PiPress: Mason finally will see the on-campus stadium he lobbied so hard for

[50PoundHead]

I can understand the argument that he wasn't having much success with recruiting. But I'm not sure that we can make the logical leap needed in order to say he had become "lazy". While he was bringing in some of the worst recruiting classes in the Big Ten he was busy lobbying all over hell for a new stadium. He knew he needed the stadium to get the prgram to the next level.

What's significant about the 2006 Insight Bowl is not that Minnesota blew a lead. What's significant is that Minnesota was playing in the Insight Bowl . If it were not for the unexplicable complacency (or outright mocking) of our media and its tepid fan base, Minnesota should have been playing Texas in the Alamo Bowl. As it were, Minnesota was in a bowl game that supposedly no one cared about. That's not on Mason.

I think he began to understand that Wisconsin and Iowa were having greater success because they chose to be more successful, while Minnesota continued to be complacent every time hope shimmered. TCF was the only thing that could begin to level that playing-field.

But it is on Mason to some extent. The head coach has to promote the program and generate excitement. I think Mason did fine (let me stress "fine") on the field, but he did little or nothing in the media market to drum up fan support. For some reason, he didn't see it as in his job description.

I really laugh (and I mean laugh) that the media fawns over him a bit now after he gave them short shrift most of the time he was head coach. There are two coaches in Minnesota history--Denny Green and Glen Mason--who I believe really screwed the pooch. Both of these guys could have had the fan base eating out of their hands, but they couldn't drum up even a modicum of warmth to ingratiate themselves with fans.

 

[Governor Sibley]

Coach Mason deserved to open TCF.

That's all I'm going to say.

 

[50PoundHead]

And Moses deserved to go to Canaan, but someone at higher paygrade forbade it.

 

[gopherdudepart2]

Mason was not lazy in recruiting, if you ever met a parent of a player that had been recruited by him or had him in there living room (THEY WOULD ABSOLUTELY REFUTE That lazy comment, he was very friendly and liked to smooze the parents even if you could tell he hated it). Coach Mason was anything but lazy when it came to trying to get a player to come to Minnesota. His last season they were actually starting to have a lot of success in getting talented players who had talent again to commit to being here. That all went to bleep when Maturi fired him. What I could agree with he had absolute disdain for any of the PR stuff or selling tickets, promoting the program to the high school coaches or any of that rah rah stuff that Joel himself is all about. I can agree that he settled and kind of had given up on the best recruits from the state of Minnesota and the CDH kids, and that he lacked vision in going after some better players just because he thought he could not sell them on coming here to Minnesota. He had reached a settled stage, but once the new stadium was passed he was eneregized. The timing of the firing could not have been handled any worse, and Maturi did a real horse bleep job of communicating the firing. What he was not wrong on was the need to have an on campus stadium and have what the rest of the Big 10 had. Maturi, at least he will never live the Brewster bleeped up hire down. Brewster was his guy and his guy only, Maturi hard sold everybody to make that call.


I will agree with Studwell coach Mason deserved to at least a chance to open the new stadium and one season in it, but Joel Maturi just could not help himself, he had to have his guy and he convinced Bruininks of that. You all know that Joel had to have his guy. That is what always pissed Joel off that coach Mason made a lot of money, had some power, and would not agree to the tickets clause or the offseason promotion stuff, he just wanted to be a football coach. That and that he would not take less money for himself to replace coordinators, Brewster had a lot more money for staff then Mason ever received.
Why else do you think we ended up with the cheerleader in Brewster, he was not qualified for the job in any way but sold himself to Joel. We can agree the results were a disaster. Mason was not a football legend but he was a decent football coach.
The part where coach Mason burned us was when he openly interviewd for the OSU job, it leaked that he had talked with Michigan State and LSU. His campaigning for other jobs did hurt recruiting, burned Maturi and hurt the fan base, he was not a saint but 2007 he was actually more like Pre-2003 trying to buy into the program again.

 

[dpodoll68]

Mason was not lazy in recruiting, if you ever met a parent of a player that had been recruited by him or had him in there living room (THEY WOULD ABSOLUTELY REFUTE That lazy comment, he was very friendly and liked to smooze the parents even if you could tell he hated it). Coach Mason was anything but lazy when it came to trying to get a player to come to Minnesota. His last season they were actually starting to have a lot of success in getting talented players who had talent again to commit to being here. That all went to bleep when Maturi fired him. What I could agree with he had absolute disdain for any of the PR stuff or selling tickets, promoting the program to the high school coaches or any of that rah rah stuff that Joel himself is all about. I can agree that he settled and kind of had given up on the best recruits from the state of Minnesota and the CDH kids, and that he lacked vision in going after some better players just because he thought he could not sell them on coming here to Minnesota. He had reached a settled stage, but once the new stadium was passed he was eneregized. The timing of the firing could not have been handled any worse, and Maturi did a real horse bleep job of communicating the firing. What he was not wrong on was the need to have an on campus stadium and have what the rest of the Big 10 had. Maturi, at least he will never live the Brewster bleeped up hire down. Brewster was his guy and his guy only, Maturi hard sold everybody to make that call.


I will agree with Studwell coach Mason deserved to at least a chance to open the new stadium and one season in it, but Joel Maturi just could not help himself, he had to have his guy and he convinced Bruininks of that. You all know that Joel had to have his guy. That is what always pissed Joel off that coach Mason made a lot of money, had some power, and would not agree to the tickets clause or the offseason promotion stuff, he just wanted to be a football coach. That and that he would not take less money for himself to replace coordinators, Brewster had a lot more money for staff then Mason ever received.
Why else do you think we ended up with the cheerleader in Brewster, he was not qualified for the job in any way but sold himself to Joel. We can agree the results were a disaster. Mason was not a football legend but he was a decent football coach.
The part where coach Mason burned us was when he openly interviewd for the OSU job, it leaked that he had talked with Michigan State and LSU. His campaigning for other jobs did hurt recruiting, burned Maturi and hurt the fan base, he was not a saint but 2007 he was actually
more like Pre-2003 trying to buy into the program again.

In summation: "He was not lazy...now let me itemize all the ways in which he was lazy."

And the only reason he wanted the stadium is because it would allow him to get better players without having to actually try harder.

 

[Maximus]

That and that he would not take less money for himself to replace coordinators, Brewster had a lot more money for staff then Mason ever received.

Mase was making 1.65 annually..Brew was making 1 million....that's an extra 650,000 to go to his staff.

Try harder.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

If you defend Tim Brewster on this board most will agree with you, if you defend Glen Mason on this board you will get ripped badly. I've never understood it at all. It's like that Seinfeld episode with the bizarro world, everything is backwards.

That has a lot to do with how the two are often looked at. I don't think anyone on this forum would ever say that Brewster was a better football coach than Mason. That seems pretty obvious.

Here is a list of the things that i've seen Brew "defended" about recently"
(1) People said that he was a used carsalesman whose schtick is the reason for his failure.
- - Most of us who argue against this are NOT arguing that he wasn't a failure, we are arguing that he failed because he was a bad coach and not because of his schtick (which all coaches have). I never thought that saying someone was a bad coach would qualify as "defending" them, but leave it to gopherhole.

(2) Brew's 2008 class wasn't a decent recruiting class
- - This is really up for debate and it entirely depends upon how you look at it. There will be a handful of pretty talented players from this class and if all of our classes had as much talent as this class, i'd feel good about our chances (with the proper player development) of turning our program around. But that could easily be debated.

(3) Brew brought in too many JuCos
- - I think Kill will bring in a similar number to Brew

However, i can't think of ANYONE that thought Brew shouldn't be fired. We all thought it was his time to go and he failed he (overall) miserably. That isn't defending him. There are definitely more people who thought Mason should have stayed than Brew should have stayed , so by that standard, your comment doesn't make sense.

 

[Buck_Buchanan]

...but just because we choose to like the guy doesn't make us fools or bad people...believe me, the Michigan game killed me too...we are in the Rose Bowl without that meltdown...the final game against Iowa is a stinger too....

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think we came "Oh so close" in 1999 as well. I recall Nystrom missing a FG near end of regulation (again, could be wrong) vs Wisky - a game we lost in OT 20-17. We make that FG, Wisky drops from 7-1 to 6-2 and we move up from 5-3 to 6-2 in the Big 10. 4 teams would have finished w/ 6-2 records.

 

[ulfr]

The best way to sum him up was that he was lazy. Just plain lazy, especially by the standards of a Division I football coach. He worked hard at first, up until about '03 or '04, but at some point decided that it wasn't worth it to try to make Minnesota better, and also decided that no one could make it happen. That's why he is worthy of disdainful comments from Gophers fans. After a certain point, he just didn't care.

QFMFT

January and December official visits. One can sum the end of Mason's tenure with that observation alone. The man was the king of official visits in the dead of Minnesota's winter just trying to hack another class together just before the NSD deadline. After '04 he was completely phoning it in. After being a few defensive stops from actually making it happen in '03 look at what he did and didn't bring in recruiting. Way to capitalize on that momentum...

Please can Kill do better so we can stop talking about Grinnin' Glen!?!

 

[highwayman]

1) He's no longer the coach, and hasn't been for 4+ seasons;
2) It was fun while it was fun;
3) It wasn't fun at the end, and most of that was Glen's doing;
4) NO ONE had even had him on their radar as a coach since;
5) He could have showed up at any time at the stadium and would have been welcome--most of this is Glen's doing;
6) This is my last post ever about Glen Mason. We've had three coaches since him;
7) Move on.

 

[GoAUpher]

That isn't defending him.

You're using logic to discuss Mason with DMB123. I don't suspect you'll have much luck.

 

[Monty519]

6) This is my last post ever about Glen Mason. We've had three coaches since him;
7) Move on.

That's the main problem. In less than 5 years, we've had 3 coaches since his 10 year tenure...that's why people keep coming back to him. Hopefully Kill can put the nail on that coffin and let it die. I agree though, we do need to move on.

 

[DMB123]

In summation: "He was not lazy...now let me itemize all the ways in which he was lazy."

And the only reason he wanted the stadium is because it would allow him to get better players without having to actually try harder.

You have no proof he was lazy at all. We have the stadium all because of Mason whether you admit it or not. The posts about Mason not trying and mailing it in are a bunch of crap. If Mason hadn't been fired Greg Jones would have been the best linebacker we've had here in a long time.

But you're right, I'm sure Mason thought, "let's get a new stadium so I can be lazy as hell." You go with that.

 

[DMB123]

That's the main problem. In less than 5 years, we've had 3 coaches since his 10 year tenure...that's why people keep coming back to him. Hopefully Kill can put the nail on that coffin and let it die. I agree though, we do need to move on.

We've had two coaches since Mason. Counting Horton is ridiculous.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

You have no proof he was lazy at all. We have the stadium all because of Mason whether you admit it or not. The posts about Mason not trying and mailing it in are a bunch of crap. If Mason hadn't been fired Greg Jones would have been the best linebacker we've had here in a long time.
But you're right, I'm sure Mason thought, "let's get a new stadium so I can be lazy as hell." You go with that.

If Mason was here, Greg Jones would have been a RB.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

I'm mostly kidding, but you can't expect the exact same results with players going to different programs. Mason didn't have a whole lot of success in getting the most out of his defensive talent. It's hard for me to just think of it as a foregone conclusion that Greg Jones would have been the same player here as he was at MSU. That said, i'd bet that a couple of our offensive lineman would have had significantly better careers with Mase.

 

[imthewalrus]

All-American defenders under Mason:

Lamanzer Williams...1997 and Tyrone Carter...1998 & 1999

Both were Wacker recruits...and... they thrived under Mason. In fact, Williams had been a linebacker and struggled for playing time in his early years at Minnesota. He was switched from linebacker to defensive end his senior year by Mason, achieved 23.5 sacks and achieved All-Big Ten and All-American status.

No modern era coach other than Warmath at Minnesota had turned out All-American defenders after 1960. Only Mason.

 

[DMB123]

You're using logic to discuss Mason with DMB123. I don't suspect you'll have much luck.

I'll wait for you to show me one post of mine discussing Mason with no logic.

 

[6 Nov 1999]

Does leadership include tearing up a down marker when a call doesn't go your way or clothes-lining an opposing player?

50PoundHead,

I would unhesitatingly follow LCDR Wayne Woodrow Hayes, USN into combat.

 

[6 Nov 1999]

The Kessel, 19 November 1942 - 31 January 1943

I've been trying to tell everyone this for years!

FireDaveLee,

I am glad I was able to help you.

 

[6 Nov 1999]

The Kessel, 19 November 1942 - 31 January 1943

I wasn't among the people calling for Mason to be fired. But after that bowl game collapse, it was almost impossible not to fire him. There was already growing dissatisfaction with Mason even before the bowl game. It wasn't as if Maturi fired Mason despite overwhelming support of Mason from the fans and boosters. Hiring Brewster was a mistake, or at best a big gamble that didn't pay off, but that doesn't necessarily mean that firing Mason was a mistake. We could have hired some other coach.

But we didn't. Instead we ended up doing something hopelessly stupid, and in the process we incurred massive self inflicted casualties and wounds from which it will take years to recover and heal. Bottomless stupidity.

 

[6 Nov 1999]

The Kessel, 19 November 1942 - 31 January 1943

Cal Stoll outperformed him. Stoll was 27-29 in the Big Ten. The difference was that Stoll's Gophers played brutal non-conference schedules.

We are in agreement. Cal Stoll should never have been fired. Glen Mason should never have been fired.

 

[6 Nov 1999]

The Kessel, 19 November 1942 - 31 January 1943

I have rarely (if ever) seen a single comment on any of these boards saying that Mason was a bad coach. To the contrary, most will agree that he could turn chicken sh*t into chicken salad like few others could.

The best way to sum him up was that he was lazy. Just plain lazy, especially by the standards of a Division I football coach. He worked hard at first, up until about '03 or '04, but at some point decided that it wasn't worth it to try to make Minnesota better, and also decided that no one could make it happen. That's why he is worthy of disdainful comments from Gophers fans. After a certain point, he just didn't care.

When you're trying to turn a poor-to-mediocre team into a consistently competitive one, in any sport, at any level, about the last thing you can afford to be is lazy. When you're Steve Spurrier at Florida, you can get away with it. You can't when you're Glen Mason at Minnesota. Despite what some may think, I think even now that Mason could be successful at Ohio St., because the thing that takes the most work and diligence (recruiting) is basically taken care of for you there. Spurrier is now learning the lesson at South Carolina that you can't get away with being lazy when you're at a school that doesn't recruit itself.

dpodoll68,

So you were in The Big House on 8 October 2005!

 

[6 Nov 1999]

The Kessel, 19 November 1942 - 31 January 1943

Mason was only as successful as his Coordinators, especially on the Defensive side of the ball.

Let's see now. David Lockwood was earning $130,000 / year as DC. When Joel fired Glen, he hired a DC whose name I cannot remember, for almost $350,000 / year. The guy stuck around for maybe a year? Then we had Ted Roof, and after that I cannot remember who. All of Brewster's DCs were paid more than $250,000 / year. Inquiring minds would like to know why Joel couldn't defecate this kind of money for a DC when Glen was the head coach. You cannot make the argument that Glen's bloated salary was the cause of the money not being there for competitive DC pay. Remember, despite such claims, Joel suddenly and magically came up with money to buy out 4 years of Glen's contract. If, instead of buying out Glen's contract, Joel put a fraction of said money into higher salaries for a DC, I wonder what the results would have been? Simply bottomless stupidity. If not bottomless stupidity, then Benedict Arnold.

 

[50PoundHead]

11/6/99, there was money left over because Brewster's base salary was considerably lower than Mason's to dedicate more money for assistants. Of course, that doesn't work if you hire the wrong guys, but the money was there.

Your point on Mason's buyout is relevant, but my guess is part of the reason Brewster took a lower salary was on the condition that revenue would be there for assistants' pay.

If it would have been me, I would have sent Mason packing when he implemented a power play on the U a year earlier and took negotiations all the way up to the bowl game. He may have been our best coach since Holtz, but he wasn't that good

PS--I don't think coordinators per se make that big a difference. You have to have a system as a head coach and Mason knew what he wanted to do on offense, but he never seemed to have the same vision on defense. You need good position coaches, but, at least to me, the most important dynamic above that is for the coach and the coordinators to be on the same page and Mason never seemed to get on the same page with any of his defensive coordinators.

 

[Arbogast]

Let's see now. David Lockwood was earning $130,000 / year as DC. When Joel fired Glen, he hired a DC whose name I cannot remember, for almost $350,000 / year. The guy stuck around for maybe a year? Then we had Ted Roof, and after that I cannot remember who. All of Brewster's DCs were paid more than $250,000 / year. Inquiring minds would like to know why Joel couldn't defecate this kind of money for a DC when Glen was the head coach. You cannot make the argument that Glen's bloated salary was the cause of the money not being there for competitive DC pay. Remember, despite such claims, Joel suddenly and magically came up with money to buy out 4 years of Glen's contract. If, instead of buying out Glen's contract, Joel put a fraction of said money into higher salaries for a DC, I wonder what the results would have been? Simply bottomless stupidity. If not bottomless stupidity, then Benedict Arnold.

So you don't remember Everett Withers name but you remember his salary? Ok... Withers defensive coordinator experience in the NFL demanded a higher salary. He had almost 20 years as a coordinator before coming to MN. Did it work out? Not at MN but it did at UNC. Lockwood wasn't even a coordinator before he came here. He didn't warrant a higher salary pay. He had only coached defense for 4 years before MN. Don't the boosters for the most part buyout contracts of coaches? I could be wrong on that point but I thought that's what I heard. Maybe that's the SESleaze I'm sure Joel doesn't defecate money. If he did he would probably not be an AD.

 

[50PoundHead]

So you don't remember Everett Withers name but you remember his salary? Ok... Withers defensive coordinator experience in the NFL demanded a higher salary. He had almost 20 years as a coordinator before coming to MN. Did it work out? Not at MN but it did at UNC. Lockwood wasn't even a coordinator before he came here. He didn't warrant a higher salary pay. He had only coached defense for 4 years before MN. Don't the boosters for the most part buyout contracts of coaches? I could be wrong on that point but I thought that's what I heard. Maybe that's the SESleaze I'm sure Joel doesn't defecate money. If he did he would probably not be an AD.

I honestly don't know, but I believe Maturi has stated that the buyouts did not come out of the football budget.

 

[6 Nov 1999]

The Kessel, 19 November 1942 - 31 January 1943

So you don't remember Everett Withers name but you remember his salary? Ok... Withers defensive coordinator experience in the NFL demanded a higher salary. He had almost 20 years as a coordinator before coming to MN. Did it work out? Not at MN but it did at UNC. Lockwood wasn't even a coordinator before he came here. He didn't warrant a higher salary pay. He had only coached defense for 4 years before MN. Don't the boosters for the most part buyout contracts of coaches? I could be wrong on that point but I thought that's what I heard. Maybe that's the SESleaze I'm sure Joel doesn't defecate money. If he did he would probably not be an AD.

Arbogast,
1. I apologize for not remembering Everett Withers’ name. I don’t have an encyclopedic memory like you do. Is there a reason I should have remembered Everett Withers’ name, besides the fact that he was to the best of my knowledge the highest paid assistant in the history of the University of Minnesota sports? Did he do something noteworthy that should have caught my attention, like field a defensive unit at least as good as the 1999 defensive unit?
2. I remember David Lockwood’s name and his salary because it was in the press at the time and there were a good number of folks on this board bashing David Lockwood, generally insulting him, and calling him names. I remember one poster referring to him as David Lockstupid. Regardless whether David was promoted from within and the circumstances by which he became our DC, the fact remains he was our DC, he probably was part of a football team that had a record at least good as Everett Wither’s team, and his salary was about 1/3 of Everett’s salary. I am too lazy to check the facts on Eric Thrall’s website. I am sure you will point out my error if I am wrong.
3. I think your argument about the justification for Withers’ high salary is irrelevant to the discussion. The point is not whether Everett’s credentials justified this high salary. The point is that Joel Maturi found money for a $350,000 DC salary after having spent upwards of $6,000,000 buying out Glen Mason’s contract. Yet Joel Maturi could not defecate more money for a DC while Glen was coach. To me these are amazing financial facts. I don’t care where the money came from. Seems like Joel was playing a selective game of claiming, “My bank account is empty.”
4. I think Joel Maturi missed his true calling in life, that of being an investment banker on Wall Street working for Lloyd Blankfein of Goldman Sachs.

 

[Arbogast]

Google works wonders.