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Gopherbbdude

Gopherbbdude

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Those that think Payne should play more.... who do u take out to get him more time??? Remember only position he plays is the 5 IMO.
 

He can come in when we need to take Battle/Garcia off the court, but I would imagine both of them are guaranteed 30-35 mins per night, so where do you go from there? They have played lineups with a Center and Battle/Garcia on the floor. We closed out yesterday's game with Thompson in that role, but then will we have to play zone with less guards on the court and less overall foot speed in an area we are already lacking in? I really like the lineup of Cooper/Carrington/Battle/Garcia/Payne, so that would result in JOJ/Samuels/Henley/Thompson getting less minutes. We are basically stuck playing 2 guards and 3 forwards with most lineups due to our roster so I don't see why not!
 

Gopherbbdude said:
Those that think Payne should play more.... who do u take out to get him more time??? Remember only position he plays is the 5 IMO.
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I think at this point, you play your best guys and find ways to put them in spots that will be successful. There is no doubt that Payne is the 5. Garcia wants to be a 4 anyway. Battle has the foot speed of a 4 but needs to play at the 3 to accomodate. Carrington is your best 2 and Cooper is the PG. Ola Joseph is a great energy 3-4 combo. Henley can back up Carrington and Samuels can spell Cooper. Thompson can give Payne a few minutes rest or cover in the case of fouls.

This isn't that hard. We stink right now. If we want to be better by later in the season that's the 5 you need to roll with.
 

Gopherbbdude said:
Those that think Payne should play more.... who do u take out to get him more time??? Remember only position he plays is the 5 IMO.
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The rotation should be pretty easy - IMO

C: Garcia (15) - Payne (27) - Thompson (8)
PF: Battle (25) - Garcia (15)
SF: Olo-Joseph (20) - Battle (10) - Carrington (5) - Henley (5)
SG: Carrington (20) - Henley (15) - Samuels (5)
PG: Cooper (33) - Samuels (7)

Total Minutes:
Battle - 35
Cooper - 33
Garcia - 30
Payne - 27
Carrington - 25
Olo-Joseph 20
Henley - 20
Samuels - 12
Thompson - 8

We should probably also mix in Ramberg for 5-10 (pull some minutes from Olo-Joseph, Henley, and Samuels.

Payne should never be under 20 minutes per game.
If their is foul trouble, Thompson should get more.

Obviously, reasonable people could disagree with how I broke it down, but something along those lines makes sense to me. I just don't see it being difficult to find 25+ minutes for him.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
The rotation should be pretty easy - IMO

C: Garcia (15) - Payne (27) - Thompson (8)
PF: Battle (25) - Garcia (15)
SF: Olo-Joseph (20) - Battle (10) - Carrington (5) - Henley (5)
SG: Carrington (20) - Henley (15) - Samuels (5)
PG: Cooper (33) - Samuels (7)

Total Minutes:
Battle - 35
Cooper - 33
Garcia - 30
Payne - 27
Carrington - 25
Olo-Joseph 20
Henley - 20
Samuels - 12
Thompson - 8

We should probably also mix in Ramberg for 5-10 (pull some minutes from Olo-Joseph, Henley, and Samuels.

Payne should never be under 20 minutes per game.
If their is foul trouble, Thompson should get more.

Obviously, reasonable people could disagree with how I broke it down, but something along those lines makes sense to me. I just don't see it being difficult to find 25+ minutes for him.
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The minutes are good. I wouldn't put that super soft lineup on the floor together of Garcia, Battle at the 4/5. They get chewed up on defense and the boards.
 



They need to start him or watch him leave at the end of the year.

I’d argue that Thompson should be a SF and not a PF or C. In modern basketball just because you are tall does not mean you are a center. Thompson is extremely mobile for that size and has shown decent handles and range. We know he can’t guard big men with beef, but he may be able to stay in front of SFs with his mobility and length.
 

Payne has a combined 25 minutes the last 2 games. This is unacceptable at every level. Ben had been too clever by half all season w Payne. Should have been starting all along. He’s now got his best recruit in the class scrambled mentally about what he’s doing wrong and who knows if he’ll recover. Equally sad and stupid. If he transfers he’ll be absolutely justified and it will rightly be laid at Ben’s feet 100%. Again, Ben, stop over thinking it. Play your best players. So needlessly painful. Never seen anything like it.
 

bga1 said:
I think at this point, you play your best guys and find ways to put them in spots that will be successful. There is no doubt that Payne is the 5. Garcia wants to be a 4 anyway. Battle has the foot speed of a 4 but needs to play at the 3 to accomodate. Carrington is your best 2 and Cooper is the PG. Ola Joseph is a great energy 3-4 combo. Henley can back up Carrington and Samuels can spell Cooper. Thompson can give Payne a few minutes rest or cover in the case of fouls.

This isn't that hard. We stink right now. If we want to be better by later in the season that's the 5 you need to roll with.
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And as the game progresses and subs rotate in, either Battle or Garcia need to be in the game. Unless it’s a horrible foul situation one of those two have to be in the game. To keep on topic, yes, start Payne.
 




Holf2 said:
Payne has a combined 25 minutes the last 2 games. This is unacceptable at every level. Ben had been too clever by half all season w Payne. Should have been starting all along. He’s now got his best recruit in the class scrambled mentally about what he’s doing wrong and who knows if he’ll recover. Equally sad and stupid. If he transfers he’ll be absolutely justified and it will rightly be laid at Ben’s feet 100%. Again, Ben, stop over thinking it. Play your best players. So needlessly painful. Never seen anything like it.
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Are we sure he is “scrambled mentally” and not dealing with an injury from the hard fall he took? I don’t disagree he needs more minutes. Just wondering where your analysis comes from. I may have missed a comment or something from Payne.
 

Wet_Blanket_Guy said:
They need to start him or watch him leave at the end of the year.

I’d argue that Thompson should be a SF and not a PF or C. In modern basketball just because you are tall does not mean you are a center. Thompson is extremely mobile for that size and has shown decent handles and range. We know he can’t guard big men with beef, but he may be able to stay in front of SFs with his mobility and length.
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I say really show your comment to position-less basketball and put TT at point guard. Let the straw really stir the drink.
 

UpAndUnder43 said:
Are we sure he is “scrambled mentally” and not dealing with an injury from the hard fall he took? I don’t disagree he needs more minutes. Just wondering where your analysis comes from. I may have missed a comment or something from Payne.
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I criticize and I think justly and honestly but playing time is one place I don’t go. We don’t have the complete picture. Coaching staff does. Payne has by far the greatest potential, but we have no idea why he’s not playing, so Ben gets the benefit of the doubt.
 



Of course I want Payne starting by mid-season. 20 minutes per game is okay for now though.

I'd like to see all the freshmen's minutes up a little as the season goes.
 

Just watched the last game back and Payne was rightfully yanked in the second half. He was not taking care of the ball and couldn't hit free throws. Not confident he can get more minutes if he isn't more consistent at the line. Credit to Ben for recognizing this and putting in TT. Garcia has more room to work on the low block as well with TT on the court as he poses some threat from outside.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
The rotation should be pretty easy - IMO

C: Garcia (15) - Payne (27) - Thompson (8)
PF: Battle (25) - Garcia (15)
SF: Olo-Joseph (20) - Battle (10) - Carrington (5) - Henley (5)
SG: Carrington (20) - Henley (15) - Samuels (5)
PG: Cooper (33) - Samuels (7)

Total Minutes:
Battle - 35
Cooper - 33
Garcia - 30
Payne - 27
Carrington - 25
Olo-Joseph 20
Henley - 20
Samuels - 12
Thompson - 8

We should probably also mix in Ramberg for 5-10 (pull some minutes from Olo-Joseph, Henley, and Samuels.

Payne should never be under 20 minutes per game.
If their is foul trouble, Thompson should get more.

Obviously, reasonable people could disagree with how I broke it down, but something along those lines makes sense to me. I just don't see it being difficult to find 25+ minutes for him.
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Your breakdown is good assuming Payne is 100%. I don't think that is the case. I think he is nursing some kind of back or hip ailment. I just can't see any other explanation for limiting him to 12 minutes against teams he can dominate.
 

Dakota2 said:
Your breakdown is good assuming Payne is 100%. I don't think that is the case. I think he is nursing some kind of back or hip ailment. I just can't see any other explanation for limiting him to 12 minutes against teams he can dominate.
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He made a move under the basket that you don't make with an ailment. If he was hurting, why wouldn't Ben have just sat him the whole game?
 

bga1 said:
He made a move under the basket that you don't make with an ailment. If he was hurting, why wouldn't Ben have just sat him the whole game?
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With a minor nagging issue, sitting a game might not help much. It could be something that hangs around. In the meantime Ben is trying to get him as much development time as possible without pushing it too far.
 

I'm sure Ben understands his ailments. We are just guessing what's going on. I'm sure Ben has a better idea than us coaches.
 

Payne could have some sort of ailment but Ben has made comments he doesn't play more because he's not doing what Ben wants him to do on the court. Ben has commented at least twice about this. Specifics? I have none.
 

60's Guy said:
Payne could have some sort of ailment but Ben has made comments he doesn't play more because he's not doing what Ben wants him to do on the court. Ben has commented at least twice about this. Specifics? I have none.
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Payne is clearly our best rebounder but has turnover issues and is shooting under 50 percent from the line. That could be part of it.
 

Wet_Blanket_Guy said:
They need to start him or watch him leave at the end of the year.

I’d argue that Thompson should be a SF and not a PF or C. In modern basketball just because you are tall does not mean you are a center. Thompson is extremely mobile for that size and has shown decent handles and range. We know he can’t guard big men with beef, but he may be able to stay in front of SFs with his mobility and length.
Click to expand...
National media says gophers need to watch out for transfer envy sense they are so bad…

Big Ten Basketball: Power Ratings Ranked by Science
 

Holf2 said:
Payne has a combined 25 minutes the last 2 games. This is unacceptable at every level. Ben had been too clever by half all season w Payne. Should have been starting all along. He’s now got his best recruit in the class scrambled mentally about what he’s doing wrong and who knows if he’ll recover. Equally sad and stupid. If he transfers he’ll be absolutely justified and it will rightly be laid at Ben’s feet 100%. Again, Ben, stop over thinking it. Play your best players. So needlessly painful. Never seen anything like it.
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I believe Payne was on the bench because he was a liability with his poor free throw shooting. They were trying to lock down the easy shots from him since our overall shooting and offense was otherwise poor and a low scoring game. We needed people that are efficient on the floor and that won't turn the ball over, and if sent to the line, have a probability of making free throws that was roughly equivalent to making a regular shot. Payne is a high percentage shooter in the paint 73%, and abhorrent at the free throw line 40%, so teams would be foolish not to take the chance at fouling him in the paint when he gets the ball. If he is sent to the line he essentially has a 16% chance of making both shots whereas 73% otherwise. If a 75% FT shooter gets fouled he has ~56% chance of getting both points. This is when it is a more difficult decision to foul or not.

Ben is making the right decision as far as I am concerned if Payne is being guarded heavily or not dishing the ball to others for open looks. Payne's and the team's poor free throw shooting are killing us as much as our youth and inexperience. This will be the thing that would potentially make our season worse than last year, in the B1G.
 
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Dakota2 said:
Your breakdown is good assuming Payne is 100%. I don't think that is the case. I think he is nursing some kind of back or hip ailment. I just can't see any other explanation for limiting him to 12 minutes against teams he can dominate.
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Your breakdown has 50 minutes at the center position, need to cut somebody’s down
 

MNJay said:
As long as we keep our freshmen & recruits, I'm happy. I want to build a base from the bottom up.

If our freshmen or recruits are bribed away by other teams...to me, you'd have to be a fool to keep watching college basketball.
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Remind me how we got Battle, Garcia, Cooper, Parker Fox, (essentially our entire team last year), and samuels…

Those guys were some coaches / programs recruits and freshman at one point in time.
 

Wet_Blanket_Guy said:
Remind me how we got Battle, Garcia, Cooper, Parker Fox, (essentially our entire team last year), and samuels…

Those guys were some coaches / programs recruits and freshman at one point in time.
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We didn't bribe them away with money.
 

MNJay said:
We didn't bribe them away with money.
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What comes first, the playing time or the NIL deal? Does it really matter what they leave for…a transfer is a transfer. At the end of the day, a player will view the move as better for him (whether basketball related or financial *now with NIL), this is now part of NCAA sports whether you like it or not.
 

60's Guy said:
Payne could have some sort of ailment but Ben has made comments he doesn't play more because he's not doing what Ben wants him to do on the court. Ben has commented at least twice about this. Specifics? I have none.
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That's as good a guess as any. On the other hand Ben has cut Henley's playing time significantly for performance issues but has not to my knowledge said so publicly.
 

GopherBlood666 said:
Payne is clearly our best rebounder but has turnover issues and is shooting under 50 percent from the line. That could be part of it.
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Here is the thing: We are playing this year to learn from experience at this point. We aren't going to win very many games no matter who we put out there. If I am going to lose, I am going to lose it with Payne getting experience. Pull him out every 3-4 minutes to teach him what he is doing wrong but get him back out there to get the time to improve.
 

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