Pat Forde: Fleck's passing game left town with Tyler Johnson and Rashod Bateman, and it hasn't come back

Donate To GopherHole
WindyCityGopher

WindyCityGopher

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 8, 2013
Messages
3,799
Reaction score
2,890
Points
113

Coach Who Should Drive the Bus to Work​

P.J. Fleck (39), Minnesota. Here’s what Fleck did in the fourth quarter at North Carolina on Saturday while trailing the Tar Heels by 11 points: punted from the North Carolina 43 on fourth-and-9, then punted from the Minnesota 40 on fourth-and-3. At some point, you have to try to win the game, right? Of course, it’s understandable that Fleck had no faith in his team’s passing game, which is last in the Big Ten in efficiency by a wide margin.

That continues a trend. Minnesota threw 31 touchdown passes in 13 games in 2019. In the 36 games since then, it has thrown 32 TD passes. Fleck’s passing game left town with Tyler Johnson and Rashod Bateman, and it hasn’t come back.

 


WindyCityGopher said:

Coach Who Should Drive the Bus to Work​

P.J. Fleck (39), Minnesota. Here’s what Fleck did in the fourth quarter at North Carolina on Saturday while trailing the Tar Heels by 11 points: punted from the North Carolina 43 on fourth-and-9, then punted from the Minnesota 40 on fourth-and-3. At some point, you have to try to win the game, right? Of course, it’s understandable that Fleck had no faith in his team’s passing game, which is last in the Big Ten in efficiency by a wide margin.

That continues a trend. Minnesota threw 31 touchdown passes in 13 games in 2019. In the 36 games since then, it has thrown 32 TD passes. Fleck’s passing game left town with Tyler Johnson and Rashod Bateman, and it hasn’t come back.

Click to expand...

Hard to argue with Forde here. Sometimes the truth hurts. We need to figure it out and quickly. But hard to do in-season, as we can't upgrade the talent.

Go Gophers!!
 


Teams will continue to make us beat them through the air, loading the box against our running attack, putting us in all those 2nd-and-8, -9, positions we’ve been in too many times.

What will help our aerial attack? Commitment to - and subsequently, and by doing, so improving - the aerial attack.

We need to “see the ball go in the hole” several times to build confidence, methinks. Good that we are playing the Cats this week - and not the Hawks, or Nittanies.
 


Coach was a receiver. Also served as a receivers coach in pro’s and college levels. Like the article said, had Bateman and Johnson for the big year. Sure looked promising.
 

I know we're about ball control and time of possession, and don't think we should get away from that. But I really think for the passing game a little bit of hurry up would help a lot. Or at the very least once in awhile when we get lined up so early, just run the play called right away. We line up for so long and give the defense time to react to the formation.

I don't think I'm going out on a limb here to say we're pretty predictable in what we're doing sometimes.
 

GophersInIowa said:
I know we're about ball control and time of possession, and don't think we should get away from that. But I really think for the passing game a little bit of hurry up would help a lot. Or at the very least once in awhile when we get lined up so early, just run the play called right away. We line up for so long and give the defense time to react to the formation.

I don't think I'm going out on a limb here to say we're pretty predictable in what we're doing sometimes.
Click to expand...
Never more transparent when Minnesota had the ball at the NC 5 or 6 yard line and brought in the "heavy" package (or whatever they are calling it) in. NC knew what was coming and stopped it dead, twice. Unless you are on the 1, I want the "usual" set to keep them guessing to a degree.
 

I wonder too if beyond the WR talent drop off, D coordinators have just gotten better at defending the RPO slant. We rarely seem to run it anymore, and I can’t imagine it’s only because we have a Crooms or Brockington instead of TJ/Bateman.
 




SPEGOPHER said:
I wonder too if beyond the WR talent drop off, D coordinators have just gotten better at defending the RPO slant. We rarely seem to run it anymore, and I can’t imagine it’s only because we have a Crooms or Brockington instead of TJ/Bateman.
Click to expand...
I think we run it quite a bit - at least variations. The issue is the 100 mph fast balls AK is throwing at them. Speed and timing need to be adjusted by all parties involved but holy crap that kid zings it too hard sometimes.
 

Vandy said:
Never more transparent when Minnesota had the ball at the NC 5 or 6 yard line and brought in the "heavy" package (or whatever they are calling it) in. NC knew what was coming and stopped it dead, twice. Unless you are on the 1, I want the "usual" set to keep them guessing to a degree.
Click to expand...
Or come out in what looks like the Heavy package and then split the TE and RB out.
 

Buck_Buchanan said:
I think we run it quite a bit - at least variations. The issue is the 100 mph fast balls AK is throwing at them. Speed and timing need to be adjusted by all parties involved but holy crap that kid zings it too hard sometimes.
Click to expand...
I have to think they are not dropping those in practice, unless he shows touch there but not in games? Someone did a pass by pass breakdown and other than those he just missed on, the other drops looked very catchable. I felt the same watching in person...catchable. My point being, they know the passes are coming in hot.
 



GophersInIowa said:
I know we're about ball control and time of possession, and don't think we should get away from that. But I really think for the passing game a little bit of hurry up would help a lot. Or at the very least once in awhile when we get lined up so early, just run the play called right away. We line up for so long and give the defense time to react to the formation.

I don't think I'm going out on a limb here to say we're pretty predictable in what we're doing sometimes.
Click to expand...
We did a couple of hurry ups against Nebraska that I liked. One was perfectly executed except AK missed a wide open Brockington.
 

PMWinSTP said:
I have to think they are not dropping those in practice, unless he shows touch there but not in games? Someone did a pass by pass breakdown and other than those he just missed on, the other drops looked very catchable. I felt the same watching in person...catchable. My point being, they know the passes are coming in hot.
Click to expand...

Hot passes aren't always catchable even if you know they're coming. Every pass shouldn't be a 100 mph fastball. AK needs to deliver with more touch. This is Joe Milton's problem and why he didn't work out at Michigan. Great athlete, rocket arm, 0 touch.
 

The fixed elements since 2019 - PJ, Simon, Callahan. Players made plays that year (most of them, I still see a dropped ball in Iowa). Why do they make fewer now?
 

Buck_Buchanan said:
I think we run it quite a bit - at least variations. The issue is the 100 mph fast balls AK is throwing at them. Speed and timing need to be adjusted by all parties involved but holy crap that kid zings it too hard sometimes.
Click to expand...
I get if it’s a super close pass. But he threw it too hard shouldn’t be an excuse on down field throws or outside the hashes.
 

Forde with a bit of "dog bites man" here. I thought when we landed Bateman (and Fleck did have a first-round pick in Davis at WMU) we might have a chance to be "WR U" though not to the degree of tOSU or other WR U's. Having a tandem like Johnson and Bateman (and adding Autman-Bell as WR3) was a luxury and we haven't been able to duplicate that.

As others have said, if the passing game doesn't pick it up (and I'm not saying we need 2019 redux), we are going to see defenses simply stack the box and we've seen how that really hurts us.
 

He has talent that isn't TOO much further down the rung from those 2 right now. Those 2 WERE all BT players though.

There are a couple with pretty close to that talent level here now also though. But they need someone to feed them the ball.

Flat out AK has been the worst QB in the Big Ten so far. There is no way this continues. He has way too much talent. Now let's see if he has as much brains as he does talent and can figure some things out.
 

GophersInIowa said:
I know we're about ball control and time of possession, and don't think we should get away from that. But I really think for the passing game a little bit of hurry up would help a lot. Or at the very least once in awhile when we get lined up so early, just run the play called right away. We line up for so long and give the defense time to react to the formation.

I don't think I'm going out on a limb here to say we're pretty predictable in what we're doing sometimes.
Click to expand...
You control the clock and TOP on defense. The last couple years we have been in top 5 nationally in stopping third down conversions. That's ball control. The other team's offense are game spectators.

We allowed 12 third down conversions at North Carolina. NC easily won TOP.
 

Go Gophs said:
He has talent that isn't TOO much further down the rung from those 2 right now. Those 2 WERE all BT players though.

There are a couple with pretty close to that talent level here now also though. But they need someone to feed them the ball.

Flat out AK has been the worst QB in the Big Ten so far. There is no way this continues. He has way too much talent. Now let's see if he has as much brains as he does talent and can figure some things out.
Click to expand...
Really? I don’t think any of our WR’s are at all conference level…not saying they are bad, but not as good as those guys.
 

Athan Kaliakmanis was a 4-star recruit, and I thought the passing game would be more prominent with all the hints we heard. Football has moved to more passing.

Too many passes off the mark, dropped balls, unclear what is happening. Others questioned the offense calls/schemes.

I do think, and most of us probably do think, that Kaliakmanis has the talent to be very good. Will this take more time?

Does anyone know?

I will admit it was deflating to me to lose against a North Carolina team when Minnie had the defense and run game to win that day.

I don't know. Probably you veterans have a hunch.
 

The problem in the North Carolina game was not the play of the wide receivers.

Kaliakmanis is a four star recruit. A great QB should be able to elevate the play of his team mates. QB is the most important position on the field, not WR. Is Drake Maye a stud because of his wide receivers, or because he's a stud?

Athan needs to step up, and I believe he will.
 

AK needs seasoning and to not lose his confidence. We need a QB Whisperer.
 

SPEGOPHER said:
I wonder too if beyond the WR talent drop off, D coordinators have just gotten better at defending the RPO slant. We rarely seem to run it anymore, and I can’t imagine it’s only because we have a Crooms or Brockington instead of TJ/Bateman.
Click to expand...
I’m the only one who mentions the absence of Ciarocca. It’s a big difference maker. He’s a very good offensive coach.
 

We just need Athan to step up. Period. End of story.

All during Tanner Morgan's starting years, we were told that the Gophers needed a QB who was taller, had a better arm, was a better runner, etc.

Well... okay. Here we are. The Gophers now have a guy who is taller. Stronger arm. Better runner.

And now, we're hearing "Oh, but he needs Bateman and Johnson!"

Really? Really?

What the hell is point in being taller, a better runner, and having a bigger arm, if you are dependent on having two NFL level WRs?
 

Mental thing
Nagging injury
Inexperience and lack of confidence in what he’s doing.
Lack of confidence in protection and what they’re doing.
Defense throwing him curve balls of their own, processing speed
All the above.
Maybe his inherent mechanics just stink and he will never be a consistently accurate passer but that seems least likely.

Have to think it’s a temporary yips-like issue, correctable mechanics issue. The coaches see him every day and know, plebeian fans don’t. If he were 2023 season inaccurate in practice or high school no way he’d ever see the field, or been recruited to an FBS program to begin with. He looked better overall last year, as far as I can recall. Something correctable, have to believe.

2019 capable QB and next level receivers. 2020-2022 MN had a capable, accurate QB but alternately scheme, receivers misfired. Couldn’t win 50/50, or couldn’t catch. 2023 seems guys are generally running free somewhere but having delivery issues and some hands problems. QB having growing pains. WRs better than last year, but BSF horrible as a receiver so far. Nowhere but up. Time to lock in.
 


It's hard to know what the biggest culprit is for the passing game's downfall. I do think it's become a chicken or the egg issue as the failures in the passing game have corresponded with Minnesota having a realy hard time recruiting WR's and especially QB's in the past couple of cycles. When kids see you are down at the bottom of the passing stats with Army and Navy, it becomes a really tough sell. I do think Fleck, as head coach who is neither an offensive or defensive mastermind, needs to do better on the recruiting trail than he's done in recent years. He started out his tenure talking about top 25 classes and continutes to talk about out recruiting each successive class, but that has not been the case. We can argue where NIL fits in to this, but that would be discussion for another thread.

It's maybe damning with faint praise, but I thought the passing game looked the best it has this season against UNC. For the first time, we were open deep for big plays/td's and it was 3 separate guys who got open in Crooms/Brockington/Jackson. Ryan Burns on his podcast stated that he thought criticism towards Harbaugh was much more warranted for his role as QB coach due to Athan's play than the actual playcalling (though he acknowledged the red zone was a problem in that area). I am holding out hope that with two weeks to work on things with games against Northwestern and Louisiana that the passing game could still be pretty good through the meat of the B1G schedule.
 

EG#9 said:
It's hard to know what the biggest culprit is for the passing game's downfall. I do think it's become a chicken or the egg issue as the failures in the passing game have corresponded with Minnesota having a realy hard time recruiting WR's and especially QB's in the past couple of cycles. When kids see you are down at the bottom of the passing stats with Army and Navy, it becomes a really tough sell. I do think Fleck, as head coach who is neither an offensive or defensive mastermind, needs to do better on the recruiting trail than he's done in recent years. He started out his tenure talking about top 25 classes and continutes to talk about out recruiting each successive class, but that has not been the case. We can argue where NIL fits in to this, but that would be discussion for another thread.

It's maybe damning with faint praise, but I thought the passing game looked the best it has this season against UNC. For the first time, we were open deep for big plays/td's and it was 3 separate guys who got open in Crooms/Brockington/Jackson. Ryan Burns on his podcast stated that he thought criticism towards Harbaugh was much more warranted for his role as QB coach due to Athan's play than the actual playcalling (though he acknowledged the red zone was a problem in that area). I am holding out hope that with two weeks to work on things with games against Northwestern and Louisiana that the passing game could still be pretty good through the meat of the B1G schedule.
Click to expand...

Good stuff here. We need dynamic WRs.
 

You must log in or register to reply here.



Top Bottom