PJ Fleck on Sports Huddle 8-19-18

[GopherWeatherGuy]

I do believe ZA will get a scholarship. I'm not worried about that. What seems unfair to me, rightly or wrongly (probably the latter, I admit), is that he doesn't have one starting in fall camp.

This is the part that worries me: some NCAA schools (specifically the P5 + Notre Dame) voted to require that their scholarships be guaranteed for as long as the athlete is eligible and on the team. In other words, a coach can't discontinue the scholarship for athletic related reasons. He can't "cut" a players scholarship for poor athletic performance. And this is absolutely correct in my opinion (I'm a big advocate for player rights). BUT, a loophole in this is if the player doesn't receive a scholarship in his/her freshman year. Then the rules revert back to the old style "renew the scholarships every year".

In my opinion, ZA has absolutely earned the right to have a scholarship in his freshman year and receive this protection. I think it would be absolutely terrible if Fleck was trying to game this system to avoid having to give ZA one in his freshman year, so that he could "cut" his scholarship later on if a better QB prospect arrives. I really hope that isn't the case. And I hope that if ZA gets the scholarship starting in Winter 2019 term that the protection still applies.

I think you're really grasping for straws here. If Zack's priority was to be on scholarship, he wouldn't be here. Even with a number of other P5 scholarship opportunities, Zack still chose to come here for a number of other reasons. You're not going to choose that option, then feel slighted or 'gamed' by the head coach when you don't receive a scholarship before game one of your true Freshman year.

 

[grumps]

I do believe ZA will get a scholarship. I'm not worried about that. What seems unfair to me, rightly or wrongly (probably the latter, I admit), is that he doesn't have one starting in fall camp.

This is the part that worries me: some NCAA schools (specifically the P5 + Notre Dame) voted to require that their scholarships be guaranteed for as long as the athlete is eligible and on the team. In other words, a coach can't discontinue the scholarship for athletic related reasons. He can't "cut" a players scholarship for poor athletic performance. And this is absolutely correct in my opinion (I'm a big advocate for player rights). BUT, a loophole in this is if the player doesn't receive a scholarship in his/her freshman year. Then the rules revert back to the old style "renew the scholarships every year".

In my opinion, ZA has absolutely earned the right to have a scholarship in his freshman year and receive this protection. I think it would be absolutely terrible if Fleck was trying to game this system to avoid having to give ZA one in his freshman year, so that he could "cut" his scholarship later on if a better QB prospect arrives. I really hope that isn't the case. And I hope that if ZA gets the scholarship starting in Winter 2019 term that the protection still applies.

You are throwing out a hypothetical situation here.
I'd say an extremely unlikely scenario.


Also, I believe the rule is you can't take a scholarship away. They are 4 year rides.
At best you can "be honest" with the player and say, "You're not going to play here. So if you want to play, we'll help you find somewhere else to go". But if they decide to stay, they stay.

 

[Hates Monikers]

Green mentioned as a TE, but wasn't he lining up as a wide out last open practice?

Also, Ciarocca mentioned on BTN last week that he was hoping for a starting QB named this weekend. Here Fleck defers again. The wait continues, which is fine - get the right guy. However I always thought Morgan was the shoo-in, since he was a WMU Fleck recruit not to mention a red-shirt. Annexstad has been impressive and I wonder if Fleck is holding on a bit longer with a preconceived Morgan bias or if open practices just happened to be days when Annexstad played better. Either way, I'd expect to see both play.

Both QBs were brought in by Fleck. With those being the only two reasonable choices at QB, not even the redshirt angle really applies as a bias for one over the other.

It's possible they did make a decision on the starter over the weekend but don't want to announce it publicly yet. I'd be a bit surprised if they announce it at all before the first game.

 

[GophersInIowa]

I still think that regardless who is starting, they'll both play next week.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

So Brock is only a Red Shirt freshman, so not sure how that fits into your explanation. Regardless, Zack got a scholarship, it's just in Brock's name for now, as Bob Loblaw suggested.

It actually works because Brock was not a PWO. He was simply a walk-on. The rules are slightly different here concerning these players.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

Well I guess I will admit defeat and give up trying to understand the rules.

I just hope Fleck isn’t trying to game it by refusing to give him a scholarship as a freshman, so that he doesn’t have to honor the multi-year scholarship requirement (only apply to players given a scholarship as freshmen).

The NCAA rules are definitely a bit like reading tea leaves.

For me, it helps to try to come to an understanding of what the rules are aimed to prevent. What they don't want is for a team to use scholarship offers like a try out.

They don't want to let a team essentially bring in 40 people and give scholarships to the best 25. If VV's didn't count, most programs would probably have set up VV and Zack to essentially be competing for a scholarship. As you point out, Zack has a scholarship now because VV left.

I don't think anything nefarious happened here, but you could see how that type of situation could lead to pretty unfortunate situations.

 

[Gophers_4life]

If Zack's priority was to be on scholarship, he wouldn't be here. Even with a number of other P5 scholarship opportunities, Zack still chose to come here for a number of other reasons. You're not going to choose that option, then feel slighted or 'gamed' by the head coach when you don't receive a scholarship before game one of your true Freshman year.

I don't think you're wrong. Especially if VV had stayed here ... I think ZA would be absolutely fine with the idea of being the 3rd string QB, traveling with the team as the emergency option, and running the scout team during this season, and being non-scholarship this fall term. I think that was his true expectation coming.

But things quite obviously didn't work that way. VV left and he's at worst the backup, but possibly the starter, and likely to play a lot. Purely on fairness, and ignoring everything else (which isn't valid, I know), it seems like he should be on scholarship this fall.

*IF* he's going to get put on scholarship in January --and especially important for me, if that means he gets the multi-year guaranteed protections, because of that -- .... then my point is about as moot as it gets. People here are claiming the rules don't allow it for this fall .... I think that's a stupid rule, but I can't argue otherwise and am not going to spend time looking into the vast rulebook.

So that said .... (see below)

Highly doubtful that is the case here.

Fleck isn’t “gaming the system”. Zack can’t be on scholarship until January per NCAA rules. He will then be on scholarship. ZA may very well be the starting QB as a true freshman. He’s not going anywhere.

I think you're really grasping for straws here.

You are throwing out a hypothetical situation here.
I'd say an extremely unlikely scenario.

I withdraw my point/criticism/worry. I admit to being poorly informed and making a moot point. I was wrong.

I will trust you guys and hope that it works out in the end for ZA here, as well as it possibly can.

 

[Gophers_4life]

Also, I believe the rule is you can't take a scholarship away. They are 4 year rides.
At best you can "be honest" with the player and say, "You're not going to play here. So if you want to play, we'll help you find somewhere else to go". But if they decide to stay, they stay.

The (newish, as of 2016-17 school year) rule is that a scholarship can't be discontinued by a coach for any reason relating to athletic performance. Only if the player breaks team rules, becomes academically ineligible, etc. So if a player redshirts, it can technically be for five years. Or perhaps 4.5 years.

BUT this rule only applies if the player gets the scholarship in his/her freshman year. Otherwise, a coach CAN discontinue a scholarship for athletic performance reasons. That's how it always used to be, in fact. Doesn't mean coaches always did that, but the option was there.

The NCAA rules are definitely a bit like reading tea leaves.

For me, it helps to try to come to an understanding of what the rules are aimed to prevent. What they don't want is for a team to use scholarship offers like a try out.

They don't want to let a team essentially bring in 40 people and give scholarships to the best 25. If VV's didn't count, most programs would probably have set up VV and Zack to essentially be competing for a scholarship. As you point out, Zack has a scholarship now because VV left.

I don't think anything nefarious happened here, but you could see how that type of situation could lead to pretty unfortunate situations.

If you sign an NLI, your scholarship can't be taken away for that year. If you don't sign an NLI ... that's on you, in my opinion. You take that risk, hoping to catch on a program instead of taking other options.

If a school wanted to bring in Y unsigned players in the summer, pay for them to go to summer school, and see how well they did in the summer ... and offer scholarships to the best X of them (however many they had leftover from that year's 25 signing class, frankly I see nothing wrong with that. Because, that's on those unsigned players for not signing elsewhere or otherwise going elsewhere for a more firm opportunity.


If that situation were allowed, then when VV walked out, his scholly in the 2018 signing class (out of 25) would become available to give to someone for the fall, and I believe that should be ZA's starting this fall.

My opinion is worthless and moot. The NCAA doesn't care about my opinion.

 

[Iceland12]

So Brock is only a Red Shirt freshman, so not sure how that fits into your explanation. Regardless, Zack got a scholarship, it's just in Brock's name for now, as Bob Loblaw suggested.

Coach Fleck himself suggested it. Almost came right out and said it. The scholarship was for the family.

Mona: you gave a scholarship to one of the Annexstads:

PJ: we're not allowed to give Zach one because of numbers. that will come down the line at some point. it won't surprise anyone. gave a scholarship to brother Brock, a WR. family has two of their sons at U of MN, both walk-ons - that's a financial burden.

 

[salzie]

So, I'm guessing brock wont be on scholarship once zach can be