Poll : Mandel states NIL era has “not been a debacle”

[Pompous Elitist]

On his most recent pod

 

[Pompous Elitist]

For context Stew and Bruce were discussing players as employees and the arguments against. His stated belief was that while some non-revenue sports and scholarships may be cut to better compete in football “everything will work itself out” and all the “scaremongering” about NIL was wrong. I thought that was an interesting comment.

The poll is an attempt to get the feel of fans on the NIL era, associated knock-on effects on your views and enjoyment of college football.

 

[upnorthkid]

For context Stew and Bruce were discussing players as employees and the arguments against. His stated belief was that while some non-revenue sports and scholarships may be cut to better compete in football “everything will work itself out” and all the “scaremongering” about NIL was wrong. I thought that was an interesting comment.

The poll is an attempt to get the feel of fans on the NIL era, associated knock-on effects on your views and enjoyment of college football.

He literally says exactly why people don’t like this and describes movement entirely further away from what college sports was supposed to be about. Now that’s 0% on the athletes and is due to greed from admins, universities, the NCAA, etc., but it’s sad to see

 

[MNVCGUY]

Didn't hear the podcast but the "NIL" era has been a complete and total mess. Players are moving all over the place, teams are poaching players from other rosters, coaches are leaving because they don't want to deal with all the other crap. The pay for play/free transfer era we are in right now for college football is a complete cluster&!%^.

The fact that we seemingly spend more time talking about collectives than anything else is a clear sign of just how dumb this has all become.

 

[PMWinSTP]

He literally says exactly why people don’t like this and describes movement entirely further away from what college sports was supposed to be about. Now that’s 0% on the athletes and is due to greed from admins, universities, the NCAA, etc., but it’s sad to see

So you voted debacle?

 

[fmlizard]

Mandel obsesses over the bluest of the blue bloods (even as a jNW alum) so it’s not surprising he likes those schools getting even stronger

 

[Gopher_Devil]

NIL not being a debacle is a STRONG contender for worst take of the year.

If he wants to argue semantics then no NIL hasn’t been a debacle because it is as prevalent as ever. The connotation is entirely different though. Some much of this chaos can be traced back exclusively to NIL. And the chaos has never been more prevalent.

Pardon the tangent but I feel like some of these sports talking heads talk/think about sports so much that they eventually subvert their own common sense with their edgy takes. Like their brain has been tied up in a straight jacket and locked in a Bdubs. Eventually they regress into this state where saying something new is automatically an accurate and trendy take. Obviously guys like Skip and Steven A have fallen to this demise but even mid level podcasters are vulnerable to it too.

 

[WoodburyTim]

Mandel wanted this for years and is pretending he is right.

 

[WAGopher]

NIL is a debacle. It’s the Wild West right now and some players and NIL investors are going to have nice pay days until it has some rules.

Colllege sports are now worse than professional sports in the aspect that fans of college teams are now expected to give money to the collectives. We have coaches, including PJ, openly ask fans to send money to an NIK collective. Some fans are happy to do this, but I would think the majority will not.

This will be a hot topic for quite a while.

 

[upnorthkid]

So you voted debacle?

Clicked the wrong one on my phone but yeah it’s been a debacle with the how its rolled out and it’s ripple effect.

 

[GopherWeatherGuy]

NIL isn't the debacle. The free transfer without sitting out is the debacle. Players should be able to make money during college.

If players have to start sitting out again if they decide to transfer, then coaches can coach and hold players accountable, and NIL is much more under control.

 

[Gophers1992]

NIL isn't the debacle. The free transfer without sitting out is the debacle. Players should be able to make money during college.

If players have to start sitting out again if they decide to transfer, then coaches can coach and hold players accountable, and NIL is much more under control.

Ding ding ding. Everyone wants to make NIL the boogeyman but it's the roster turnover that is a mess.

 

[WoodburyTim]

Why do we still even call it NIL? Players are just being purchased. Only a very few are being compensated for their image and likeness.

 

[Pompous Elitist]

NIL isn't the debacle. The free transfer without sitting out is the debacle. Players should be able to make money during college.

If players have to start sitting out again if they decide to transfer, then coaches can coach and hold players accountable, and NIL is much more under control.

There are federal judges opining restrictions on college player transfers violate the Sherman Antitrust Act of 1890. All it takes is someone to bring a lawsuit.

At what point judicial opinions on legality of league rules affecting a players right to pursue NIL $ make the sport impossible to operate is anyone’s guess. Apparently their hands are tied to make exceptions.


.

 

[MaxyJR1]

Mandel obsesses over the bluest of the blue bloods (even as a jNW alum) so it’s not surprising he likes those schools getting even stronger

Do you think the blue bloods are getting stronger?

 

[fmlizard]

Do you think the blue bloods are getting stronger?

Yes, I do. Last season was the greatest gap between the Big Three and the rest of the Big Ten that I can recall since at least the mid 90s.

 

[MaxyJR1]

Yes, I do. Last season was the greatest gap between the Big Three and the rest of the Big Ten that I can recall since at least the mid 90s.

That's one season. We shall see. tOSU and Penn State were #10 and #13 in the final poll. Notre Dame and Oklahoma were lower. I guess it depends on what blue blood criteria is.

17 FBS teams lost 3 or fewer games. In 2022 that number was 15. In 2021 that number was 21. in 2019 it was 21 as well. Seems there is more parity with a short sample size.

 

[GopherTheJugular]

Do you think the blue bloods are getting stronger?

I'd say yes because now they can kick out their underperforming players and replace them with more top-end high school players.

But I'd also say that one could manipulate the term "blue-blood" to make the other side of the argument, so I'll state I'm using it to refer to who is at the top now: Michigan, tOSU, 'bama, Georgia. I'll concede that some schools that refer to themselves as "blue bloods" aren't doing so well right now.

 

[Hates Monikers]

NIL isn't the debacle. The free transfer without sitting out is the debacle. Players should be able to make money during college.

If players have to start sitting out again if they decide to transfer, then coaches can coach and hold players accountable, and NIL is much more under control.

I would say the NCAA's poor communication about NIL rules -- or maybe it's enforcement -- has been a debacle (in addition to free transfers). I've heard Coyle and his guy in charge of NIL, not to mention Derek Burns of Dinkytown Athletes, say multiple times that NIL is not supposed to be for pay-to-play -- and that we're abiding by those rules. But nobody else seems to be. No it changed recently, but due to a court ruling, rather than the NCAA doing anything.

 

[GopherWeatherGuy]

I would say the NCAA's poor communication about NIL rules -- or maybe it's enforcement -- has been a debacle (in addition to free transfers). I've heard Coyle and his guy in charge of NIL, not to mention Derek Burns of Dinkytown Athletes, say multiple times that NIL is not supposed to be for pay-to-play -- and that we're abiding by those rules. But nobody else seems to be. No it changed recently, but due to a court ruling, rather than the NCAA doing anything.

It's all pay for play, just like it was pre NIL. And I don't really believe that we're abiding by those rules either.

But players can't be lured away as easily by money if they have to sit out a year.

 

[Gopherchase]

Yes, I do. Last season was the greatest gap between the Big Three and the rest of the Big Ten that I can recall since at least the mid 90s.

Agreed. Michigan was scary strong hell we didn’t even try to win the game just tried to get it over with. Was it an anomaly— will be interesting to see but PJ said in his press conference we kept 15-16 returning starters so kudos to us this year.

 

[50PoundHead]

Of course Mandel doesn't think it's a disaster. He's part of the sports industrial complex that's always looking for ways to maintain year-round interest in the sport he's covering and NIL and a constant stream of transfers just allows him to fill the airwaves/blogosphere with his takes. NFL built the model with pre-season, season, post-season, free agency, draft, OTAs cycle spread somewhat evenly throughout the year so they are always in the headlines. Other sports have tried to emulate that with some being more successful at it than others. College football has now joined in with its own version of free agency..

For the record, I enjoy sports. I'm not as ardent a fan as I used to be in my youth and I'm not going to spout the "love of money is the root of all evil" schtick, but when money gets involved, things are going to change. I've always been for college players getting some form of reimbursement beyond their scholarship for a variety of reasons (and I really believe the NCAA screwed the pooch by not making even a modest attempt to get ahead of things although the final result with the NIL was probably inevitable), but we are now truly in the Wild West where initial scholarship offers/acceptances mean next to nothing.

 

[PMWinSTP]

I would say the NCAA's poor communication about NIL rules -- or maybe it's enforcement -- has been a debacle (in addition to free transfers). I've heard Coyle and his guy in charge of NIL, not to mention Derek Burns of Dinkytown Athletes, say multiple times that NIL is not supposed to be for pay-to-play -- and that we're abiding by those rules. But nobody else seems to be. No it changed recently, but due to a court ruling, rather than the NCAA doing anything.

Requiring they sit a year would probably clear up a lot of the perceived lax enforcement. Would have to think a majority of the NIL collectives would be for it as well.

 

[MplsGopher]

Ding ding ding. Everyone wants to make NIL the boogeyman but it's the roster turnover that is a mess.

I'm fine with this.

Just so long as we acknowledge that the free chaos roster movement does provide opportunities that I think are fair to label as "NIL bad actors" to go in and push some of the roster movement (ie. tampering).

 

[MplsGopher]

There are federal judges opining restrictions on college player transfers violate the Sherman Antitrust Act of 1890. All it takes is someone to bring a lawsuit.

At what point judicial opinions on legality of league rules affecting a players right to pursue NIL $ make the sport impossible to operate is anyone’s guess. Apparently their hands are tied to make exceptions.

I've been told (reasoning: "because I said so") that IF you have a collective bargaining agreement in place with a players union, then this all magically dissolves into thin air with the snap of fingers.

So .... isn't that the obvious place that major college football needs to head towards, and the sooner the better??

 

[MplsGopher]

Of course Mandel doesn't think it's a disaster. He's part of the sports industrial complex that's always looking for ways to maintain year-round interest in the sport he's covering and NIL and a constant stream of transfers just allows him to fill the airwaves/blogosphere with his takes. NFL built the model with pre-season, season, post-season, free agency, draft, OTAs cycle spread somewhat evenly throughout the year so they are always in the headlines. Other sports have tried to emulate that with some being more successful at it than others. College football has now joined in with its own version of free agency..

For the record, I enjoy sports. I'm not as ardent a fan as I used to be in my youth and I'm not going to spout the "love of money is the root of all evil" schtick, but when money gets involved, things are going to change. I've always been for college players getting some form of reimbursement beyond their scholarship for a variety of reasons (and I really believe the NCAA screwed the pooch by not making even a modest attempt to get ahead of things although the final result with the NIL was probably inevitable), but we are now truly in the Wild West where initial scholarship offers/acceptances mean next to nothing.

Bolded is so correct.

They barely try to even hide it

 

[Pompous Elitist]

I've been told (reasoning: "because I said so") that IF you have a collective bargaining agreement in place with a players union, then this all magically dissolves into thin air with the snap of fingers.

So .... isn't that the obvious place that major college football needs to head towards, and the sooner the better??

Nobody except players, some fans, agents, attorneys, and chaos actors in the media want employment status. How in the world would that work, legally. You can’t say this athlete is an employee but that one isn’t. It doesn’t make sense. Sought after players earning more than tenured professors or maybe even college presidents. Title IX gnashing of teeth, “labor” strikes. The road to hell…

The mistake made in the past was not more elaborate media rights revenue sharing, rolling revenue back into the universities, rather than enabling athletic departments to run amok. Jealousy, greed has driven all of this. Idiot administrators, laughable coaches making millions, gold-plated toilets.

 

[MplsGopher]

Nobody except players, some fans, agents, attorneys, and chaos actors in the media want employment status. How in the world would that work, legally. You can’t say this athlete is an employee but that one isn’t. It doesn’t make sense. Sought after players earning more than tenured professors or maybe even college presidents. Title IX gnashing of teeth, “labor” strikes. The road to hell…

The mistake made in the past was not more elaborate media rights revenue sharing, rolling revenue back into the universities, rather than enabling athletic departments to run amok. Jealousy, greed has driven all of this. Idiot administrators, laughable coaches making millions, gold-plated toilets.

Well first of all, towards your "more than professors" comment .... lots of college athletics head coaches make more than professors already and have for a while. I don't see gnashing over that?


But anyway, getting at the meat of your post: there is a way to bypass just about everything you bring up here.

The employment and the player's union ... is at the level of the conference. Not the schools themselves.

I can think of many ways such a model is beneficial:
- no Title IX implications, because conferences are not schools or educational programs that receive funding from the federal government. If they choose to only employ football, men's bball and women's bball players, let's say ..... nothing. No T9 legal implications are valid.
- the TV money that eventually gets paid out to schools, comes first and foremost into their respective conferences. The TV deals are between TV networks and conferences. (The ones that matter, anyway, for the big bucks.) So some X% of that money can just be lopped right off the top and set aside for players. This could even incorporate smaller sports, if you consider that they tend to mainly (solely) appear on say Big Ten Network. At a proportional value.
- schools can totally wash their hands of the entire idea that they're employing student athletes. In fact, they can still do the old way of offering scholarships. It's really no different than how at lower levels (not FBS anymore, but probably at levels lower than that) a scholarship football player has a job over the summer. That's perfectly fine. Well, so too could a scholarship football player be an employee of the conference during the season.

The NCAA could completely bow out of this, as well. They could say "player employment, salaries, union, and NIL are now going to be entirely run and monitored by the conferences. We're out of that game."


Not seeing anywhere where anyone loses, in this model?? But feel free to poke holes in it.

 

[Pompous Elitist]

Well first of all, towards your "more than professors" comment .... lots of college athletics head coaches make more than professors already and have for a while. I don't see gnashing over that?

I’m sure I’m not the only one. Can’t prove it.

But anyway, getting at the meat of your post: there is a way to bypass just about everything you bring up here.

The employment and the player's union ... is at the level of the conference. Not the schools themselves.

I can think of many ways such a model is beneficial:
- no Title IX implications, because conferences are not schools or educational programs that receive funding from the federal government. If they choose to only employ football, men's bball and women's bball players, let's say ..... nothing. No T9 legal implications are valid.

The conferences structure is such that whatever media suit they bring in is hired by the school presidents. Not sure how they can divest themselves of what happens at the conference level when they sit at the tip of the organizational structure. If the conferences are dissolved and new entities take their place without any oversight from the school then they might have a leg to stand on. Not sure though, how the school can claim they aren’t the employers when they set the hours, so on. They will also still want the lions share of the media rights $. Very messy.

- the TV money that eventually gets paid out to schools, comes first and foremost into their respective conferences. The TV deals are between TV networks and conferences. (The ones that matter, anyway, for the big bucks.) So some X% of that money can just be lopped right off the top and set aside for players. This could even incorporate smaller sports, if you consider that they tend to mainly (solely) appear on say Big Ten Network. At a proportional value.

The players “could” organize and demand the money from the conferences or refuse to play. Scab players take their schollies? I don’t know. Maybe. Like Reagan and the ATCs. We’d all still watch for we are entertained.

- schools can totally wash their hands of the entire idea that they're employing student athletes. In fact, they can still do the old way of offering scholarships. It's really no different than how at lower levels (not FBS anymore, but probably at levels lower than that) a scholarship football player has a job over the summer. That's perfectly fine. Well, so too could a scholarship football player be an employee of the conference during the season.

What legal mechanism, them would keep Ohio State from going out and hiring the best players? If they are reclassified as employees. Antitrust, and so on.

The NCAA could completely bow out of this, as well. They could say "player employment, salaries, union, and NIL are now going to be entirely run and monitored by the conferences. We're out of that game."

They’re already out of the game; but still collecting paychecks.

Not seeing anywhere where anyone loses, in this model?? But feel free to poke holes in it.

When the conferences start the bidding wars for players it’s a race to the bottom. Athletic departments absolutely gutted. I can imagine a lot of collateral damage and probably some I can’t imagine. That’s the nature of these things.