Phil Steele Hates Us

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Minnesota- 6 National Championships
Iowa- 0 National Championships.

Hope this helps.
 

Phil Steele is great....

....just ask Phil Steele.

Seriously, I think he spends roughly half of his 350+ page magazine patting himself on the back. It's sad.
 

Please try and understand that folks like Steele are incapable of looking beyond pure numbers and stats. The simple way to earn love from him and others like him is to kick the asses of those he ranks above you; plane and simple. So let it be written; So let it be done. GO GOPHERS!
 

Minnesota probably doesn't deserve to have a guy on those lists to be objective though. Theret is the only guy who is even close. Everyone else has either not played enough to merit being on a list or has played poorly enough to not be on the list. Stoudamire makes it as the KR. I don't think Ellstad has the leg-strength to be a top kicker...he is good...not great. That is it, and that is all the team deserves at this point. When you lose 9/11 guys on D, and your offense was the worst in the Big Ten....don't expect a lot of preseason individual accolades.

Vandenberg in the top 50 QB's is a joke. Kirk Cousins as high as he is was a joke.
 


Phil Steele has no reason to like us. Our returning starters have been less than spectacular, and our guys coming in are unproven. What do you expect?
 



Rosemountian said:
Minnesota probably doesn't deserve to have a guy on those lists to be objective though. Theret is the only guy who is even close. Everyone else has either not played enough to merit being on a list or has played poorly enough to not be on the list. Stoudamire makes it as the KR. I don't think Ellstad has the leg-strength to be a top kicker...he is good...not great. That is it, and that is all the team deserves at this point. When you lose 9/11 guys on D, and your offense was the worst in the Big Ten....don't expect a lot of preseason individual accolades.

Vandenberg in the top 50 QB's is a joke. Kirk Cousins as high as he is was a joke.
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While I can agree with your critique of Steele's ranking of the QBs, you lost your credibility early in your post with the Theret comment. He is too slow and lacks the athleticism to get it done against the best talent in The Big Ten. Frankly, you should know this, Royston is a much better safety than Theret and it is Royston who have received some preseason rankings and deserves to be listed even higher.
 



I think Theret is more valuable than a lot of people realize.
 

Stargenes said:
While I can agree with your critique of Steele's ranking of the QBs, you lost your credibility early in your post with the Theret comment. He is too slow and lacks the athleticism to get it done against the best talent in The Big Ten. Frankly, you should know this, Royston is a much better safety than Theret and it is Royston who have received some preseason rankings and deserves to be listed even higher.
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If you have read any preseason reading/blog. Theret is getting more hype than Royston. I would say they are pretty comparable, both are a little better than your average safety...very little. The difference is, Theret puts up better stats and is not coming off a broken leg. Royston coming off a broken leg is not even close to being top 30 in the country at his position.
I never said i disagreed with Theret being left off the list, I said if there was one guy who was close...it would be him. If Royston was for sure going to be healthy, he would be seen by me as pretty much equal to theret.

Rittenberg...spelling?...has theret listed as the most irreplaceable defensive player on the team. You undervalue him. Theret, much like Collado, receives too much hate due to a poor freshman campaign in which he should have been redshirted. People still have the bad memories, and probably won't forget the bad memories in favor of newer ones unless the team starts winning at a higher level.
 

Rosemountian said:
If you have read any preseason reading/blog. Theret is getting more hype than Royston. I would say they are pretty comparable, both are a little better than your average safety...very little. The difference is, Theret puts up better stats and is not coming off a broken leg. Royston coming off a broken leg is not even close to being top 30 in the country at his position.
I never said i disagreed with Theret being left off the list, I said if there was one guy who was close...it would be him. If Royston was for sure going to be healthy, he would be seen by me as pretty much equal to theret.

Rittenberg...spelling?...has theret listed as the most irreplaceable defensive player on the team. You undervalue him. Theret, much like Collado, receives too much hate due to a poor freshman campaign in which he should have been redshirted. People still have the bad memories, and probably won't forget the bad memories in favor of newer ones unless the team starts winning at a higher level.
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I am certainly aware of the hype Theret has gotten from espn blog but if you read what Rittenburg said closely, he only makes the statement, which is simply untrue, because Theret appeared to be the only returning healthy starter from last year's defense. Frankly, he has probably lost his job for good(to Watkins). However, I do agree that he will still be able to help the team in spots and on special teams. Regarding stats, while he got a few more interceptions, Royston was third on the team in tackles and is a far superior cover guy. You also bring up Collado; I like what he brings to the secondary and expect him to start the majority of the games this year at CB. Collado is a Team guy as well which I believe is important with a young talented defense. Bottom line, Football is the ultimate team sport. You have to depend on other guys to good as a team. Theret, besides his lack of speed, will have great difficulty overcoming getting himself suspended for drunk driving at the beginning of Spring practice before his senior year. The team needed him and he let them down BIG TIME. If I'm Collado, I'd rather have a guy I can depend on coming off the hash covering me over top when in roll up coverage. Finally, you are simply wrong suggesting that a healthy Royston is equal to Theret. Royston is faster, has a higher football IQ and is a more reliable tackler. Royston, you should note is a higher quality athlete overall. He, like the youger players, is more athletic and versatile. I believe that he was quite highly ranked as a CB out of high school (something like 41st in the country). So, please know that I am not hating on Theret. I am just pointing out that the position competion surge we have seen improve for this team may have caught him sleeping. Nevertheless, his experience will give us great depth at the position.
 

"Phil Steele Hates Us"

Hate him back; It works for me. ;)
 




Carter and Watkins are Special!

Rosemountian said:
If you have read any preseason reading/blog. Theret is getting more hype than Royston. I would say they are pretty comparable, both are a little better than your average safety...very little. The difference is, Theret puts up better stats and is not coming off a broken leg. Royston coming off a broken leg is not even close to being top 30 in the country at his position.
I never said i disagreed with Theret being left off the list, I said if there was one guy who was close...it would be him. If Royston was for sure going to be healthy, he would be seen by me as pretty much equal to theret.

Rittenberg...spelling?...has theret listed as the most irreplaceable defensive player on the team. You undervalue him. Theret, much like Collado, receives too much hate due to a poor freshman campaign in which he should have been redshirted. People still have the bad memories, and probably won't forget the bad memories in favor of newer ones unless the team starts winning at a higher level.
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Read Doogie's interview and you will see that I am not alone in my assessment of what is going on in the secondary for the Gophers. Never forget, Speed Kills, and Watkins is very fast. Folks gat a chance to see this Spring what it is like in the secondary with two fast Safeties and the myth of needing Theret to make calls and get everyone into position was soundly dispelled. In fact, as I said, Royston has a higher football IQ and Watkins and Carter both immediate family that played at the D1 level and above; this tends to indicate higher football IQ as well. If you don't trust me, trust Doogie, a quite knowledgeable guy on gopher football:

http://1500espn.com/sportswire/Gophersbyposition_Primary_focus_on_secondary
 

I personally do not think very highly of Theret or Royston. They are both slightly above average AT BEST when healthy. If a guy like Watkins can overtake them, I will be very pleased.

The OP of this thread was that Phil Steele hated the gophers. I simply am pointing out that other than the KR, the only guy that even merited consideration to be on Phil Steele's lists was Theret (Also, Royston if he wasn't coming off a broken leg). I never was saying that Theret was a great player. I also stated that Theret is undervalued as a player (he is). That doesn't mean I think he is great. It means I think he is okay, while many think he is bad.
 

I would be ecstatic to see Royston have a successful year. I hope we are able to get to the QB, and allow our safeties not to have to cover as long as they had to last year. From what I understand I think being able to have Watkins come in at nickle and allow Roysten, Theret, and Watkins play a variety of looks will allow the Defense to be able to utilize all the skills of our talented safeties.

From the interview it seemed to me that Watkins will be our nickle and first safety in if someone can't go, and Theret better stop the bullcrap off field stuff or he will be replaced.

If you don't trust me, trust Doogie, a quite knowledgeable guy on gopher football
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Doogie has admitted on this board that he is passionate about gopher football, but admits he isn't very knowledgeable about football. So I wouldn't put that at the end of your post.

Once again I don't see any issues with Royston and Theret starting at safety again. If Royston's IQ is higher then Theret's, then we would expect Royston to have a huge year. (This is all of course assuming that our d-line will be able to get more pressure on the QB.) Otherwise I think it won't matter how fast and smart they are, if a QB has all day to throw we will get hurt on 3rd down again.


And if Iceland is counting at home, yes I read a Doogie link. I figured if I was going to respond I would at least have a context in which to respond with. I was caught between an emoticon and some (...)'s.
 

monk10 said:
I would be ecstatic to see Royston have a successful year. I hope we are able to get to the QB, and allow our safeties not to have to cover as long as they had to last year. From what I understand I think being able to have Watkins come in at nickle and allow Roysten, Theret, and Watkins play a variety of looks will allow the Defense to be able to utilize all the skills of our talented safeties.

From the interview it seemed to me that Watkins will be our nickle and first safety in if someone can't go, and Theret better stop the bullcrap off field stuff or he will be replaced.


Doogie has admitted on this board that he is passionate about gopher football, but admits he isn't very knowledgeable about football. So I wouldn't put that at the end of your post.

Once again I don't see any issues with Royston and Theret starting at safety again. If Royston's IQ is higher then Theret's, then we would expect Royston to have a huge year. (This is all of course assuming that our d-line will be able to get more pressure on the QB.) Otherwise I think it won't matter how fast and smart they are, if a QB has all day to throw we will get hurt on 3rd down again.


And if Iceland is counting at home, yes I read a Doogie link. I figured if I was going to respond I would at least have a context in which to respond with. I was caught between an emoticon and some (...)'s.
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My point was that you should trust me and what I say. I see you must believe Theret has a high football IQ. I don't really know. But I got a different read from the interview of Coach Lee; if Theret has to beat someone out to start, he is done. He may be the slowest DB we have and it is a liability on the field. But we will see. I wish all of our players the best so the Team can win. By the way, don't you know Doogie was trying to be humble when he made the so called concession of limited football knowledge?
 

if Theret has to beat someone out to start
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Again I think Theret's starting status being in question has to do with his off the field activities not his on. We are talking about someone who was driving drunk, hit a car, and tried to drive a way. The fact he was suspended indefinitely puts his starting status at risk, not his football performance.

I think if Theret performs like he normally does during fall camp and keeps his nose clean then he will be in the starting line up. Again I don't think Royston having a great year means that Theret has to be off the field for that to happen. If Royston can get to as many spots as Theret could get to (and a couple more b/c he is faster) then we are talking about an All-Big Ten season for Royston, and I think that would be a great. Also remember when Royston was breaking the insight bowl record for tackles, Theret was busy picking off passes and making tackles also.

In tandem we are talking about a pair of safeties who collected 22 tackles 2 interceptions, a fake punch catch, and a forced fumble in the last game of the year together. Now you add in a nickle back that could easily start if one of those two can't perform, and you have a lot of diversity of skills for a D-Coordinator to switch up coverages and blitzes to help shore up an embarrassing stat from last season around 3rd down conversion percentage. Theret is currently ranked 6th in Gopher history in interceptions, by getting 3 picks a year since his freshman year. I imagine he will get 4 this year if our D-Line lives up to some of the hype that the reports having been talking about.

As far as Football IQ, I'll trust our coach if you don't mind:
Ronnie Lee: "Kyle is a street-smart player. He knows the angles to take to the ball. He's smart enough to put himself into position to make plays."
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In addition to that quote the article that had that also had this:
Much of that improvement will start with Royston and Theret. The two became friends last season, while Royston sat out after his transfer but practiced with the team. Ultimately they became roommates, a familiarity that should help on the playing field.
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So if Royston is as smart or smarter then Theret on the field, I expect big things out of our starting safeties and that makes me even more optimistic about our secondary, b/c they work so well together.
 

This is True

Kratos3 said:
Phil Steele has no reason to like us. Our returning starters have been less than spectacular, and our guys coming in are unproven. What do you expect?
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Agree. Revel in the fact that nothing is expected of this team. Nothing. That is great spot to be in. I love it. Steele or any other sports scribe has no basis to rate us higher.
 

monk10 said:
Again I think Theret's starting status being in question has to do with his off the field activities not his on. We are talking about someone who was driving drunk, hit a car, and tried to drive a way. The fact he was suspended indefinitely puts his starting status at risk, not his football performance.

I think if Theret performs like he normally does during fall camp and keeps his nose clean then he will be in the starting line up. Again I don't think Royston having a great year means that Theret has to be off the field for that to happen. If Royston can get to as many spots as Theret could get to (and a couple more b/c he is faster) then we are talking about an All-Big Ten season for Royston, and I think that would be a great. Also remember when Royston was breaking the insight bowl record for tackles, Theret was busy picking off passes and making tackles also.

In tandem we are talking about a pair of safeties who collected 22 tackles 2 interceptions, a fake punch catch, and a forced fumble in the last game of the year together. Now you add in a nickle back that could easily start if one of those two can't perform, and you have a lot of diversity of skills for a D-Coordinator to switch up coverages and blitzes to help shore up an embarrassing stat from last season around 3rd down conversion percentage. Theret is currently ranked 6th in Gopher history in interceptions, by getting 3 picks a year since his freshman year. I imagine he will get 4 this year if our D-Line lives up to some of the hype that the reports having been talking about.

As far as Football IQ, I'll trust our coach if you don't mind:
In addition to that quote the article that had that also had this:

So if Royston is as smart or smarter then Theret on the field, I expect big things out of our starting safeties and that makes me even more optimistic about our secondary, b/c they work so well together.
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You are obviously straining to support Theret and I respect that. However, pulling quotes from last year is a bit disingenuous. If you follow a lot of college football you notice that some of the comments about players take on certain themes. Guys that are slow or lacking of athleticism are complimented for being savvy or field smart; able to take good agles. But the bottom line is that such players are torched when you encounter high end talent; Exposed if you will. The schedule this year does not give the Gophers the luxury to line up 20 yards off the ball so we don't get beat deep. One thing I do agree with you about, the coaches will decide what is best for the team. And based on what I saw this Spring, I doubt very seriously Watkins would be sent to the bench to make room for Theret. The extra speed back there just makes the defense so much better. I know you want Theret to earn that record, but are you willing to sacrifice victories to allow him to get it? I hope the coaches aren't. But again, I just want the team to get better than they were last year in the Insight Bowl.
 

not sure if i agree with title

Look at the end of the season last year he has many guys from Minnesota. You cant have a bunch of players on the list every year. His list at the end of the year means a lot more then his list at the start of the year before a single snap.
 

gophers2rosebowl said:
Look at the end of the season last year he has many guys from Minnesota. You cant have a bunch of players on the list every year. His list at the end of the year means a lot more then his list at the start of the year before a single snap.
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You are right. And in all fairness, the Gophers do have a number of unproven players that they have to rely on. It makes sense that Steele lower the expectations under the circumstanses. We will likely see a number of guys recognized by year end.
 

Stargenes said:
You are obviously straining to support Theret and I respect that. However, pulling quotes from last year is a bit disingenuous. If you follow a lot of college football you notice that some of the comments about players take on certain themes. Guys that are slow or lacking of athleticism are complimented for being savvy or field smart; able to take good agles. But the bottom line is that such players are torched when you encounter high end talent; Exposed if you will. The schedule this year does not give the Gophers the luxury to line up 20 yards off the ball so we don't get beat deep. One thing I do agree with you about, the coaches will decide what is best for the team. And based on what I saw this Spring, I doubt very seriously Watkins would be sent to the bench to make room for Theret. The extra speed back there just makes the defense so much better. I know you want Theret to earn that record, but are you willing to sacrifice victories to allow him to get it? I hope the coaches aren't. But again, I just want the team to get better than they were last year in the Insight Bowl.
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I don't believe I'm straining and I apologize if my posts come across that way. All I have been trying to do is remind you that this isn't a Theret vs Royston thing, which a lot of your posts are set up as. The way I have been doing that is just stating what Theret has done when given the opportunity. In addition I pointed out how successful they were together, each making plays to help the Gophers win football games. I definitely wouldn't go so far as to strain in my argument to say that if Theret starts it will be the difference in (the lack of ) victories. I think the victories and improvement on the defense come from the d-line changes not any changes in the secondary.
 

Steele is clueless about anything to do with Gopher football. Just look at the last 3 years and his predictions.

2007 picked last in the B10
2008 picked as one of his most improved teams in the country and go to a bowl game
2009 picked middle of the pack B10 and go to a bowl game

what a moron.
 

monk10 said:
I don't believe I'm straining and I apologize if my posts come across that way. All I have been trying to do is remind you that this isn't a Theret vs Royston thing, which a lot of your posts are set up as. The way I have been doing that is just stating what Theret has done when given the opportunity. In addition I pointed out how successful they were together, each making plays to help the Gophers win football games. I definitely wouldn't go so far as to strain in my argument to say that if Theret starts it will be the difference in (the lack of ) victories. I think the victories and improvement on the defense come from the d-line changes not any changes in the secondary.
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Not trying to belabor the point but I think I can clear this up. Theret, like many have observed over the years, is what he is; somewhat of an overachiever given his physical size and limited speed. He had set himself up for a chance to be a four year starter with an above average performance in '09. However, he was exposed in many games and it was obvious that opponents were gameplanning to attack him which caused the coaches to adjust and ask more of Royston. Coach Brewster did not only open up competition this Spring for the QB spot, he said all the jobs were open and that included the safety positions. He had stated on signing day that he was looking to "UPGRADE" the secondary but specifically mentioned the safety spot. For whatever reason, after the first couple of Spring practices, Theret decided to go on a binge and did one of the more irresponsible things you can do when drinking, drive a car. Maybe he was depressed due to the unanticipated challenge for his position. Watkins was coming after him no matter what. The kid just oozes with talent and only needed repetitions to bridge the gap of experience. As Coach Brewster stated, "Watkins seized the opportunity." He has stepped up big time and more than likely will not surrender the Strong Safety Starting spot until he graduates. The reason I keep mentioning Royston, he owns the other starting safety spot and IMHO, Theret could not beat him out either. Frankly, Lewis may even get the call should Royston's recovery be delayed a game or two, instead of Theret as well. Yes, that is how far he has fallen in the new age of competitive secondary play for the Gophers. Now that more talented options have developed, Theret can not click his heels and get back to Kansas anymore, so to speak. And as to your claim that the secondary does not make the difference on defense, you are absolutely wrong. In fact, the secondary was the difference in both open scrimmages this Spring and will likely be this fall as well. You see, when a guy catches a ball, and the 2ndary closes in very quickly, there are very few yards gained after the catch. Speed gives you that perk. A conerback can play cover two more aggressively when he knows his Safety will come flying off that hash when the ball hits the air. The secondary is a highly interdependent sub-unit of the defense. One guy can however bring down the entire unit.

Finally, even though Watkins obviously has more talent and ability, he is still a FROSH and having Royston back their is a perfect combination to bridge the experience gap. I don't think we would be even having this converstion had Royston not been injured. He and Watkins would be the undisputed starters. Unfortunately, more people were not able to see how effective the secondary was in the first open scrimmage before he got injured. Nevertheless, I have no favorites but the Gopher football team as a whole. But I know talent when I see it.
 

It will be a fun Fall camp to watch. I like the fact that we can have this conversation about our Gophers. IMO, this conversation doesn't even get as far as this if Theret didn't make a terrible decision, get suspended indefinitely, and Watkins didn't seize his opportunity. That is the excitement about depth. At least we both agree that we hope Royston has a big year for us :).
 

monk10 said:
It will be a fun Fall camp to watch. I like the fact that we can have this conversation about our Gophers. IMO, this conversation doesn't even get as far as this if Theret didn't make a terrible decision, get suspended indefinitely, and Watkins didn't seize his opportunity. That is the excitement about depth. At least we both agree that we hope Royston has a big year for us :).
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Well, for sure it would have been a different conversation; On that we can agree. And yes, a big year for Royston would be very helpful for the team. He is a Captain and cinfirmed leader.
 

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