Playing Time / Based on BC Game

[BarnBurner]

It is clear to me that Ihnen, Mash, and Tre all need to play more minutes. Ihnen, other than the 2 FT misses, was excellent tonight. He got a key tip/rebound off the rim late.

Mash has "it". Smart, well taught. Appears calm and confident. I am sure he will have Fr moments, however he is a gift to watch - right now.

Tre played well. I think he needs to take Gabe's minutes, for the most part. Gabe simply can't make shots, and, from my untrained eye, does not appear to be a lockdown defender as many here suggest. Seems like a great kid, super team mate.

 

[UpAndUnder43]

This is pretty spot on. All 3 provide something that Gabe and Curry are not providing.
I agree with the announcer that said Carr needs to play off the ball some. Mashburn (and Gach) allow that to happen.

 

[EG#9]

I am still going to defend Gabe a bit, but agree with your post. The elementary school traveling vioations from Gabe in the first half were tough to watch, he's clearly in his own head on the offensive end now. Gabe does a lot of the fundamentals well on a team full of guys who don't (Brandon Johnson being another exception): he's most likely to be in the right position for help D, he's most likely to actually pass the ball to the open guy on the high screen action, he's willing to take charges, he might be the least likely guy on the team to commit a bad foul, etc, etc.

I could be biased because i've never been a fan of Williams game, but I'd stick with Gabe over him. Ihen and Mashburn Jr were great tonight. It was interesting to see Pitino trust Ihnen in the late game situations after seemingly being unwilling to play him at times against lesser competition just a few days ago.

 

[GopherCountry]

Maybe I’m splitting hairs (or tenths of a second) but Amir set up Gabe nicely and got Gabe the ball in rhythm whereas Carr dribbles until he is stuck and fires a pass to Gabe instead of making the pass immediately. Gabe just needs to find his rhythm.

 

[bga1]

Pitino put in a little wrinkle with Ihnen tonight...worked him into the high post a little where he looked good and moved the ball from there. I could see a little high low with him and Robbins.

 

[HOOP DREAMS]

I was a big Curry fan and still root for the kid.. but he doesn’t bring much to the table... I hope he’ll get better as the year goes on, but I’m not expecting much out of him.

 

[Gopherfan84]

It is clear to me that Ihnen, Mash, and Tre all need to play more minutes. Ihnen, other than the 2 FT misses, was excellent tonight. He got a key tip/rebound off the rim late.

Mash has "it". Smart, well taught. Appears calm and confident. I am sure he will have Fr moments, however he is a gift to watch - right now.

Tre played well. I think he needs to take Gabe's minutes, for the most part. Gabe simply can't make shots, and, from my untrained eye, does not appear to be a lockdown defender as many here suggest. Seems like a great kid, super team mate.

Those three played well last night and I don't disagree that they need to be a part of our rotation. Mash will be a nice player and I am really high on him as well. I'd like to see Pitino use him to hold Carr accountable too when he goes rouge like he did last night. Carr was not defending and tried to do everything himself. Mash can and should step in for him when that happens.

As far as Gabe, I think you are fair to call for some minute reductions until his shooting improves, which it will at some point. He may not be a "lockdown" defender as I don't know of many that exist much anymore considering how skilled and good players are and how the game is called, but he is our best defender and it's not really that close. Teams have been still respecting his shot and that creates driving lanes. This will continue to change however if Gabe continues to shoot the way he has. Tre does some wonderful things and he's gotten better. I think it's fair to reduce Gabe's minutes, but he still needs to be on the floor for 20-25 minutes at this time. Again, once teams help off him willingly, then we can look at other options for more time reduction in my opinion.

Ihnen is an odd case too me. I love his potential and I like his fit with this roster. That being said, until last night in the second half, he's been quite soft defensively and rebounding. I'm assuming Pitino playing Jarvis over him was a sign to Ihnen to tell him those things are priorities. Glad to see him come up with some big rebounds last night and I hope he continues to grow. He can be a very important piece for this year and in the future years.

 

[tmvander]

Ihnen should be getting almost all of Omersa and Curry's minutes. My one concern with Ihnen was defense and rebounding but Omersa has looked bad on defense and Curry is so slow and can't jump. Ihnen will help space the floor better and can even make shots.

Williams looked really good. At this point what he may give up to Gabe in defensive awareness can easily be made up with not missing every shot. He played hard and hustled for some rebounds.

Mashburn looked great all around. He's still a little timid in certain situations but it was his 5th game. The kid has a great looking future.

 

[Zeppelin Gopher]

People are totally overlooking Gabe's excellent team defense (and not for the first time). His shot will come around.

Curry was painful to watch last night, you have to feel bad for the kid. But he can't jump and is incredibly slow post injuries. Maybe he'll find his legs after being out for so long but this might be the end for him sadly.

 

[Gopherbbdude]

People are totally overlooking Gabe's excellent team defense (and not for the first time). His shot will come around.

Curry was painful to watch last night, you have to feel bad for the kid. But he can't jump and is incredibly slow post injuries. Maybe he'll find his legs after being out for so long but this might be the end for him sadly.

Totally agree with both points.
Curry looks frustrated and really hurt the team tonight. Ball watching was so obvious, and his lack speed and ups is painful. I really like him has a team mate but..... I hope he finds his legs, we could really use him.

 

[tmvander]

People are totally overlooking Gabe's excellent team defense (and not for the first time). His shot will come around.

Curry was painful to watch last night, you have to feel bad for the kid. But he can't jump and is incredibly slow post injuries. Maybe he'll find his legs after being out for so long but this might be the end for him sadly.

Curry looks like the old man playing pick up ball at open gym with the young kids. He has some smooth old man moves, but at the end of the day he can't keep up.

 

[Gopherfan84]

Curry looks like the old man playing pick up ball at open gym with the young kids. He has some smooth old man moves, but at the end of the day he can't keep up.

Just heartbreaking too. He was an energy guy and springy as a freshman. I'm still holding out hope with the weight loss that he can recover some and still bring some value.

 

[GopherPlaya]

Maybe I’m splitting hairs (or tenths of a second) but Amir set up Gabe nicely and got Gabe the ball in rhythm whereas Carr dribbles until he is stuck and fires a pass to Gabe instead of making the pass immediately. Gabe just needs to find his rhythm.

I fully agree with this and it is why Gabe cant get into rhythm and wont. Pitino lives and dies with Carr and Carr is a score 1st PG who over dribbles. I think they should let Gach play a point forward role more and let Carr play off ball just to add more ball and player movement to the offense

 

[tmvander]

Just heartbreaking too. He was an energy guy and springy as a freshman. I'm still holding out hope with the weight loss that he can recover some and still bring some value.

I mean I think he can provide decent minutes when he's in there but he shouldn't be in there long. He isn't a guy you can expect 20 great minutes out of. I think he can come in for 2-3 minute stretches and maybe make a basket and just give someone else a breather. He's smart so won't make tons of mistakes.

 

[Otis]

Maybe I’m splitting hairs (or tenths of a second) but Amir set up Gabe nicely and got Gabe the ball in rhythm whereas Carr dribbles until he is stuck and fires a pass to Gabe instead of making the pass immediately. Gabe just needs to find his rhythm.

This is complete BS.

The first half the Gophers were doing quite a bit of dribble drive penetration and kicking out for wide open looks! The kind reminiscent of Top Gun, "It Doesn't Get any Better Than That!" Maybe all those passes weren't going to Gabe and several of the shots were waved off because of traveling calls but they were definitely there.

 

[BarnBurner]

Those three played well last night and I don't disagree that they need to be a part of our rotation. Mash will be a nice player and I am really high on him as well. I'd like to see Pitino use him to hold Carr accountable too when he goes rouge like he did last night. Carr was not defending and tried to do everything himself. Mash can and should step in for him when that happens.

As far as Gabe, I think you are fair to call for some minute reductions until his shooting improves, which it will at some point. He may not be a "lockdown" defender as I don't know of many that exist much anymore considering how skilled and good players are and how the game is called, but he is our best defender and it's not really that close. Teams have been still respecting his shot and that creates driving lanes. This will continue to change however if Gabe continues to shoot the way he has. Tre does some wonderful things and he's gotten better. I think it's fair to reduce Gabe's minutes, but he still needs to be on the floor for 20-25 minutes at this time. Again, once teams help off him willingly, then we can look at other options for more time reduction in my opinion.

Ihnen is an odd case too me. I love his potential and I like his fit with this roster. That being said, until last night in the second half, he's been quite soft defensively and rebounding. I'm assuming Pitino playing Jarvis over him was a sign to Ihnen to tell him those things are priorities. Glad to see him come up with some big rebounds last night and I hope he continues to grow. He can be a very important piece for this year and in the future years.

Ihnen and Tre have played well before last night, imo. They both had a level of success last season, for Fr. Each of them needs more pt.

Carr needs to pass the ball more frequently, and that is a reflection on RP. "Taking the air out of the ball" ended in garbage both times last night. Yes, it has worked before and will work again. Frankly, I hate it. It allows the defense to rest 15-20 seconds, with no thought of having to guard anyone. Move the damn ball!

How long can you continue to allow Gabe to shoot this way? I'm over it. And, I think you should look at Gach as the best defender. No?

 

[Chico Gopher]

I mean I think he can provide decent minutes when he's in there but he shouldn't be in there long. He isn't a guy you can expect 20 great minutes out of. I think he can come in for 2-3 minute stretches and maybe make a basket and just give someone else a breather. He's smart so won't make tons of mistakes.

Was thinking of what my expectations of Curry were before the season started, as opposed to my hopes. So far, I think he has played about to expectations, considering his injuries and time off. My hopes were that he'd be able to give us 10-12 solid minutes of 4-6 points, 3 rebounds and solid team defense around the hoop. Maybe he eventually will, but maybe we're seeing everything he has left.

 

[Gopherfan84]

Ihnen and Tre have played well before last night, imo. They both had a level of success last season, for Fr. Each of them needs more pt.

Gabe had a higher level of success his freshman year than both of them combined if we are using the past j/k. Tre is still out of control and Ihnen is soft at times, but they both continue to get better. I'm not arguing that they both should get some more PT and I'm even fine with Gabe getting some minutes reduction. I think we remember their "good points" when we are so focused on a struggling starter and forget their errors too. For example, Tre is averaging 1.5 TO per game in 12 mpg while Gabe is averaging 1.4 in 29 mpg.

Carr needs to pass the ball more frequently, and that is a reflection on RP. "Taking the air out of the ball" ended in garbage both times last night. Yes, it has worked before and will work again. Frankly, I hate it. It allows the defense to rest 15-20 seconds, with no thought of having to guard anyone. Move the damn ball!

I think the offense from an efficiency standpoint is fine. I don't like it and find it boring like you though. You are right about Carr's not passing being a reflection of RP. It's what he wants. I understand the premise and don't disagree with finding mismatches and getting your best player opportunities, but it's tough to watch. You bring up a good point on that we may allow the other teams D some rest. Maybe increase the push on initial transition?

How long can you continue to allow Gabe to shoot this way? I'm over it. And, I think you should look at Gach as the best defender. No?

Not forever especially if Tre and Mash continue to improve. At some point his shots/pt needs to be reduced. Gach as the best defender is laughable. Most capable of being our best? Sure, but he gets lost off the ball, beat off the dribble way too often, and takes some unnecessary gambles still. All can be fixed and he truly could be the best defender in the B1G if he stays engaged.

 

[BarnBurner]

Gabe had a higher level of success his freshman year than both of them combined if we are using the past j/k. Tre is still out of control and Ihnen is soft at times, but they both continue to get better. I'm not arguing that they both should get some more PT and I'm even fine with Gabe getting some minutes reduction. I think we remember their "good points" when we are so focused on a struggling starter and forget their errors too. For example, Tre is averaging 1.5 TO per game in 12 mpg while Gabe is averaging 1.4 in 29 mpg.


I think the offense from an efficiency standpoint is fine. I don't like it and find it boring like you though. You are right about Carr's not passing being a reflection of RP. It's what he wants. I understand the premise and don't disagree with finding mismatches and getting your best player opportunities, but it's tough to watch. You bring up a good point on that we may allow the other teams D some rest. Maybe increase the push on initial transition?



Not forever especially if Tre and Mash continue to improve. At some point his shots/pt needs to be reduced. Gach as the best defender is laughable. Most capable of being our best? Sure, but he gets lost off the ball, beat off the dribble way too often, and takes some unnecessary gambles still. All can be fixed and he truly could be the best defender in the B1G if he stays engaged.

Laughable? Gabe gets beaten regularly, last night was no exception. Tre and Mach need more PT, as does Ihnen. If the three of them had the minutes Gabe has had.........

 

[Otis]

Manderson1984, dude, did you go to HS with Gabe or something? Distant relative?

You really like to defend him and his play is growing to be ever more indefensible.

The only way to wake/shake him out of his slump is to take away his "FREE PASS" and stick him on the bench. I know he's a good kid and puts it all out and works hard but Pitino and the Gophers need to win! They need more production from the SG spot and there are other players who just might be able to provide it.

Who wouldn't want to see:
Carr
Gach
Ihnen/Williams/Mashburn

As the backcourt starters against UMKC? What the hell is Pitino waiting for? Christmas? Well, that would be the Illinois game.

 

[Gopherfan84]

Laughable? Gabe gets beaten regularly, last night was no exception. Tre and Mach need more PT, as does Ihnen. If the three of them had the minutes Gabe has had.........

We'd be worse defensively and have more turnovers, but would've had more a few more three pointers made? Consider Gabe shot 20 three's this year. Say those guys made 8 of them compared to the 2 Gabe made. We are talking about 12 points more. Gabe's defense and lack of turnovers (especially with Tre) still makes him the + player.

 

[Otis]

We'd be worse defensively and have more turnovers, but would've had more a few more three pointers made? Consider Gabe shot 20 three's this year. Say those guys made 8 of them compared to the 2 Gabe made. We are talking about 12 points more. Gabe's defense and lack of turnovers (especially with Tre) still makes him the + player.

You need to watch Gabe's defense closer. He ain't exactly "Glove" or "Worm" like.

 

[Bayfieldgopher]

I've been calling for more PT from Williams and Mash. It finally happened last eve. although just 28 minutes between them. The guys jelled with them on the floor during the comeback in the second half. Both of them provide a lot of energy and can do a lot of things.

I am not an Ihnen fan although he seemed more involved against BC. Maybe that will continue. His D looked OK and he was willing to rebound. He attempted to take it to the hoop a few times but clearly lacks the confidence to finish or even take a pull up J. But at least he tried.

It will be interesting to see who gets Johnson's minutes. It will likely be Ihnen and agree with others that the game has passed by Curry and Omersa is limited merely to giving Robbins a breather.

Will RP give Williams some of Gabe's minutes? I am not giving up on Gabe but his performance thus far does not warrant all the minutes he has had.

I want to see more of Mash/Carr/Gach and with some Williams/Ihnen give Carr some different options and pre-set plays to free him up on the wing. Pre-set plays? I doubt that RP will go there.

 

[Gopherfan84]

Manderson1984, dude, did you go to HS with Gabe or something? Distant relative?

You really like to defend him and his play is growing to be ever more indefensible.

The only way to wake/shake him out of his slump is to take away his "FREE PASS" and stick him on the bench. I know he's a good kid and puts it all out and works hard but Pitino and the Gophers need to win! They need more production from the SG spot and there are other players who just might be able to provide it.

Who wouldn't want to see:
Carr
Gach
Ihnen/Williams/Mashburn

As the backcourt starters against UMKC? What the hell is Pitino waiting for? Christmas? Well, that would be the Illinois game.

No relation and never met him. Just a gopher fan who appreciates defense and little things that help teams win that don't always get recognized. I've said he can get less minutes, but the idea he's not good or valuable is wrong especially with the make up of this team. Now like I also mentioned, if Tre gets more under control and Mash continues to grow while Gabe continues to shoot this poorly we can have a different conversation. Currently him playing is giving this team the best chance to win imo. That's all.

 

[Gopherfan84]

You need to watch Gabe's defense closer. He ain't exactly "Glove" or "Worm" like.

Find one time where I said he was a lockdown defender. In fact I've stated numerous times he's not. I have said he is our best wing defender. Trust me I watch our defense very closely, it's my biggest critique of RP and why I don't think we win more. I also watch other defenses and used to coach basketball so I'll gladly trust my judgement here.

 

[Tucker32]

It is clear to me that Ihnen, Mash, and Tre all need to play more minutes. Ihnen, other than the 2 FT misses, was excellent tonight. He got a key tip/rebound off the rim late.

Mash has "it". Smart, well taught. Appears calm and confident. I am sure he will have Fr moments, however he is a gift to watch - right now.

Tre played well. I think he needs to take Gabe's minutes, for the most part. Gabe simply can't make shots, and, from my untrained eye, does not appear to be a lockdown defender as many here suggest. Seems like a great kid, super team mate.

Agreed on all, except that Tre take Gabe’s minutes, but he needs more of them. I hen can do a lot and just needs more time on the floor. He makes defensive mistakes, but will never work through those if he doesn’t get minutes. Offers more than any Curry, Johnson, etc

 

[BarnBurner]

No relation and never met him. Just a gopher fan who appreciates defense and little things that help teams win that don't always get recognized. I've said he can get less minutes, but the idea he's not good or valuable is wrong especially with the make up of this team. Now like I also mentioned, if Tre gets more under control and Mash continues to grow while Gabe continues to shoot this poorly we can have a different conversation. Currently him playing is giving this team the best chance to win imo. That's all.

Please dont think you are the Lone Ranger in appreciating great defense. It does seem you give Gabe a lot of credit for intangibles. Intangibles that have not resulted in winning at a good clip. His inability to shoot significantly decreases the intangibles and defense he brings. Good grief, it has gotten to the point of being sad - watching the bricklaying. His teammates will only play along so far, imo, before becoming pissed. IMO, if he was not a local kid, RP would have a much, much shorter leash.

 

[Tucker32]

Those three played well last night and I don't disagree that they need to be a part of our rotation. Mash will be a nice player and I am really high on him as well. I'd like to see Pitino use him to hold Carr accountable too when he goes rouge like he did last night. Carr was not defending and tried to do everything himself. Mash can and should step in for him when that happens.

As far as Gabe, I think you are fair to call for some minute reductions until his shooting improves, which it will at some point. He may not be a "lockdown" defender as I don't know of many that exist much anymore considering how skilled and good players are and how the game is called, but he is our best defender and it's not really that close. Teams have been still respecting his shot and that creates driving lanes. This will continue to change however if Gabe continues to shoot the way he has. Tre does some wonderful things and he's gotten better. I think it's fair to reduce Gabe's minutes, but he still needs to be on the floor for 20-25 minutes at this time. Again, once teams help off him willingly, then we can look at other options for more time reduction in my opinion.

Ihnen is an odd case too me. I love his potential and I like his fit with this roster. That being said, until last night in the second half, he's been quite soft defensively and rebounding. I'm assuming Pitino playing Jarvis over him was a sign to Ihnen to tell him those things are priorities. Glad to see him come up with some big rebounds last night and I hope he continues to grow. He can be a very important piece for this year and in the future years.

Agree that Ihnen needs to grow on defense and rebounding, and he showed progress last night. Omersa offers nothing but fouls right now though, so playing him ahead of Ihnen makes no sense. Ihnen has to learn how to play team defense, and while some of that happens in practice you have to get minutes on the floor as well.

Totally agree on Mashburn and Carr. Care so good, butcan get so selfish.I think his play impacts Gabe because he rarely gets the ball to Gabe in any kind of flow. The ball moves so much more when Mashburn in there, and it’s ok to hold Carr accountable - he’ll only get better if Pitino does that.

 

[Otis]

No relation and never met him. Just a gopher fan who appreciates defense and little things that help teams win that don't always get recognized. I've said he can get less minutes, but the idea he's not good or valuable is wrong especially with the make up of this team. Now like I also mentioned, if Tre gets more under control and Mash continues to grow while Gabe continues to shoot this poorly we can have a different conversation. Currently him playing is giving this team the best chance to win imo. That's all.

So, what your saying is, Gabe is providing John Thomas, Richard Coffey or Johnson level play to the team which makes him irreplaceable.

Sorry, but Gabe doesn't even come close to reaching the kind of skin your knees intangibles to make him irreplaceable those guys offered.

He's not a rebounder.
He doesn't get a lot of steals.
He doesn't make any assists. (even when he has the ball. which of course is rare)
He doesn't stand out as a Dusty Rychart "I'm going to sacrifice myself to do whatever I can to help the team" type.
He has no emotion and adds no fire to the atmosphere at all.

I hear what your saying, but I don't see it.

He adds to the team when he hits daggers and cuts the heart out of the other team. This is his one best asset. Nailing it from deep and running back down court like it was nothing. Almost Ray Allen like, "Yeah, I just did that and now I'm chewing some gum." God, do I miss that!

And he can't do it right now.

 

[LakerFan]

Who wouldn't want to see:
Carr
Gach
Ihnen/Williams/Mashburn

Agreed but i think best lineups move inhen/Williams to the 4 to keep our other bigs off the floor and use gabe to spell carr/Gach/mashburn backcourt

The second half started disasterous last night trying to keep two bigs on the floor, the 9 to 0 run and most of the rest of the half were one big only lineups