PJ Fleck growing as a coach

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Gold Rush

Gold Rush

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PJ Fleck came here from Western Michigan as one of the hottest coaches in the U.S. He was young and dynamic and came off a highly successful 13-1 record, putting the Broncos into a Cotton Bowl. He was the first FBS coach born in the 1980's and the big question was is his act going to play in the Big Ten. Other coaches have come in with high hopes and failed - this is a tough conference and there are many who never coached again after being fired.

I think PJ Fleck might not be your classic coach like a Bobby Bowden or Tom Osborne - he is what he is and is a take it or leave it guy that admits "he isn't for everybody." He has enjoyed some success here but I think there is still a little skepticism and some people think he is a little quirky or strange. Some opponents hate him. I think he is still getting better and has a chance for next-level growth from here. He isn't afraid to try some different ideas and that works to his advantage in an ever-changing NCAA. Case in point - new rules and changes involving the portal he kind of flipped a little bit saying he wasn't going to try it that much and then discovering it could be a huge boon if used correctly. He isn't set in his ways like some of the old-timers - he is not afraid to think outside the box and not say "well this is the way it's always been around here." He will most likely say, "What can we do to improve our best?" I like that.

I think he used to go for it on 4th down even when deep in his own zone but he has realized the ramifications if you DON'T make it. There were a few times now when he was tempted vs. Purdue and Nebraska on 4th and short but punted this time instead. Maryland went for it deep in their own zone and got stuffed - the Gophers score shortly afterward and put the game away. Going for it on 4th and short can be a good decision, but it's a risk-reward situation and you better be smart enough to know when to hold 'em and know when to fold 'em or you can blow the whole game. He learned that lesson painfully from the Bowling Green game, but I hope he also learned that if a game plan isn't working, you need to change it up. Had he gone into the Purdue or Nebraska game with that same game plan, he would have lost both games.

PJ Fleck can still infuriate the fans at times and he still makes mistakes. Any time we get into a 2 minute offense I kind of cringe as this aspect is usually not so good. Turning back to look for the changes as the clock is ticking down with less than a minute left is still tough to take. I don't like our chances if we are down by 10 or more with 5 minutes left in the game.

But PJ Fleck could get really big if he is in the right spot. I think Minnesota is perfect for him and his family. I feel the potential for growth is high as he is youthful enough to last a long time, he is getting wiser to take advantage of the new rules and smart enough to change and evolve with the times. I am getting more comfortable with him and hope he continues successfully here as the Gopher coach for a long time!!
 



MaxyJR1 said:
Fleck is 18-20 through 38 B1G Games. 4-1 or better and he will be over .500 through 43 Games.

Kill/Claeys were 16-27 through 43 games

Mason was 16-27 as well.
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Kill/Claeys and Mase had ceilings though and had limitations that I do not see with Fleck. I did enjoy both coaches but they were very set in their ways and weren't going to make the changes needed to take it to the next level. Mason was a very good offensive coach but for whatever reason didn't recruit very well on defense. I doubt Kill or Claeys would have been able to recruit the next level athletes but all three were good coaches. We won't talk about Brewster!
 



MaxyJR1 said:
Fleck is 18-20 through 38 B1G Games. 4-1 or better and he will be over .500 through 43 Games.

Kill/Claeys were 16-27 through 43 games

Mason was 16-27 as well.
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Careful there Maxy...getting close to whether the "cupboard was bare debate" for both Kill and PJ with this analysis...

Mase actually did pretty good with what he inherited; in 1999...went to a Sun Bowl with a mostly Wacker team.
 
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Gold Rush said:
Kill/Claeys and Mase had ceilings though and had limitations that I do not see with Fleck. I did enjoy both coaches but they were very set in their ways and weren't going to make the changes needed to take it to the next level. Mason was a very good offensive coach but for whatever reason didn't recruit very well on defense. I doubt Kill or Claeys would have been able to recruit the next level athletes but all three were good coaches. We won't talk about Brewster!
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Fleck's ability to recruit at the next level will be very dependent on Gophs ability to consistently win at a higher level. To me, that is 8-10 wins in the regular season with occasional win totals above and below that range.
 

UpAndUnder43 said:
Who is the last Gopher coach with a winning B1G record? I doubt I was alive.
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The NCAA doesn't give Claeys credit from his 4-3 B1G record when he was the acting head coach in '13. If they did he would have been very close with a B1G record of 10-11 -- Jeff Horton also was close to .500 at 2-3. But the answer is Murray Warmath with a record of 64-57-4
 




On the flip side, Fleck may be growing as a coach, but he certainly still has room for improvement - or shall we say areas of the game that can be improved on.

in-game strategy - use of time-outs - and (IMHO) overly cautious approach to end-of-half and end-of-game situations. those have been on-going issues. they may not be fatal issues, but there's enough there to be concerned about.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
On the flip side, Fleck may be growing as a coach, but he certainly still has room for improvement - or shall we say areas of the game that can be improved on.

in-game strategy - use of time-outs - and (IMHO) overly cautious approach to end-of-half and end-of-game situations. those have been on-going issues. they may not be fatal issues, but there's enough there to be concerned about.
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Do you have other examples of overly cautious approach to end of half and end of game situations besides the recent 1st half ending against Maryland?

I have seen them intentionally lose yards on quarterback runs at the end of games. Sometimes 2-3 times in a row. Concerning to say the least!
 

Gold Rush said:
Kill/Claeys and Mase had ceilings though and had limitations that I do not see with Fleck. I did enjoy both coaches but they were very set in their ways and weren't going to make the changes needed to take it to the next level. Mason was a very good offensive coach but for whatever reason didn't recruit very well on defense. I doubt Kill or Claeys would have been able to recruit the next level athletes but all three were good coaches. We won't talk about Brewster!
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I love Fleck and hope he is here until the day he retires, but I can't remember a coach for any team at any level that makes me as mad at times as he does. The last two minutes of the first half vs. Maryland summarizes so much of Fleck's in game coaching. He can be so ultra conservative that it can lose you a game. If Maryland cleanly picks up the blocked FG and runs it back I am not sure we go on to walk over Maryland in the second half.

The thing that seperates Fleck from other coaches I've seen at the U is the ability to recruit, make the U an exciting school, and develop talent.
 



MNfootballfan said:
I love Fleck and hope he is here until the day he retires, but I can't remember a coach for any team at any level that makes me as mad at times as he does. The last two minutes of the first half vs. Maryland summarizes so much of Fleck's in game coaching. He can be so ultra conservative that it can lose you a game. If Maryland cleanly picks up the blocked FG and runs it back I am not sure we go on to walk over Maryland in the second half.

The thing that seperates Fleck from other coaches I've seen at the U is the ability to recruit, make the U an exciting school, and develop talent.
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The difference is Fleck is doing everything he humanly can to improve this team. He is putting his whole heart and soul into this - I hope he is successful because I am a fan but also it would be great to see him succeed because he wants it so bad. Mase, face it, was a lazy recruiter and he "had to answer the phone if it rang." He could have been a much more successful coach if he had really gone after the recruiting like Fleck does. Especially defense!!!!
 

noamfromm said:
The NCAA doesn't give Claeys credit from his 4-3 B1G record when he was the acting head coach in '13. If they did he would have been very close with a B1G record of 10-11 -- Jeff Horton also was close to .500 at 2-3. But the answer is Murray Warmath with a record of 64-57-4
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Murray's record in the B10 in the sixties was amazing, given that nearly every team in the league won a championship during that decade - maybe it was every team. The competition was terrific and non-con games were with up and coming Nebraska under Devaney, Missouri in its heyday under Dan Devine, USC in its glory years, Arizona State with legendary coach Frank Kush, and Stanford under John Ralston, among others.
 


Great Plains Gopher said:
Murray's record in the B10 in the sixties was amazing, given that nearly every team in the league won a championship during that decade - maybe it was every team. The competition was terrific and non-con games were with up and coming Nebraska under Devaney, Missouri in its heyday under Dan Devine, USC in its glory years, Arizona State with legendary coach Frank Kush, and Stanford under John Ralston, among others.
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In his 18 years at Minnesota every team, except Northwestern, won at least as share of the Big Ten. Purdue, Indiana and Minnesota were the only three teams not to win the conference outright. Though I think that Minnesota should have won outright in '60 based on Illinois winning outright in '63 with the exact same scenario in the standings as in 1960.
 

MaxyJR1 said:
Fleck is 18-20 through 38 B1G Games. 4-1 or better and he will be over .500 through 43 Games.

Kill/Claeys were 16-27 through 43 games

Mason was 16-27 as well.
Click to expand...

PJ's the best Gopher coach in my lifetime and I'm almost 40.

But these comparisons are a little silly. Mason and Kill inherited teams that had the worst athletes in the entire Big 10.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
PJ's the best Gopher coach in my lifetime and I'm almost 40.

But these comparisons are a little silly. Mason and Kill inherited teams that had the worst athletes in the entire Big 10.
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I agree. The B1G was also 3 teams smaller meaning they played the likes of PSU, OSU, and MICH more often. However they also only had 8 conference games a year.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
PJ's the best Gopher coach in my lifetime and I'm almost 40.

But these comparisons are a little silly. Mason and Kill inherited teams that had the worst athletes in the entire Big 10.
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I agree. I'm 56, and the best seasons of my first 35 years featured mediocre Gopher teams. We've been mostly competitive for 20 years with a few exceptions -- much better than in my youth. I thank god for Mason and Kill for digging us out of large holes and giving us hope. We haven't gotten to where we want to be yet, but I think Fleck can get us there if he stays.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
PJ's the best Gopher coach in my lifetime and I'm almost 40.

But these comparisons are a little silly. Mason and Kill inherited teams that had the worst athletes in the entire Big 10.
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I’m not old enough to remember pre Mason, but I don’t think the athletes that Fleck inherited were a whole lot better than what Kill inherited. Beyond how these three coaches started, I would argue that the optimism of a higher ceiling for the future with Fleck is greater than it was with Mason or Kill at this stage.
 

btowngopher said:
I’m not old enough to remember pre Mason, but I don’t think the athletes that Fleck inherited were a whole lot better than what Kill inherited. Beyond how these three coaches started, I would argue that the optimism of a higher ceiling for the future with Fleck is greater than it was with Mason or Kill at this stage.
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Go watch Northwestern vs Minnesota 2017 for the worst WR and QB combo in Gopher history. That's the gold mine that was left for Fleck at those positions.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
PJ's the best Gopher coach in my lifetime and I'm almost 40.

But these comparisons are a little silly. Mason and Kill inherited teams that had the worst athletes in the entire Big 10.
Click to expand...
Remember, Fleck had some big holes to fill, too. They could not even have the Spring game his first year because they did not have enough healthy offensive linemen, their defensive backfield was a disaster and almost completely decimated and their QB -to put it nicely- was less than ideal. They DID have some talent there though and I agree Mason and Kill inherited some not-so-good teams.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
PJ's the best Gopher coach in my lifetime and I'm almost 40.

But these comparisons are a little silly. Mason and Kill inherited teams that had the worst athletes in the entire Big 10.
Click to expand...
There were some highlights with Carter and Hageman (no guarantee he would have made it through school with Brewster at the helm) -- but you're not wrong.
 

btowngopher said:
I’m not old enough to remember pre Mason, but I don’t think the athletes that Fleck inherited were a whole lot better than what Kill inherited. Beyond how these three coaches started, I would argue that the optimism of a higher ceiling for the future with Fleck is greater than it was with Mason or Kill at this stage.
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If we look at draft picks and UDFAs, even excluding Winfield, Fleck had much more talent than Kill. With All-Big selections as the metric the gulf becomes wider in Fleck's favor.
 

UpAndUnder43 said:
Do you have other examples of overly cautious approach to end of half and end of game situations besides the recent 1st half ending against Maryland?

I have seen them intentionally lose yards on quarterback runs at the end of games. Sometimes 2-3 times in a row. Concerning to say the least!
Click to expand...
Colorado... this has not been discussed too much due to the outright demolition of Colorado by games end, BUT the end of the first half was an absolute cluster. They didn't even get the last play off before time ran out, and IIRC, the clock started running with around 19 secs left. True Fleck thought the clock wasn't started, or wasn't suppose to start(?)... but... come on, someone on the sideline should have heard me screaming from my TV room about the clock!
 
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Fleck did not come here a finished product. Everyone grows and learns every day of their lives if they want. Some don't grow for various reasons, but for the people that are open to learn from failure the future is wide open. He could be the next Saban type coach when he reaches 50 years old. He's a very young man to be in such a big position. I'm very hopeful for the future. I'm also very confident in the future for the team with him and for him personally. I could not ask for anything better at this point. This team (including the coaches) is headed in the right direction. And by that I don't just mean constant low end bowl games and constant .500 winning percentage. I mean high end bowl games and conference championships or at least appearances.

Good things are happening. Trust the process. He's doing a great job.
 

Johnnyboy18 said:
Go watch Northwestern vs Minnesota 2017 for the worst WR and QB combo in Gopher history. That's the gold mine that was left for Fleck at those positions.
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That easily could have been taken care of had Tanner and others been allowed to play that first year. There was not a lot of skilled position talent, but there was talent on that team - check out the Gophers in NFL thread for a refresher on some of them.

I'm all for praising PJ for what he has done with this team as far as recruiting and putting an excitement into the entire state, but one of the two things that are/were frustrating with what he has done is that 2017 season when he, in my opinion, sold out that team and didn't put his best players on the field all for the sake of tempering expectations as signified by him stating it was year zero.

The other issue I have with him is his in game coaching philosophy which has been brought up by others here. He has not "changed his best" when it comes to game planning vs inferior opponents and this year it finally caught up to him against Bowling Green. His style of milking the clock and being ultra conservative doesn't mesh with his off the field persona of being vibrant, energetic and embracing change.
 

I hope that he doesn't grow bigger than Bielema.
 


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