PJ bowl winning streak at 5 and he is #1 all time for Gopher coach bowl wins.

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SeaBee_Gopher

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PJ is a good P5 coach. Can it really be argued? I'm not saying he is great, but he is good. Wouldn't the extra time coaches have available to prepare for bowl games further separate the wheat from the chaff? If he was bad, shouldn't he routinely lose bowl games when coaches have several weeks to prepare for the Gophers? Instead, PJ and his guys often do a good job of eliminating their opponent's strengths and winning with their own. A huge part of coaching is preparation and bowls put an emphasis on this. This team is usually playing pretty average bowl teams because our team is usually pretty average, but PJ seems to get as much as he can out of his team when he has time. He loses his starting QB and what many people think is a great defensive coordinator, but overcomes it and wins.

"With the win over the Falcons, Fleck is still undefeated in the postseason while at Minnesota with a now 5-0 record in bowl games. He already held the program record for bowl wins, and the Gophers added another in Detroit."

https://saturdaytradition.com/minne...nesotas-quick-lane-bowl-win-vs-bowling-green/

Oh, and his players generally like him and seem like good young men. They get good grades. I'm proud of our team. It's not easy to consistently win around here.

 

I feel like PJ improved a lot as a coach this season as well. It felt as if the football gods immediately punished his mistakes, oversights
and regression and forced him to think about his process. I feel like an offseason of reflection will leave him a much-improved coach for 2024.
 







Some guy said:
Bad coaches don’t recover from 1-11 to take western Michigan to the cotton bowl

He is at least a decent coach. Anyone who says otherwise is using hyperbole or is simply clueless
Click to expand...
Someone should tell Nebraska that they fired a decent coach.
 

Breakin' The Plane said:
Someone should tell Nebraska that they fired a decent coach.
Click to expand...
They did fire a decent coach.
Unfortunately that decent coach was turned into a failure by his inability to control his alcohol consumption.
Not saying he would’ve gotten it done for sure. But being drunk at the bars 5 nights a week in Lincoln and Omaha couldn’t have helped him. That’s what my Nebraska friends tell me anyways
 



Yes, Fleck has accomplished some good things at MN.

but he is doing that in an era when over 60% of FBS teams qualify for a Bowl Game.

Bowl wins are nice. But, if you rank Gopher Coaches by number of conference titles, or number of National Championships, you aren't going to find Fleck on the list.

that doesn't mean Fleck is a bad coach. but it does mean other Gopher coaches have accomplished more than Fleck. I am just trying to put Fleck's accomplishments in some historical perspective.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
Yes, Fleck has accomplished some good things at MN.

but he is doing that in an era when over 60% of FBS teams qualify for a Bowl Game.

Bowl wins are nice. But, if you rank Gopher Coaches by number of conference titles, or number of National Championships, you aren't going to find Fleck on the list.

that doesn't mean Fleck is a bad coach. but it does mean other Gopher coaches have accomplished more than Fleck. I am just trying to put Fleck's accomplishments in some historical perspective.
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I’d agree with you. But MN has not had a coach do that in almost 65 years. So in most people’s lifetimes on the board he’s been the best coach MN has had.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
Yes, Fleck has accomplished some good things at MN.

but he is doing that in an era when over 60% of FBS teams qualify for a Bowl Game.

Bowl wins are nice. But, if you rank Gopher Coaches by number of conference titles, or number of National Championships, you aren't going to find Fleck on the list.

that doesn't mean Fleck is a bad coach. but it does mean other Gopher coaches have accomplished more than Fleck. I am just trying to put Fleck's accomplishments in some historical perspective.
Click to expand...
If you rank Gopher coaches on division, conference and National titles it will be a really short list and Fleck will be the only coach on it since the 1960s with the co-division championship in 2019.

Fleck is unlikely to ever crack the Bierman/Warmath tier of Gopher coaches but he is the best coach the program has had since the glory days.
 

SON coming in with some hard hitting knowledge that Fleck hasn’t won a national title or big ten title. 😂
 



MNVCGUY said:
If you rank Gopher coaches on division, conference and National titles it will be a really short list and Fleck will be the only coach on it since the 1960s with the co-division championship in 2019.

Fleck is unlikely to ever crack the Bierman/Warmath tier of Gopher coaches but he is the best coach the program has had since the glory days.
Click to expand...

There isn't a coach anywhere in the current college football landscape who could take over at the University of Minnesota and equal Bernie Bierman's record. Probably very few, if any, who could equal Warmath's record.

We're Minnesotans, though, and we are outstanding at being perpetually disappointed. So, as a life-long Minnesotan, I appreciate SON's take. To paraphrase Charles Mingus, you better get it in your gloomy Minnesota soul.
 
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short ornery norwegian said:
that doesn't mean Fleck is a bad coach. but it does mean other Gopher coaches have accomplished more than Fleck. I am just trying to put Fleck's accomplishments in some historical perspective.
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Yes, but in most fields of human activity, comparisons become problematic if one goes too far back in history to make them. In the almost 50 years since he retired, no NCAA basketball coach has accomplished what John Wooden did at UCLA and I don't expect anyone in my remaining life to come very close.
 

If the 'glory days' of Gopher football are so long ago that they don't matter in the modern context - then I suggest that Gopher Hole change the name of this forum.

it is currently "7 National Titles Football Forum." but since that happened so long ago, let's just change it to Gophers Football Forum.

either the past matters or it doesn't. If it doesn't matter, then let's change the name of the Forum.

-----

this is not meant to be trolling or snarky - serious Question:

for purposes of discussion, when does the "modern" era of Gopher football begin? where do we draw that line?
 


short ornery norwegian said:
If the 'glory days' of Gopher football are so long ago that they don't matter in the modern context - then I suggest that Gopher Hole change the name of this forum.

it is currently "7 National Titles Football Forum." but since that happened so long ago, let's just change it to Gophers Football Forum.

either the past matters or it doesn't. If it doesn't matter, then let's change the name of the Forum.

-----

this is not meant to be trolling or snarky - serious Question:

for purposes of discussion, when does the "modern" era of Gopher football begin? where do we draw that line?
Click to expand...
For me anything before 1980 is totally irrelevant.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
If the 'glory days' of Gopher football are so long ago that they don't matter in the modern context - then I suggest that Gopher Hole change the name of this forum.

it is currently "7 National Titles Football Forum." but since that happened so long ago, let's just change it to Gophers Football Forum.

either the past matters or it doesn't. If it doesn't matter, then let's change the name of the Forum.

-----

this is not meant to be trolling or snarky - serious Question:

for purposes of discussion, when does the "modern" era of Gopher football begin? where do we draw that line?
Click to expand...

Does it really matter when the 'modern' era begins or ends?

The pertinent question: would any current coach do better at Minnesota than Fleck has, given the same circumstances?

I find it unlikely. First off, I doubt that "the top guys" (whomever you consider them to be) would choose to come here to Minnesota, because it's really a no-win situation. And while Fleck has raised the bar, some people still consider that to be not good enough.

By most accounts, any new coach would be hamstrung by the lack of financial support in this NIL era.

Would any coach be likely to win conference championships here? I have my doubts.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
If the 'glory days' of Gopher football are so long ago that they don't matter in the modern context - then I suggest that Gopher Hole change the name of this forum.

it is currently "7 National Titles Football Forum." but since that happened so long ago, let's just change it to Gophers Football Forum.

either the past matters or it doesn't. If it doesn't matter, then let's change the name of the Forum.

-----

this is not meant to be trolling or snarky - serious Question:

for purposes of discussion, when does the "modern" era of Gopher football begin? where do we draw that line?
Click to expand...


Options
1906 - forward pass - before 1906 the game would not even be recognizable. Anything before this is truly ancient history


1936 - AP Poll - this is when football went from a high brow club sport to a national game.

1945 - end of world war 2
World War 2 significantly shifted the power dynamics of college football. Post 1945 it settled a bit into a new power dynamic

1964 - end of one platoon football. With a few exception years you could only sub one person per play. Which effectively meant your 11 offensive players had to also play defense because it would take an 11 play drive to get all 11 off the field (and if they took them all off another 11 to get them back on)….IMO nobody can argue the modern era started before 1964. This would be my second choice for the beginning of the modern era. Pre 1964 it’s barely the same game.

1984 - end of ncaa TV monopoly - schools own their own tv rights. Not ncaa. To me, this is the beginning of the modern era. Everything that has happened since has stemmed from the Oklahoma ruling.

1998 - BCS - I personally think 1998 to 2019 was the best era for college football. We didn’t know it then, but I am starting to see it now. With 2020 came free transfers shortly followed by NIL. College football as we know it is over in.

2014 - CFP era - I think 2014-2020 is too short to be considered an era and would lump it in with the BCS era.

2020 - free transfer era





My vote is 1984. I could be talked into 1964 or 1998.
 

Some guy said:
SON coming in with some hard hitting knowledge that Fleck hasn’t won a national title or big ten title. 😂
Click to expand...

His posts go no where over and over. He never says anything. Just says stuff like “maybe next year the quarterback will be better but maybe it won’t be!” And somehow that’s repeated on every message. It’s insane
 

I have a few problems with some of the ways Fleck coaches, but the thought that keeps going throug my mind is "can you possibly do BETTER than 5-0 in Bowls"?
 
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UpAndUnder43 said:
His posts go no where over and over. He never says anything. Just says stuff like “maybe next year the quarterback will be better but maybe it won’t be!” And somehow that’s repeated on every message. It’s insane
Click to expand...
Your criticism of his posts seems reasonable.

But we have to consider the good things he brings to GH.

Like putting so many lines between each sentence.

Is that helpful for the reader, or is it more annoying? Nobody can really say.

But I will say this:

I'd rather read his thoughts than watch Mpls spam up every thread any day of the week.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
Yes, Fleck has accomplished some good things at MN.

but he is doing that in an era when over 60% of FBS teams qualify for a Bowl Game.

Bowl wins are nice. But, if you rank Gopher Coaches by number of conference titles, or number of National Championships, you aren't going to find Fleck on the list.

that doesn't mean Fleck is a bad coach. but it does mean other Gopher coaches have accomplished more than Fleck. I am just trying to put Fleck's accomplishments in some historical perspective.
Click to expand...

If you rank Gopher coaches like that, you're likely around 80 years old with fond memories of a bygone era. No shade or sarcasm - but I just can't imagine anyone ranking Gopher coaches in the modern era that way.

I really think the fairest measuring stick we've got, is ranking coaches on big ten conference records.
By that metric, he is one of our better coaches.

I've had plenty of my own ups and downs with the program over the years - and last year felt like a real low for me following certain ugly losses. That said, I still think Fleck can get us to conference title game...winning it, man that would truly be something. If that happens, I'll gladly use the glory-days evaluation metric...and happily rank him against those old greats.

Cheers!
 


short ornery norwegian said:
Yes, Fleck has accomplished some good things at MN.

but he is doing that in an era when over 60% of FBS teams qualify for a Bowl Game.

Bowl wins are nice. But, if you rank Gopher Coaches by number of conference titles, or number of National Championships, you aren't going to find Fleck on the list.

that doesn't mean Fleck is a bad coach. but it does mean other Gopher coaches have accomplished more than Fleck. I am just trying to put Fleck's accomplishments in some historical perspective.
Click to expand...
College football now provides a real part of revenue generation for the economy of the United States of America that it is far more meaningful than it was in the 1930’s, 1960’s, and1999’s.

National Championships do mean more today than they meant in the 1980’s. And that trend is continuing to expand.

Certainly, there are more bowl games today. Those bowl games provide much more needed and desired CONTENT for networks, streamers, pay-tv providers and the consumers of those live entertainment events.

The bowl games and play-off games provide exposure to the cities that host them.

And: they provide PRODUCT for American manufactures, gambling concerns, travel industries, and fans of the hundred or so major-colleges in the running for bowl game invitations.

The pressure is ON to be invited to a bowl game today. There was a built-in excuse for every Big Ten & Pac 10 team in the 1960’s that did not get a Rose Bowl game invitation: only one team per conference was invited.

Bowl games are a more vital part of the “grand scheme of American entertainment, life and economic enhancement in 2023 than EVER before.

Stick that where the sun won’t shine Patrick Reusse!
 
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saw this list - reposting it just for fun - Gopher Football all-time Bowl game record
(some bowls have changed names, so including the old and new names)

24 games: overall record 12-12

Insight/Guaranteed Rate: 1-3
Quick Lane: 3-0
Music City: 2-1
Rose: 1-1
Sun: 1-1
Outback/ReliaQuest: 1-0
Holiday: 1-0
Pinstripe: 1-0
Independence: 1-0
Citrus: 0-1
Liberty: 0-1
Micron PC/Pop-Tarts: 0-1
Car Care/Duke's Mayo: 0-1
Texas: 0-1
Hall of Fame: 0-1
 

walrus said:
College football now provides a real part of revenue generation for the economy of the United States of America that it is far more meaningful than it was in the 1930’s, 1960’s, and1999’s.

National Championships do mean more today than they meant in the 1980’s. And that trend is continuing to expand.

Certainly, there are more bowl games today. Those bowl games provide much more needed and desired CONTENT for networks, streamers, pay-tv providers and the consumers of those live entertainment events.

The bowl games and play-off games provide exposure to the cities that host them.

And: they provide PRODUCT for American manufactures, gambling concerns, travel industries, and fans of the hundred or so major-colleges in the running for bowl game invitations.

The pressure is ON to be invited to a bowl game today. There was a built-in excuse for every Big Ten & Pac 10 team in the 1960’s that did not get a Rose Bowl game invitation: only one team per conference was invited.

Bowl games are a more vital part of the “grand scheme of American entertainment, life and economic enhancement in 2023 than EVER before.

Stick that where the sun won’t shine Patrick Reusse!
Click to expand...
Also: Coach Fleck IS doing an excellent job as the head of the 2023 U of M football program and IS in the process of doing very well in terms of the last 50 years of the football coaches at this U of M B1G conference member school. This was his 7th year and counting. Fleck IS the right person for this job.

A lot of things about college football have changed & are continuing to change. That is exactly how the future is and has to be. It is the nature of how the future is, always has been and always will be, IMHO only, of course.

:0)
 
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Some guy said:
Options
1906 - forward pass - before 1906 the game would not even be recognizable. Anything before this is truly ancient history


1936 - AP Poll - this is when football went from a high brow club sport to a national game.

1945 - end of world war 2
World War 2 significantly shifted the power dynamics of college football. Post 1945 it settled a bit into a new power dynamic

1964 - end of one platoon football. With a few exception years you could only sub one person per play. Which effectively meant your 11 offensive players had to also play defense because it would take an 11 play drive to get all 11 off the field (and if they took them all off another 11 to get them back on)….IMO nobody can argue the modern era started before 1964. This would be my second choice for the beginning of the modern era. Pre 1964 it’s barely the same game.

1984 - end of ncaa TV monopoly - schools own their own tv rights. Not ncaa. To me, this is the beginning of the modern era. Everything that has happened since has stemmed from the Oklahoma ruling.

1998 - BCS - I personally think 1998 to 2019 was the best era for college football. We didn’t know it then, but I am starting to see it now. With 2020 came free transfers shortly followed by NIL. College football as we know it is over in.

2014 - CFP era - I think 2014-2020 is too short to be considered an era and would lump it in with the BCS era.

2020 - free transfer era





My vote is 1984. I could be talked into 1964 or 1998.
Click to expand...
Very interesting! Thanks for the history.

I disagree that 1998 to 2019 was the best era, but would like to know more about why you think it is?

I think this era will turn out better once a few major NIL and portal bugs are worked out. With NIL & especially the portal, more teams will be relevant for the national title each year because it will be harder to load up talent three deep in great recruiting areas. A few key injuries or transfers are now more likely to knock a perennial power off their perch. As a fan of college football overall, that's a positive (not the injuries) even if it isn't for the Gophers right now.
 

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