Phil Miller blog: Dungy has connected with Kill, Maturi says

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Gee, I wonder what message board JM was referring to.:cool02:
 

station19 said:
Gee, I wonder what message board JM was referring to.:cool02:
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My first thought as well.

In terms of the Dungy-Kill relationship, one would think it is off to a good start; winning the FCA coach of the year award has to look pretty good in Tony's eyes.
 

Gah, Badger Joel just doesn't get it.

Win, bigger stadium, more money, more winning!

But hey, let's cut corners because "we know who we are."

I wish he knew his time was finished, but I'm sure he needs to bungle a volleyball hire first.
 

The Footings for Enlarging TCF Stadium

I thought when the stadium was built they put in the additional concrete footings to accomodate two future decks on what I would call the "north" side of the stadium just in case the football team actually won on the field. Supposedly, if the team was successful (winning) the demand for tickets would increase?

I still think Minnesota is indeed "The Sleeping Giant" of college football and...if they win a Big Ten Football Title...lookout! People will be out on street corners selling hats, t-shirts and other Gopher paraphenalia much like when the Twins won world series titles. Gophers in a New Year's Day Bowl game during Kill's tenure?
 


NateDawgUM said:
Gah, Badger Joel just doesn't get it.

Win, bigger stadium, more money, more winning!

But hey, let's cut corners because "we know who we are."

I wish he knew his time was finished, but I'm sure he needs to bungle a volleyball hire first.
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I agree, but not entirely. The need to win is a primary factor that hinders expansion of the stadium. But I think more folks need to consider the possibility that TCF's size now is what it will always be regardless of winning. Not saying that is for sure by any means. Winning will certainly guarantee sellouts at its current capacity but may not guarantee that an expansion to 70K or 80K would be a good idea. I'm not sold that pro-centered fanbase of MN will embrace the Gophers the way we want them too regardless of winning. Bandwagon fans only go so far and you don't want to expand the stadium simply to cash in on the best seasons only to leave empty seats during less successful years. In that regard, I think Joel's "recognize who we are" statement makes some sense. You can't predict the future and so you should recognize who you are at the current time.

That said, an assumption that we can never grow on his part would also be erroneous. And I definitely think the proposed solution for the current "arms race" is pretty tone deaf as well. Taxing the loyal customers for more money when the quality of the product (in football for a while and recently in hockey) isn't stellar is shortsighted IMO. Especially when you add in the fact that Gopher fans are bombarded with ads and promotions every direction they turn.
 

Wahoo McDaniel said:
I thought when the stadium was built they put in the additional concrete footings to accomodate two future decks on what I would call the "north" side of the stadium just in case the football team actually won on the field. Supposedly, if the team was successful (winning) the demand for tickets would increase?

I still think Minnesota is indeed "The Sleeping Giant" of college football and...if they win a Big Ten Football Title...lookout! People will be out on street corners selling hats, t-shirts and other Gopher paraphenalia much like when the Twins won world series titles. Gophers in a New Year's Day Bowl game during Kill's tenure?
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The structure is there to support one more deck. Phil Esten always referred to the current upper deck as the middle deck on my tour of TCF back in 2008.

My only concern is that the U would expand too quickly based on an initial surge of bandwagon fans following a successful Rose Bowl season. I think it is important to build the demand until it exists for real. In other words, get a waiting list for tickets going, set a goal for number of people on that list, and see if you can maintain that level of support for a few years (which would likely include some leaner seasons).

The last thing we should want expansion that is initially supported with bandwagon fans who jump ship at the first sign of trouble (Michigan '03 is a micro level example). Then you're left with an empty upper deck and the perception that the Gophers aren't good enough to draw fans or that they aren't a hot ticket. You can get past that as a pro team but I feel like the perception is just different for Big Ten football.
 

Picture a world...

I was just thinking 70-80,000 regular attenders at a Gopher football team sounds amazing/incredible/fun/sweet/cool...Pick your superlative. But really, it is gonna take some serious sustained excellence to get football fans in MN to stand up and take notice of Gopher football. The Vikes seem to be committed to making headlines and putting butts in seats by continuously fielding a team that contends. They have done so for quite a long time in MN and the MN fan base has responded with faithful attendance and rabid loyalty. The Gophers are not going to challenge for the loyalties of Minnesota football fans unless one or both of the following conditions exist over the next 10 years:

1) The Vikes are not able to work out the stadium deal and the LA Vikings reward their bronze & buxom southern California fans with a trifecta of NFC West and Super Bowl titles, just because they're not in MSP anymore! (tongue in cheek, mind you: Based on the frustrating axiom that MN teams need to move to win big, Twins notwithstanding)
2) Coach Kill turns this program into a Big Ten title contender and BCS bowl winner.

The question that lingers for me is this: If the Vikes do stay in MN and continue to field a competitive and exciting team, AND if the Gophers take the next step and enjoy success similar to our neighbors to the south and *shudder* east, IS there sufficient demand for college football in MN to warrant an expensive addition to the Bank?

I'd like to hope so, but really, short of a full-blown market analysis AND a cultural seismic shift in the success level of our footballers, I don't think we can KNOW!

At any rate, GO GOPHERS!!!
 

If the Vikings get a new stadium and rebuild on their current sight where will they play? Surely, the Vikings will play in a 51,000 seat stadium *rolls eyes* I gurantee the Vikings pay for an additional seating plan at TCF.
 



I don't know what to expect with the Vikings so far as their future goes, but I've always thought it very interesting that the new football stadium being built out in Los Angeles has got purple seats.

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Does that have any possible significance RE: the Vikings? I have no idea, but I do find it pretty darn interesting. It's also a really cool and distinctive looking stadium in my opinion, all asymmetrical and terraced right into the hillside like that. http://www.losangelesfootballstadium.com/gallery.html
 

4four4 said:
If the Vikings get a new stadium and rebuild on their current sight where will they play? Surely, the Vikings will play in a 51,000 seat stadium *rolls eyes* I gurantee the Vikings pay for an additional seating plan at TCF.
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The Vikings will play wherever they can. The U would be stupid to add seats to accommodate the Vikings before there is a demand. Not saying the U isn't dumb enough to do it. Just saying there is nothing forcing them to do so. The Vikings have no leverage in that scenario.
 

Los Angeles Stadium is far from being a sure thing. I would rate the chances of the Vikings working out a deal with the LA people and having the stadium built there as significantly lower than getting something done here in MN. Not saying it couldn't happen but I would be very surprised if it did.
 

GoAUpher said:
The Vikings will play wherever they can. The U would be stupid to add seats to accommodate the Vikings before there is a demand. Not saying the U isn't dumb enough to do it. Just saying there is nothing forcing them to do so. The Vikings have no leverage in that scenario.
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I have to believe they have the ability to put temporary seating in that would add 10,000 or more seats.
 



Go4Broke said:
I have to believe they have the ability to put temporary seating in that would add 10,000 or more seats.
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10K is a stretch. The whole student section seats 10K. Where on the open end are you going to fit that many temporary seats?

3K seems more reasonable.
 


GoAUpher said:
10K is a stretch. The whole student section seats 10K. Where on the open end are you going to fit that many temporary seats?

3K seems more reasonable.
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Folding chairs on the roof:;)
 

Seany said:
I don't know what to expect with the Vikings so far as their future goes, but I've always thought it very interesting that the new football stadium being built out in Los Angeles has got purple seats.
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Lakers and Kings both use purple in their colors. Most likely a nod to them.
 

The Vikings are more likely to move to Portland or Birmingham than la at this point
 

GoAUpher said:
The Vikings will play wherever they can. The U would be stupid to add seats to accommodate the Vikings before there is a demand. Not saying the U isn't dumb enough to do it. Just saying there is nothing forcing them to do so. The Vikings have no leverage in that scenario.
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Maybe or maybe not. If the state of Minnesota pays for 2/3rds of a stadium and they go to U and explain to them the Vikings will be your Sunday tenant. I would guess they say sure especially if the Vikings pay out of their own pocket for additional seating.
 

The reason the Vikings can't use tcf longterm is suites not seats.

Any addition to tcf is not cost effective unless the Vikings are there longterm. Which they won't be.
 

Rosemountian said:
The reason the Vikings can't use tcf longterm is suites not seats.

Any addition to tcf is not cost effective unless the Vikings are there longterm. Which they won't be.
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I fully understand the Vikings will not be there long term but the NFL will not let the Vikings play two years with only 51,000 seats. Not going to happen. It is a loss in revenue for the NFL and the Vikings.
 

They can and would let them play there. The state will not pay 100+ million to add another deck that wouldn't be done until the Vikings were ready to Move out anyways. Assuming they could get an addition added in time ( they cant) it would cost the Vikings more than it would make them.

If the Vikings play at tcf for 2 year minimum
Improvements would be made such as a better heating system for field and concessions. Maybe 5-8k temporary seats in the open endzone would be the largest possible addition. Cheap and able to build by next fall.
 

GoAUpher said:
10K is a stretch. The whole student section seats 10K. Where on the open end are you going to fit that many temporary seats?

3K seems more reasonable.
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I would guess that a team of architects and engineers could easily figure out a way to construct temporary stands in the open end of the stadium and along the top of the north and east sides that would easily accommodate 10,000 additional seats.
 

4four4 said:
Maybe or maybe not. If the state of Minnesota pays for 2/3rds of a stadium and they go to U and explain to them the Vikings will be your Sunday tenant. I would guess they say sure especially if the Vikings pay out of their own pocket for additional seating.
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Um, first off, the State didn't pay 2/3rds of the cost. They paid 48% of the cost. That concluded the transaction. The State has no say in how/when/or if the U expands TCF.

Again, I'm not saying the U wouldn't do it if the Vikings paid for it. I'm saying it would be a bad idea since it will simply result in empty seats and reduced demand for Gophers tickets.

Whether the Vikings will want to pay for an expansion will depend on its overall cost. The Vikes will lose approximately $10-$15 million in ticket sales over 2 seasons compared to the Dome. It would seem reasonable to expect that an expansion will cost that much given the overall cost of the facility. So it comes down to just how much an expansion costs. Also, keep in mind that this assumes demand for tickets remains constant (not assured given the team's play and the move to an outdoor stadium without beer). There might not be demand for the current capacity of the Dome which of course alters the financial equation.

Also consider that the U has to consider the implications of a major construction project on campus at that time. Would they be able to complete an expansion in time for the Vikings? How would expanding TCF impact Gophers fans? Etc.
 

Go4Broke said:
I would guess that a team of architects and engineers could easily figure out a way to construct temporary stands in the open end of the stadium and along the top of the north and east sides that would easily accommodate 10,000 additional seats.
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The North and East sides? Seriously? Where in that small walkway that runs around the upper deck would they put the seats? Are you suggesting some erector set stands that protrude outside the current exterior of TCF? Because I'm pretty sure you couldn't safely do anything like that without making it permanent. And that ignores how butt ugly they'd be.

So that leaves the open end. You can't get 2 decks worth of temporary seats in because of the scoreboard. There really is no way to get more than 5K (tops) of temporary seats into the open end.
 

GoAUpher said:
The North and East sides? Seriously? Where in that small walkway that runs around the upper deck would they put the seats? Are you suggesting some erector set stands that protrude outside the current exterior of TCF? Because I'm pretty sure you couldn't safely do anything like that without making it permanent. And that ignores how butt ugly they'd be.

So that leaves the open end. You can't get 2 decks worth of temporary seats in because of the scoreboard. There really is no way to get more than 5K (tops) of temporary seats into the open end.
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Sorry, GoAUpher. I know you like to be right all of the time but it is not working for you on this topic. This is my business. It won't be cheap, and it won't be pretty, but the experts will find a way to do it. And the Vikings will gladly pay the price. It goes without saying that Gopher fans won't be happy until a new Vikings stadium is built and they leave the Gophers Stadium permanently.
 

GoAUpher said:
Um, first off, the State didn't pay 2/3rds of the cost. They paid 48% of the cost. That concluded the transaction. The State has no say in how/when/or if the U expands TCF.
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I didn't say the state paid 2/3rds the cost. I am talking about the Vikings and the state.
 

Go4Broke said:
Sorry, GoAUpher. I know you like to be right all of the time but it is not working for you on this topic. This is my business. It won't be cheap, and it won't be pretty, but the experts will find a way to do it. And the Vikings will gladly pay the price. It goes without saying that Gopher fans won't be happy until a new Vikings stadium is built and they leave the Gophers Stadium permanently.
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I just don't think what you're suggesting makes a lot of sense. I will try to be more neutral on the technical feasibility since that isn't my area of expertise. But the logic of the move is something any Gopher fan should be able to puzzle over easily.

Going back to the technical aspect, I am interested in hearing from you (especially if this is your business) about how would it get done? Saying "the experts" can figure it out isn't much of an answer. I'm not looking for details, just a rough outline of what could be accomplished. Semi-permanent metal framework (a la Beaver Stadium erector set)?

And if it's not pretty, then what is the benefit to the U that would lead them to agree to it? They don't care whether the Vikings lose money for 2 years. So what would be benefit be to putting an eyesore (assuming it would be one) on their beautiful new stadium?
 

4four4 said:
I didn't say the state paid 2/3rds the cost. I am talking about the Vikings and the state.
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Got it. Paying 2/3rds of the cost of the expansion. I was a little confused by that so I should have asked for clarification rather than assuming you were referring to the original TCF bill. I think it still comes down to whether the U is stupid enough to do it then. It'd be a dumb move (marketing/demand wise not initial building cost wise) even if the Vikes covered everything. It's an even dumber move if the U has to pay for some of the cost.
 

GoAUpher said:
I just don't think what you're suggesting makes a lot of sense. I will try to be more neutral on the technical feasibility since that isn't my area of expertise. But the logic of the move is something any Gopher fan should be able to puzzle over easily.

Going back to the technical aspect, I am interested in hearing from you (especially if this is your business) about how would it get done? Saying "the experts" can figure it out isn't much of an answer. I'm not looking for details, just a rough outline of what could be accomplished. Semi-permanent metal framework (a la Beaver Stadium erector set)?

And if it's not pretty, then what is the benefit to the U that would lead them to agree to it? They don't care whether the Vikings lose money for 2 years. So what would be benefit be to putting an eyesore (assuming it would be one) on their beautiful new stadium?
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However the temporary seating ultimately looks like the U is not going to be in a position to say no to it. After all, it will only be for two or three years. This is a state-wide issue and if it means keeping the Vikings or losing them the U will have to agree with whatever the Governor and Legislature want. You need to get over idea that the U can operate independantly of the State. Politics trumps everything when millions of dollars of taxpayer funding is at stake.
 

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