no scholarships to award at this point. It sounds nice in theory though.
 

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