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TheDinkytowner

TheDinkytowner

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I think that makes us homecoming opponents for both OSU and PSU, but at least both are day games.

June 8, 2009
UNIVERSITY PARK, Pa. - Penn State's Homecoming clash with Minnesota is set for a 3:30 p.m. kick on Oct. 17 in Beaver Stadium, the Nittany Lions' third announced start time for the 2009 season. The contest with the Golden Gophers will be an ABC regional telecast, with ESPN or ESPN2 airing it in the rest of the nation. The Nittany Lions and Golden Gophers will be meeting for the first time since Penn State captured a 28-27 overtime win in 2006 in Minneapolis. The Lions lead the series, 6-4.
 



Yep, that 2006 game was a rip-off.
 

This will be our first visit back there since Brandon Owens' injury. Yuck.
 








That pissed me off to no end. One of the few times you can point to officiating as 100% the reason we lost a game. Why isn't replay allowed on penalties, btw (just in general, not only college).
 



RailBaronYarr said:
That pissed me off to no end. One of the few times you can point to officiating as 100% the reason we lost a game. Why isn't replay allowed on penalties, btw (just in general, not only college).
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For one the games would all take 5 hours and if they do that you might as well not even have refs.
________
M73
 



GopherFan75 said:
For one the games would all take 5 hours and if they do that you might as well not even have refs.
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I'm sure someone could come up with a way to make some (not all) penalties reviewable and keep the use of review regulated to keep game speed up.
 

GoAUpher said:
I'm sure someone could come up with a way to make some (not all) penalties reviewable and keep the use of review regulated to keep game speed up.
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There's just no way to get enough cameras close enough to the action. Say what you will about that particular call against PSU, but that zebra was in perfect position so he KNEW that it wasn't pass interference.

Clean breakup. Pass incomplete. Game over. Gophers win.

Wait...what?
 

BrianW said:
There's just no way to get enough cameras close enough to the action. Say what you will about that particular call against PSU, but that zebra was in perfect position so he KNEW that it wasn't pass interference.

Clean breakup. Pass incomplete. Game over. Gophers win.

Wait...what?
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That makes no sense. These are the same cameras that get used to review fumbles and everything else. Its not like they get magically repositioned for the current reviews. If the angles suck for penalties then they suck for fumbles. As far as how do you overturn the call. the same rules used now could apply (i.e. definitive proof would be required for the booth to overturn the call on the field). I'm not saying that the actual review of penalties wouldn't be tough to do. In fact, that's probably the best reason to avoid going this route...how do you definitively overrule a subjective call? I'm just saying if you wanted penalties to be reviewable setting up the rules for what gets reviewed/when a call can be reviewed should be a fairly straightforward process.
 

AU, you're right of course.

What I was trying to get at was the subjective element. Certain things (did his foot step on the sideline? did the ball hit the ground?) are more or less straightforward either/or calls that a camera can get right.

When you start getting into the subjective stuff (was that pass interference? was that roughing or running into the kicker? etc) there is just no way the officials will buy into any system where a camera located 100+ feet away gets to overrule the call they made while standing 2 feet from the action. If you try to force such a system on them, you'll end up with a situation where they just drop the flag on every even marginal play and force a booth review. Welcome to college football, where 60 minutes of game action takes 4 and a half hours to complete, on a good day!

Plus, some of this stuff is truly subjective and a judgment call. Who's to say that the judgment of a retired official in the booth is better than that of the guy on the field? Sure, it might be a different judgment, but not necessarily a better one. I think the preference of the league would be for the guy on the field to just make that call. That's why he's there.

We're off on a tangent here, but after watching a lot of Big Ten football over the past 20 years I can say the following things are definitely true:

1) The level of understanding among Big Ten officials as to what constitutes pass interference and what does not is best described by the phrase EPIC FAIL. I don't know if this is a training issue or what, but the way that games are called is significantly at variance with the way the rule is written.

2) The way these calls are made has as much to do with who is playing as with the actual action on the field. There's a hierarchy in the Big Ten; I don't know whether this is enforced by the league office or just something the zebras do on their own. On a close play, if you are Penn State and you are playing Minnesota you ALWAYS get the call. Conversely, if you are Penn State and you are playing Michigan you NEVER get the call. I always get a kick from going to the PSU boards where they are all absolutely convinced that the officials are against them. This despite the fact that they have been handed two wins against the Gophers by ridiculous PI calls.
 

BrianW said:
What I was trying to get at was the subjective element. Certain things (did his foot step on the sideline? did the ball hit the ground?) are more or less straightforward either/or calls that a camera can get right.

When you start getting into the subjective stuff (was that pass interference? was that roughing or running into the kicker? etc) there is just no way the officials will buy into any system where a camera located 100+ feet away gets to overrule the call they made while standing 2 feet from the action. If you try to force such a system on them, you'll end up with a situation where they just drop the flag on every even marginal play and force a booth review. Welcome to college football, where 60 minutes of game action takes 4 and a half hours to complete, on a good day!

Plus, some of this stuff is truly subjective and a judgment call. Who's to say that the judgment of a retired official in the booth is better than that of the guy on the field? Sure, it might be a different judgment, but not necessarily a better one. I think the preference of the league would be for the guy on the field to just make that call. That's why he's there.
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In total agreement with you and I think your last sentence sums it up.
 

In the 2006 Penn state game, didn't Gianini miss multiple field goals/extra points?
If I recall correctly, he missed an extra point in overtime, right?

The call was questionable, that is the nature of football, but its hard to blame the refs when you miss kicks.
 

I agree that we could have done certain things throughout the game to win it, but at the end of the game, we made a clean play to win it, and the ref botched that call 100%. That was my point. Penn State also could have done other things throughout the game to not have forced that call to affect the game, but they didn't either.

I'm not advocating replay on every official's penalty call. I agree many are subjective and not as easy to determine as "did the fumble leave before he hit the ground" or "did the ball cross the plane." But there are some penalties that are cut and dry, such as pass interference by contact - that could be challenged along with the one you get for the other challenges. If an official's vision/judgment can be called in to question for placement of the ball, valid catches, endzone crossing, etc. then I don't see why it would hurt to have them checked on penalties as well.
 

RailBaronYarr said:
I agree that we could have done certain things throughout the game to win it, but at the end of the game, we made a clean play to win it, and the ref botched that call 100%. That was my point. Penn State also could have done other things throughout the game to not have forced that call to affect the game, but they didn't either.

I'm not advocating replay on every official's penalty call. I agree many are subjective and not as easy to determine as "did the fumble leave before he hit the ground" or "did the ball cross the plane." But there are some penalties that are cut and dry, such as pass interference by contact - that could be challenged along with the one you get for the other challenges. If an official's vision/judgment can be called in to question for placement of the ball, valid catches, endzone crossing, etc. then I don't see why it would hurt to have them checked on penalties as well.
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There is almost always contact of some kind on plays where the receiver is pretty well covered. But how much contact is too much? Its still a subjective call.
 

GoAUpher said:
But how much contact is too much? Its still a subjective call.
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I have noticed that a person's answer to that question hinges on wheather they are:

1.) Primarily a fan of football, or
2.) Mostly like basketball
 

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