Pharrel Payne visiting Indiana this week.

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DinkyTownIsDead said:
If you took the top 100 players and moved them to the G league, neither ticket sales nor interest would decrease. Duke/Kentucky/UCLA would still get the 101st and 102nd best player. Quality of play would drop, but the draw would still be the same. If people cared about talent as their #1 priority they would NBA fans to begin with.

The universities created this mess themselves by the arms race they began in the 2000's..but no one is forcing these kids to play collegiate ball (at least in basketball). It's a free market.
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False. Interest may not drop a TON.....but it would definitely drop. If the top 100 players joined the G League.....the G League would syphon off NCAA basketball viewers. It's really not debatable.
 


stocker08 said:
So explain why ratings have been up for women's college basketball this year. Explain why Iowa in particular had so much interest. Why teams playing the Fever this year are seeing those games sold out and ticket prices shooting through the roof. Just replace Clark with another player?

Your take here is fantastically idiotic. Sure.....diehard fans like us who post on the team's message boards might not drop off and continue to watch. But the casual sports fans won't. They'll find something else to watch. The players and the product.....and if the product sucks.....most people will spend their money elsewhere. To say otherwise is ridiculous.
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There's nothing to explain or talk about.

You're simply too stupid or delusional to understand a basic simple fact.
 

stocker08 said:
False. Interest may not drop a TON.....but it would definitely drop. If the top 100 players joined the G League.....the G League would syphon off NCAA basketball viewers. It's really not debatable.
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Yes it is.

The G league is already taking many of the top players. How many G league games have you watched?
 

stocker08 said:
So explain why ratings have been up for women's college basketball this year. Explain why Iowa in particular had so much interest. Why teams playing the Fever this year are seeing those games sold out and ticket prices shooting through the roof. Just replace Clark with another player?

Your take here is fantastically idiotic. Sure.....diehard fans like us who post on the team's message boards might not drop off and continue to watch. But the casual sports fans won't. They'll find something else to watch. The players and the product.....and if the product sucks.....most people will spend their money elsewhere. To say otherwise is ridiculous.
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I'd argue the opposite. casual fans do not know the star ratings of the players. If their team has a player dominating they are going to show up. If the 5* talent pool is in the G league, then it will be the 4 stars dominating the 3 stars instead of the 5 stars dominating the 4 stars.

In the transfer world we live in only the most dedicated fans can even track who the hell is on the team these days. So why do they care? The name that is on the FRONT of the jersey, not the back.
 


DinkyTownIsDead said:
I'd argue the opposite. casual fans do not know the star ratings of the players. If their team has a player dominating they are going to show up. If the 5* talent pool is in the G league, then it will be the 4 stars dominating the 3 stars instead of the 5 stars dominating the 4 stars.

In the transfer world we live in only the most dedicated fans can even track who the hell is on the team these days. So why do they care? The name that is on the FRONT of the jersey, not the back.
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The truth is that the new system will hurt college basketball but those college basketball fans will likely not transfer over to the G-League at a large rate.
 






Dakota2 said:
Are G League games televised? Widely?
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Not yet. But I could definitely see it happening sometime in the near future. I've seen Overtime Elite games televised.

EasyThere Pilgrim said:
There's nothing to explain or talk about.

You're simply too stupid or delusional to understand a basic simple fact.
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Says the guy who's sidestepped every opportunity to explain the popularity boost of the Iowa women's team this year. Or how LIV golf has cut into PGA viewership.

Saying that the players don't have any impact is downright idiotic.
 


stocker08 said:
Not yet. But I could definitely see it happening sometime in the near future. I've seen Overtime Elite games televised.



Says the guy who's sidestepped every opportunity to explain the popularity boost of the Iowa women's team this year. Or how LIV golf has cut into PGA viewership.

Saying that the players don't have any impact is downright idiotic.
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The G-League and other minor-leagues will always have a small audience and never generate money.

Caitlyn Clark would have much less audience on a minor-league pro team.

Golf...what ratings do the minor circuits have?
 

My view is that the highest tier of each level will get the most viewership, while lower tiers usually don't carry much fandom.

High School: big schools
College: D1 power conferences
Pro: Highest league (NHL, NBA, MLB, NFL)

None of the lower tiers of any of these levels have large fan bases that create much demand for the product. G league or any other minor league will never have more fandom than it's corresponding high level D1 product.
 



EasyThere Pilgrim said:
The G-League and other minor-leagues will always have a small audience and never generate money.

Caitlyn Clark would have much less audience on a minor-league pro team.

Golf...what ratings do the minor circuits have?
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You are completely missing the point. Clark was a major draw this year....and looks like her popularity is carrying over to the WNBA. You've been saying that players don't matter when it comes to revenue and viewership and I'm saying that's nonsense. Great players absolutely draw in casual fans. My point with the PGA and LIV is that when you break great players off into different leagues, you end up breaking viewership off. PGA has seen lower ratings since LIV has started.

Now if you want to make the argument that college players are being overvalued in the current NIL landscape, I'd 100% agree with that. But to say that the players bring NO value over worse replacement players is nonsense. Good/great players improve the product. Might not make a difference to diehard fans....but it definitely does when it comes to more casual or bandwagon fans.
 

stocker08 said:
You are completely missing the point. Clark was a major draw this year....and looks like her popularity is carrying over to the WNBA. You've been saying that players don't matter when it comes to revenue and viewership and I'm saying that's nonsense. Great players absolutely draw in casual fans. My point with the PGA and LIV is that when you break great players off into different leagues, you end up breaking viewership off. PGA has seen lower ratings since LIV has started.

Now if you want to make the argument that college players are being overvalued in the current NIL landscape, I'd 100% agree with that. But to say that the players bring NO value over worse replacement players is nonsense. Good/great players improve the product. Might not make a difference to diehard fans....but it definitely does when it comes to more casual or bandwagon fans.
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A Caitlyn Clark / Angel Reese rivalry can boost the ratings of a non-money-generating league. A few women with a social-media following can boost women's sports.

But the NBA and D1 men's college basketball don't need saviors.
 

DinkyTownIsDead said:
Yes it is.

The G league is already taking many of the top players. How many G league games have you watched?
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I don't know about "many." Seems like a clear majority of the top players still attend college for at least a year. Of the 58 players drafted in 2023, only 6 came from the G League or the Overtime Elite league. Another 6 came from overseas leagues. If anything, I think the current NIL landscape will continue to make college (for at least a year or two) an attractive option.
 

GopherPete said:
My view is that the highest tier of each level will get the most viewership, while lower tiers usually don't carry much fandom.

High School: big schools
College: D1 power conferences
Pro: Highest league (NHL, NBA, MLB, NFL)

None of the lower tiers of any of these levels have large fan bases that create much demand for the product. G league or any other minor league will never have more fandom than it's corresponding high level D1 product.
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That should read big schools and prep schools. Remember that many of the top players now play at prep schools for at least a year and those schools tend to play in a lot of tournaments with other elite preps.
 

TwistingMyMelon said:
I don't know about "many." Seems like a clear majority of the top players still attend college for at least a year. Of the 58 players drafted in 2023, only 6 came from the G League or the Overtime Elite league. Another 6 came from overseas leagues. If anything, I think the current NIL landscape will continue to make college (for at least a year or two) an attractive option.
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And there are guys that just aren't cut out to go to college. I find it interesting that you don't hear about guys not getting admitted to schools as a result of academics. I wonder if that is some of the guys who end up in the G league???
 

TwistingMyMelon said:
That should read big schools and prep schools. Remember that many of the top players now play at prep schools for at least a year and those schools tend to play in a lot of tournaments with other elite preps.
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Do prep schools have fans outside of family? They certainly don't have community backing like a local high school would have, right?
 

EasyThere Pilgrim said:
A Caitlyn Clark / Angel Reese rivalry can boost the ratings of a non-money-generating league. A few women with a social-media following can boost women's sports.

But the NBA and D1 men's college basketball don't need saviors.
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That was just one example of it happening on a larger scale. To assume that there is no interest from fans of other teams in top players playing in the NCAA is simply false. Take Caleb Williams for example. Do you think that there aren't people who have tuned into a USC game the past couple years to see him play? On a smaller scale.....do you think that there aren't casual fans who may tune into a Gophers game to watch someone like Garcia, Payne, Hawkins, Christie, etc.....? I know a lot of bandwagon fans that completely ignore the team when they are terrible, yet watched more games this year. Individual players can absolutely drive interest.
 

GopherPete said:
Do prep schools have fans outside of family? They certainly don't have community backing like a local high school would have, right?
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They are televised or streamed reasonably frequently and their elite tournaments are well attended by scouts and coaches.
 

stocker08 said:
Not yet. But I could definitely see it happening sometime in the near future. I've seen Overtime Elite games televised.



Says the guy who's sidestepped every opportunity to explain the popularity boost of the Iowa women's team this year. Or how LIV golf has cut into PGA viewership.

Saying that the players don't have any impact is downright idiotic.
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I don't think Iowa womens basketball or LIV golf are good examples.

Caitlin got (deservedly) more media attention than any female athlete in history. Iowa and the womens' game benefited from that but it is a kind of one off at the moment.

Pro golfers are their own franchise. They are not affiliated with schools or traditional fan bases. They are famous and followed by golf fans for their personal achievements and personalities.

If every Big Ten football team lost their ten best players to a minor league, the Big House and Horseshoe would still have more than 100,000 fans each game. College fans are loyal to their schools. Players come and go.
 

Dakota2 said:
I don't think Iowa womens basketball or LIV golf are good examples.

Caitlin got (deservedly) more media attention than any female athlete in history. Iowa and the womens' game benefited from that but it is a kind of one off at the moment.

Pro golfers are their own franchise. They are not affiliated with schools or traditional fan bases. They are famous and followed by golf fans for their personal achievements and personalities.

If every Big Ten football team lost their ten best players to a minor league, the Big House and Horseshoe would still have more than 100,000 fans each game. College fans are loyal to their schools. Players come and go.
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But I'm not simply talking about game attendance. I've already stated that there are plenty of people who are loyal to their teams. I'm referring to casual fans and overall viewership. The media contract are what net schools the big $$$$. You remove enough talent (the players)....and the product gets worse....and there are less players to market.
 

stocker08 said:
But I'm not simply talking about game attendance. I've already stated that there are plenty of people who are loyal to their teams. I'm referring to casual fans and overall viewership. The media contract are what net schools the big $$$$. You remove enough talent (the players)....and the product gets worse....and there are less players to market.
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This because Payne visited Indiana
 

Holy Man said:
By talent, of course. By interest, I don't think so. How many minor league teams have passionate fan bases or big TV contracts? College sports is driven by school allegiance as much as quality of play.
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You're probably right, dumb post by me. The allegiance combined with gambling is a machine that would be tough to take down.
 

stocker08 said:
But I'm not simply talking about game attendance. I've already stated that there are plenty of people who are loyal to their teams. I'm referring to casual fans and overall viewership. The media contract are what net schools the big $$$$. You remove enough talent (the players)....and the product gets worse....and there are less players to market.
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I do understand what you are saying and don't entirely disagree. But I don't think it is an observable difference to college fans if some of the best players are not on the court or field and are replaced by guys only marginally less talented.

If a competitive basketball game is won on a buzzer beater fans are entertained and think it was a great game. Most don't care that the shot was made by a former three star recruit rather than a former four star recruit. Most fans don't know the difference anyway simply because there is not much difference.
 

Dakota2 said:
I do understand what you are saying and don't entirely disagree. But I don't think it is an observable difference to college fans if some of the best players are not on the court or field and are replaced by guys only marginally less talented.

If a competitive basketball game is won on a buzzer beater fans are entertained and think it was a great game. Most don't care that the shot was made by a former three star recruit rather than a former four star recruit. Most fans don't know the difference anyway simply because there is not much difference.
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Yeah....I never meant to make it sound like the NCAA would completely fall off or anything like that. However....if NIL weren't a thing and players weren't getting paid....I do think that MANY more of the most talented players would go the G-League or Overtime Elite path. Steal away enough of the top talent and I have no doubt that fans who don't really have an allegiance to a team start watching those leagues instead.
 

stocker08 said:
Yeah....I never meant to make it sound like the NCAA would completely fall off or anything like that. However....if NIL weren't a thing and players weren't getting paid....I do think that MANY more of the most talented players would go the G-League or Overtime Elite path. Steal away enough of the top talent and I have no doubt that fans who don't really have an allegiance to a team start watching those leagues instead.
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Maybe you're right. I have no idea how much money NBA teams are spending to run their minor league. Got nothing against it or for it.
 

stocker08 said:
That was just one example of it happening on a larger scale. To assume that there is no interest from fans of other teams in top players playing in the NCAA is simply false. Take Caleb Williams for example. Do you think that there aren't people who have tuned into a USC game the past couple years to see him play? On a smaller scale.....do you think that there aren't casual fans who may tune into a Gophers game to watch someone like Garcia, Payne, Hawkins, Christie, etc.....? I know a lot of bandwagon fans that completely ignore the team when they are terrible, yet watched more games this year. Individual players can absolutely drive interest.
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NOBODY watches a USC game to see the mechanics of Caleb Williams' throwing motion.

NOBODY watches a Gophers basketball game to see the talents of the players.

The money is generated because we like the schools. The games. Without the school logo...there is no money.
 


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