Pit transfer Marcus Carr officially commits to Minnesota

[Thomasthetank]

I like this move in isolation. But if they don't use the last scholarship on a PG who can play next season, they will regret it.

I actually think it's more vital to find a good 3 and D guy than a true backup pg. Our offense can be started by multiple people but we need good shooters. I think stull is more important right now than a lead guard.

 

[Otis]

The Rice Commission recommendations, which the NCAA said would be adopted before next season, called for players transferring due to a coach being fired would be eligible immediately and would not have to sit out a season.

Is it possible the Richard has some inside info that the NCAA is going to grant this recommendation for sure. This would completely change this discussion. Because if he is eligible right away, I want to know if he can play point.

He had a lot of assists so he can distribute, but is he capable of being the primary ballhandler.

 

[Winona Gopher]

Here's a synopsis on Carr that I got from the Pitt board (they've got a thread going on "Carr to Minnesota"):

A young guard who was forced to play too many minutes as a freshman because Stallings turned over all but 2 roster spots this year. At times, there were 5 freshmen on the court at the same...a recipe for disaster in the ACC.

A good kid, Carr gave it his best. The year he has to sit out will help him mature and get physically stronger. He hit the wall late in the season, which was to be expected.

Venturing on the Pitt board was laughable. Some people calling Capel one of the best coaches in the country is absolutely ridiculous.

Anyway, this is a very solid pick up for the Gophers. I would think he's a better than his 3P% based upon how good of a free throw shooter he is. Could be a situation where he had to fire a lot of late contested 3s similar to what Nate Mason had to do during his Sophmore year. If he's possibly eligible beginning this year then that's fantastic and really solves the PG depth issue going into next year.

 

[60's Guy]

How cool would it be to hear sometime this summer that Carr is eligible for the coming season and Stull has agreed to follow Akeem and coach Jeter to Minnesota? I'd like that news a lot!

 

[Holy Man]

The Rice Commission recommendations, which the NCAA said would be adopted before next season, called for players transferring due to a coach being fired would be eligible immediately and would not have to sit out a season.

Is it possible the Richard has some inside info that the NCAA is going to grant this recommendation for sure. This would completely change this discussion. Because if he is eligible right away, I want to know if he can play point.

He had a lot of assists so he can distribute, but is he capable of being the primary ballhandler.

I was thinking the same thing, but I also think that will be one of the elements the schools will fight hardest against. A rule like that creates a much higher risk to fire a coach and possibly put a program into a deeper dumper for a couple more years. No way schools will buy into that. They could get shamed into it, though. The NCAA is real good at those tactics going the other way. Interesting to see how it goes in the other direction.

 

[bizzle22]

I was thinking the same thing, but I also think that will be one of the elements the schools will fight hardest against. A rule like that creates a much higher risk to fire a coach and possibly put a program into a deeper dumper for a couple more years. No way schools will buy into that.

I'm kind of back and forth on that one. I like just about any rule that gives the players more power, but I also worry about the repercussions of that one. Could make re-builds take a lot more time if a coach is fired and then the program loses a couple promising underclassmen on top of that. Especially at smaller schools where those players could easily be poached by high majors. And the application of it could get murky. Is it just if the coach is fired? What about a coach retiring or stepping down for health reasons?

 

[Livingat45north]

I was thinking the same thing, but I also think that will be one of the elements the schools will fight hardest against. A rule like that creates a much higher risk to fire a coach and possibly put a program into a deeper dumper for a couple more years. No way schools will buy into that. They could get shamed into it, though. The NCAA is real good at those tactics going the other way. Interesting to see how it goes in the other direction.

And the contrary point of view...
If you're the new coach coming in, do you want a lot of open slots where you can recruit your players, or do you want to be stuck with the players the old coach recruited? I'd want the former. As long as players aren't forced to leave, then I think the "coach is fired you can play for another team next year" rule is a good one for all parties.

 

[bga1]

And the contrary point of view...
If you're the new coach coming in, do you want a lot of open slots where you can recruit your players, or do you want to be stuck with the players the old coach recruited? I'd want the former. As long as players aren't forced to leave, then I think the "coach is fired you can play for another team next year" rule is a good one for all parties.

I have been thinking that opening the transfers to immediate eligibility would be a disaster. Maybe limiting it to coaching changes would work though. If that makes schools more reluctant to ditch coaches so quickly- that could slow down the arms race in college basketball a little.

 

[JimmyJamesMD]

I have been thinking that opening the transfers to immediate eligibility would be a disaster. Maybe limiting it to coaching changes would work though. If that makes schools more reluctant to ditch coaches so quickly- that could slow down the arms race in college basketball a little.

agreed. Players develop relationships with their coaches, and its probably the #1 reason why a player picks said school (special exceptions, of course). So if a school and get rid of a coach whenever, or a coach can get a new job whenever, then a player should be able to move when that relationship is going away. It only makes sense. Dont like it? Then make these schools and coaches follow their contracts

 

[Holf]

agreed. Players develop relationships with their coaches, and its probably the #1 reason why a player picks said school (special exceptions, of course). So if a school and get rid of a coach whenever, or a coach can get a new job whenever, then a player should be able to move when that relationship is going away. It only makes sense. Dont like it? Then make these schools and coaches follow their contracts

Completely agree - players should be eligible to change course based on altered circumstances i.e. fired coach that are in their own best interests without penalty.

Has the NCAA offered a timeline for a ruling on Rice recommendations? I ran a search and couldn't find anything specific.

 

[Otis]

Fired coach or a coach who job jumps. As long as they don't follow the coach.

 

[howeda7]

I actually think it's more vital to find a good 3 and D guy than a true backup pg. Our offense can be started by multiple people but we need good shooters. I think stull is more important right now than a lead guard.

I don't share the optimism of those who think McBreyer can play PG for more than a few minutes per game. All you'd need to do is throw a press on us and we'd be cooked. See Iowa 2017.

 

[bga1]

I don't share the optimism of those who think McBreyer can play PG for more than a few minutes per game. All you'd need to do is throw a press on us and we'd be cooked. See Iowa 2017.

Pitino's guys have been very good on breaking presses by passing side to side, rather than dribbling through it. I don't think pressing us with McBrayer at the point would work that well. Pressuring our guards our high has worked at times and even Mason has been tripped up by that.

 

[fraternity2017]

In a sense, this team is going to live and die with Isaiah Washington (unless we get a high quality, grad transfer, true point guard). Which is both scary and exciting.

He has a ton of potential and a ton of pieces around him that can really make him look good. He'll be getting a ton of minutes and with his current personal brand, he and this program will end up getting a ton of national attention if he succeeds. If he meets his potential, we're in for an exciting season. He doesn't need to score a million points, but he can, which is great. He just needs be smart and make good decisions.

If he gets injured or things go off the rails, he can't hide. Pitino can't really bench him. He's going to sink or swim.

 

[bga1]

Fired coach or a coach who job jumps. As long as they don't follow the coach.

Excellent point. Following the coach could lead to a lot of abuse. Guys getting hired for big bucks because they could bring a recruiting class with them -not good.

 

[beavergopher]

I wonder what the next coach will think of the roster?

 

[Holy Man]

Fired coach or a coach who job jumps. As long as they don't follow the coach.

Really good point. Now in the self interested category, this thing better get implemented by September, for at least a year.

 

[die hard gopher]

I really don’t think Harris being the #2 PG was ever plan A.

Yep, plan A was to bring in a quality freshman PG like Anthony Nelson or Eric Hunter. We struck out on every PG target we had this year.

Harris was never brought in to be a PG and never showed PG skills in HS. If he was 6-4, nobody would ever consider him a PG/combo guard. He always has been an undersized pure shooter, not a combo guard.

 

[fryguy22]

The Rice Commission recommendations, which the NCAA said would be adopted before next season, called for players transferring due to a coach being fired would be eligible immediately and would not have to sit out a season.

Is it possible the Richard has some inside info that the NCAA is going to grant this recommendation for sure. This would completely change this discussion. Because if he is eligible right away, I want to know if he can play point.

He had a lot of assists so he can distribute, but is he capable of being the primary ballhandler.

Since I don't think your question has been directly answered - yes, Carr can absolutely play PG. He played ~70% of Pitt's minutes at the PG at the end of last season. We actually recruited him out of high school at the same time we were recruiting IW.

 

[bizzle22]

I just think there are so many tentacles to this free transfer for a fired coach thing. I definitely wouldn't be okay with allowing players to follow a job jumper, but what about:

If the coach who got fired gets a HC job at a new school can the player follow him?

If the coach who got fired gets an assistant coaching job elsewhere can the player follow him?

What about if an assistant coach gets fired? In many cases the assistant is the one really developing a relationship with the player and his family. Do you get a free transfer if your lead recruiter gets fired? How about if your lead recruiter get a head coaching job at a new school -- can you follow him with no sit-out year?

And while I pretty much never feel bad for coaches because they do get paid a ton of money to do this job, there are aspects of it that could be unfair to the coaches as well. The appeal of a job is at least partially based on the team you will be taking over. If Coach A takes a job and then finds out that half the players there are going to use their free transfer can Coach A get out of the contract? In a situation like that it is clearly no longer the job that Coach A signed up for. And yes, I realize that some transfers may happen if you have a coaching change, but if you give players a free transfer then it is going to happen a lot more often.

Like I said, I'm not necessarily against free transfers after coaching changes, but I think it is more complex than some make it out to be.

 

[go_gophers]

For those who reference McBrayer's ineffectiveness against Iowa two seasons ago, I think it can be reasonably assumed that he has improved his ball-handling, strength and awareness since then. He absolutely struggled that one game two seasons ago, but I tend to think he will be at worst, serviceable. The trump card is whether or not he can stay healthy. Coffey may be asked to do more, but he also will (hopefully) have improved his ball-handling, strength and decision making.

 

[MennoSota]

Apparently this thread is no longer about Marcus Carr. I'm hoping he has a stellar career at Minnesota.
As to transfers playing immediately, the danger is you get player collusion that stacks certain teams while other teams are stripped bare. It could ruin college basketball.

 

[Ihatebucky]

I would think current coaches would favor allowing players to transfer immediately if a coach is fired, as that would make ADs more reluctant to fire coaches - knowing they would like lose a good number of players.

 

[Ihatebucky]

Carr is a great pickup. Yeah if he has to sit the year that's not ideal but it is going make those early 20's teams, with the 3 18' MN recruits, very strong. Glad Pitino is willing to make longer term good program decisions instead of reaches just to save his job.

 

[cjbfbp]

I don't share the optimism of those who think McBreyer can play PG for more than a few minutes per game. All you'd need to do is throw a press on us and we'd be cooked. See Iowa 2017.

Agreed, but most people have short memories.

 

[go_gophers]

Agreed, but most people have short memories.

I remember it well, but it was also one game two seasons ago. Ever have a bad game? I’m not saying he’s the next Chris Paul, but it’s also unrealistic to assume he hasn’t improved over that time period.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[cjbfbp]

I was thinking the same thing, but I also think that will be one of the elements the schools will fight hardest against. A rule like that creates a much higher risk to fire a coach and possibly put a program into a deeper dumper for a couple more years. No way schools will buy into that. They could get shamed into it, though. The NCAA is real good at those tactics going the other way. Interesting to see how it goes in the other direction.

Agreed. We don't need a mediocre coach protection rule in college basketball. If they're going to do that, then they should let all players transfer without sitting out. That way if players leave a program after the coach is fired, the new coach has a better chance of recruiting enough replacements who can play immediately.

 

[go_gophers]

I just watched his freshman year highlights and he reminds me a bit of Nate Mason. He has good range, handles and strength to play through contact. He also looks like he can score from all three levels (highlights always look amazing). Like Mason, he's not especially athletic, but looks to have very good vision and passing ability (again, the highlights always make it look a little better than reality). If he ends up being anything close to Mason, I'll be ecstatic!

 

[HOOP DREAMS]

Harris was never brought in to be a PG and never showed PG skills in HS.

What are these unique PG only skills you speak of?

Any 2 guard player has to have some level of similar/overlapping 'skills' to a 1.

 

[Ski U Mah Gopher]

Fired coach or a coach who job jumps. As long as they don't follow the coach.

I think that's the key.

I can see without that, a mid-major coach taking a bunch of his talent with him.

The only exception would be an otherwise eligible grad transfer.