PJ Fleck's FOOTBALL thread

Donate To GopherHole
minibeaver said:
For some reason I thought Croft was a dual-threat guy. I know media guys that go to practice have stated they feel both Croft and Green were over a year away from being able to be productive, and this was last year. Also, I wonder where Rhoda fits into this. I may be the only one, but I feel like there was a reason he was asked to come back, more than just a 'come compete for a spot' type thing.
Click to expand...

At the risk of starting a pissing match between a few certain people on here(JG and DPO come to mind), he is listed as a Dual-Threat on 247. To me he just doesn't look the part of a dual threat because he is a little thin to be taking the type punishment in the run game that Mitch took. Also, from watching his senior year highlight tape, most of it was him making throws. There were some designed runs for him on the video, but they weren't ever of him getting his shoulders square in the hole and fighting for extra yards. They were all counter or misdirection action with him running through pretty huge holes.
 

I too have thought of Croft as more of a pocket passer that is athletic enough to avoid some sacks and scramble when he must/should. I have heard from multiple sources that he throws a great ball, but does struggle with consistency. My hope is he will be improving on that as he gets older (and is now older). I think a change it offensive style could help him. I also read very little into his limited action as a tFR due to the situations he was thrown in.
He is my bet to be our starter - partially because I am a Demry fan, partially because I don't want a Freshman to be our best option on this roster, partially because I like his skill set more than others, and partially as I would have little hope for the season if Rhoda gets the nod.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

From what I've read of Fleck's offense, it sounds like they used a lot of shorter timing routes. I read somewhere the whole point of the offense is to create mismatches and get playmakers in space with a chance to make a play - i.e. throw an 8-yard pass and run another 10 yards downfield.

So, If that is correct, it calls for a QB who can make quick reads and deliver a short, accurate pass. Doesn't necessarily have to have the world's strongest arm or be a great runner.

Who does that sound like on the roster? I have to think the coaches wanted Rhoda back for a reason. Wouldn't be shocked if Rhoda starts the 1st game of the season.
 

It sounds like a ball control offense eating up clock, dink and dunk short to intermediate passing balanced with running type of offense.

The whole premise is to move the chain, tire up the opposing defenses, and then hit the opponents with long bombs or runs in the second half. I don't know how this will wash in the B1G with teams that are deep like Michigan and tOSU.

As far as the QB situation, I don't know the level of competition Croft and Morgan faced in HS. Coming into the B1G, suddenly you are faced with more athleticism, strength, and speed. Green coming from a football rich Texas HS competition doesn't guarantee anything. Rhoda to a certain extend have some proven ability as a practice player of the year with at least a complete B1G game. McLaurin has completed eight games in JC against unknown level opponents as the no. 5 rated JC QB. Ray Estes' HS team won a state championship going 14-0 (rated the no. 31 prospect in Illinois, and the no. 94 athlete in the nation). Mark Williams let his HS team in Alabama to a 13-1 record, and 6-0 in region play.

So, it is truly a wide open competition. SON, you have a point for PJF bringing Rhoda back who may end up starting at least the first game.
 

minibeaver said:
I'll try. Admittedly, I'm sure their are people here that have a lot more knowledge about it than I do.

Please correct me if I'm wrong:
He runs more of a pro-style type system. QB'S will not be going on designed runs like they used to, but will be expected to diagnose defenses better, and go through progressions to find the open guy. Maybe less deep balls? But more emphasis on the short and intermediate passing games. This stuff will still be based off of a solid run game. I'd imagine-like years past- if our run game is shut down this year we'll be in for a rough day. As Fleck's QB'S have more time to mature, I would suspect that he expects them to be able to carry the team a little more than before, and maybe what we have grown accustomed to?

OK I tried, take it easy on me guys.

Edit: didn't see Hungan's. His may be better... ; )
Click to expand...

That's the impression I got, too: short passing game, with emphasis on run after catch, plus a good running game. Occasional longer pass to loosen up the d.
 


Great Plains Gopher said:
That's the impression I got, too: short passing game, with emphasis on run after catch, plus a good running game. Occasional longer pass to loosen up the d.
Click to expand...

I Concur. So, as far as personnel to fit this... short range targets? The TE's LINGEN and WOZNIAK I think are the two that come to mind, should be fine w the running game (duh) but the million dollar question is that occasional down the field threat. Rashad Still I think, Tyler Johnson maybe? I'd Love to see The Mpls kid show out. Seth Green at qb? Huh? Anyone?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

JTsolo612 said:
I Concur. So, as far as personnel to fit this... short range targets? The TE's LINGEN and WOZNIAK I think are the two that come to mind, should be fine w the running game (duh) but the million dollar question is that occasional down the field threat. Rashad Still I think, Tyler Johnson maybe? I'd Love to see The Mpls kid show out. Seth Green at qb? Huh? Anyone?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

I think our best option for an inexperienced QB (that's pretty much all we have on the roster) is to have a healthy Lingen back. I'm a little worried about his ability to stay healthy, but if he can that would be huge. If we can get someone else to step up in that role that would be nice too. Im excited to see Johnson this year as well. I'm assuming he's put on some weight, added some strength.
I always figured Johnson would be more of a possession reciever, I guess because of his size. In the practice video, Fleck was singing Still's praises (it was Still right?) That would be great if he could step up this year.


It will be nice to have our RB'S back again, my only concern is the line. New scheme, different kids having to step up, and being thin.

How's everyone feeling about the O-Line this year? Cautious optimism? Concerned?
 

minibeaver said:
How's everyone feeling about the O-Line this year? Cautious optimism? Concerned?
Click to expand...

I think the OL is more of a Question mark than the QB position. Between graduations, transfers and people lost to injury, the OL is going to be thin. Any significant injuries to one of the starters, and the Gophers will be running Sophs and maybe even FR out there to play OL - not a typical formula for success in the B1G. Now, there are ways to scheme around a shaky line - ask the Vikings - go with quick passes, and dump-offs to the RB's.

now IF one or two of the younger linemen show a lot of progress, and are capable of playing significant snaps, that can change the situation. But until we see what happens in the non-conf games, the line is my biggest concern.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
From what I've read of Fleck's offense, it sounds like they used a lot of shorter timing routes. I read somewhere the whole point of the offense is to create mismatches and get playmakers in space with a chance to make a play - i.e. throw an 8-yard pass and run another 10 yards downfield.

So, If that is correct, it calls for a QB who can make quick reads and deliver a short, accurate pass. Doesn't necessarily have to have the world's strongest arm or be a great runner.

Who does that sound like on the roster? I have to think the coaches wanted Rhoda back for a reason. Wouldn't be shocked if Rhoda starts the 1st game of the season.
Click to expand...

Correct. I would be extremely surprised if Fleck alters his offense much and have QB designed runs. He has what he needs for QBs to make his O go.
 



It sounds like Fleck is heavy into run pass option or packaged plays which is pretty exciting. Defenses are evolving to better deal with them but with a smart and accurate QB the offense should be lightyears ahead of recent iterations. Ideally, one would still want a very athletic QB for the keeper options in the RPO packages but if you have to choose quick reads and decisive vs fast but slow-witted you take the former. Some have said Fleck runs a slow tempo offense which is interesting considering most spread teams try to use high tempo to make the defense even more stressed. Thoughts?

Here is a nice package of videos with some of the plays.

https://prostylespreadoffense.com/2017/02/17/run-pass-option-p-j-flecks-offense/
 

short ornery norwegian said:
I think the OL is more of a Question mark than the QB position. Between graduations, transfers and people lost to injury, the OL is going to be thin. Any significant injuries to one of the starters, and the Gophers will be running Sophs and maybe even FR out there to play OL - not a typical formula for success in the B1G. Now, there are ways to scheme around a shaky line - ask the Vikings - go with quick passes, and dump-offs to the RB's.

now IF one or two of the younger linemen show a lot of progress, and are capable of playing significant snaps, that can change the situation. But until we see what happens in the non-conf games, the line is my biggest concern.
Click to expand...

I'm kind of excited to see what young guys step up on the line this year. I remember us recruiting some guys over the last couple years that got a lot of attention, it's time to see them step up.
 

Pompous Elitist said:
It sounds like Fleck is heavy into run pass option or packaged plays which is pretty exciting. Defenses are evolving to better deal with them but with a smart and accurate QB the offense should be lightyears ahead of recent iterations. Ideally, one would still want a very athletic QB for the keeper options in the RPO packages but if you have to choose quick reads and decisive vs fast but slow-witted you take the former. Some have said Fleck runs a slow tempo offense which is interesting considering most spread teams try to use high tempo to make the defense even more stressed. Thoughts?

Here is a nice package of videos with some of the plays.

https://prostylespreadoffense.com/2017/02/17/run-pass-option-p-j-flecks-offense/
Click to expand...

Good info. So my concern is this: who is our Corey Davis? They make it sound like he was the reason it all worked. We probably don't have a guy like that on the roster this year, so where does that leave us? Less YAC, WR'S with little separation, making for a tight window for our inexperienced QB to throw in to.

I do think the pass game will be more creative, which could help with separation issues. TJ showed promise last year as a freshman. Maybe he can be that dynamic WR?
 

Will be interesting to see who emerges as the Corey Davis type receiver. I think there is one in the 15 we have. Carter, Johnson or Still could be that guy. Or maybe we don't have one guy who can be like that and instead we have 3 or 4 who can combine to do the things that Davis did for Western. Since Davis didn't run at the combine, I wonder if he has great speed. If not, then our guys who weren't able to get separation in the previous offenses, will be helped out by the design of this offense.
On a side note, in that second video of the slant to Davis, the play should have been flagged for ineligible lineman downfield as one was blocking a LB well past the LOS when the throw was made and a second was on his way. With Run Pass options, I can see that penalty being a problem from time to time.
 



Melvin Holland Jr.

The lineman was probably right at the 3 yard limit in that video but yes many coaches have tried to change illegal man downfield to 1 vs 3 yards past the LOS. It failed to pass in 2016 despite much bellyaching from Satan et al. Spread coaches defend the 3 yard rule because it gives them a huge advantage. One would think coaches would instead worry more about the constant illegal holding of defensive lineman closing in for sacks as a decided tactical advantage for offenses. Enforcing that rule (as written instead of cough "interpreted") would certainly change the complexion of the game! Anyway, I'm glad PJ is taking advantage of the loophole for as long as it exists.
 


Pompous Elitist said:
It sounds like Fleck is heavy into run pass option or packaged plays which is pretty exciting. Defenses are evolving to better deal with them but with a smart and accurate QB the offense should be lightyears ahead of recent iterations. Ideally, one would still want a very athletic QB for the keeper options in the RPO packages but if you have to choose quick reads and decisive vs fast but slow-witted you take the former. Some have said Fleck runs a slow tempo offense which is interesting considering most spread teams try to use high tempo to make the defense even more stressed. Thoughts?

Here is a nice package of videos with some of the plays.

https://prostylespreadoffense.com/2017/02/17/run-pass-option-p-j-flecks-offense/
Click to expand...

He runs a pretty straightforward balanced offense but uses the spread look and motion to expose the defense and give the QB easy reads...so a bit of a smokescreen to help the QB.
 


By his own admission Fleck does very little with Xs and Os. He's the Motivator. His coordinators at WMU had a lot of autonomy.

Ciarrocca (OC) did a very good job of mixing run and pass. While we were usually in a Shotgun 1-Back formation, the H-Back was vital to our success in run game, much like a FB.
 

hungan1 said:
Let's get a National Championship out of him, so maybe five or six years?
Click to expand...
I'm not believing this is realistic only based on the last 50 yrs or so. If they could win a slice of the Big Ten one year, even the West, maybe a Rose with it. If that took 3 or 7, I'd be content if he left, as well. However, doing so may be so rewarding that he would stay. He and Pitino can own this town.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
 

principalguy said:
I'm not believing this is realistic only based on the last 50 yrs or so. If they could win a slice of the Big Ten one year, even the West, maybe a Rose with it. If that took 3 or 7, I'd be content if he left, as well. However, doing so may be so rewarding that he would stay. He and Pitino can own this town.
Click to expand...

As I posted on another thread Fleck has said his ultimate goal is to win a Super Bowl.

So he'll stay at The U until he gets a NFL job, moves to a higher profile P5 that will better help him get a NFL job, or is fired.
 

Broncos181973 said:
As I posted on another thread Fleck has said his ultimate goal is to win a Super Bowl.

So he'll stay at The U until he gets a NFL job, moves to a higher profile P5 that will better help him get a NFL job, or is fired.
Click to expand...

And where did he say he wants to win a Super Bowl?
 

principalguy said:
I'm not believing this is realistic only based on the last 50 yrs or so. If they could win a slice of the Big Ten one year, even the West, maybe a Rose with it. If that took 3 or 7, I'd be content if he left, as well. However, doing so may be so rewarding that he would stay. He and Pitino can own this town.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Should have a very good possibility at winning the West in 2019 and thus a chance at the Rose Bowl. Starts this year by building on last year's record.
 

You must log in or register to reply here.



Top Bottom