Painful, yet fascinating column: Reliving one fateful night in Gophers football

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denguegopher said:
Don't get me going on that game!!! What I can't believe is that I have laughed about it. Who told the story about popping a vessel in his eye and getting arrested on a delinquent traffic ticket after his buddy got a DUI?
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That was me whose eye burst. Was best man in a wedding that night. Ceremony was scheduled for Friday night so as not to conflict with the game. Of course the game was then moved to Friday. Dad of the groom and I stood at the bar during the entire reception, screaming at Mason to stop the screen. My eyeball burst. My toast sucked. I wasn't happy. I still feel bad about kinda sorta negatively impacting the event. The put that game away in the third and I'm happy, I quit paying attention to the game, am involved in the reception, don't have a red eyeball in many of the pictures, and give a hilarious and insightful toast. I still wanna fight Mason.
 

Big Ten Mind said:
Walrus, Mase was a turnaround artist - and good at it however he was 12 - 48 against D1 teams that finished above .500 (.200 winning %) and 2 - 31 vs. teams that finished in the AP Top 25 Rarely fielded a defense and his results indicated that (save 1999)[/QU

And just who have we had who did better? Kill? Brewster? Wacker? Gutey? hoax? Salem? Stoll? (When Stoll coached here it was the BIG 2/little 8 Conference. Did you see Stoll's record against Michigan and tOSU...even MSU pretty much owned Gopher Coaches for decades. I'd guess Murray's final half dozen or more seasons didn't have too many wins over too many teams that FINISHED in the Top 25. I KNOW Wes Fessler didn't win many over top 25 teams. And, even Bernie Bierman didn't do so well when he came back after WWII.

Do you have a CLUE how Gopher Coaches have fared against top teams in the conference other than in Murray's first ten years...or Bernie's first run here at Minnesota?

I may just have to go back and check the record books to see if the crap you are selling is TOTALLY for real. Stoll didn't beat both tOSU and Michigan. Neither did Gutey. ONLY Bernie, Murray and Glen accomplished that during the past 70 plus years or so. Bernie and Murray didn't play tOSU and Michigan in the same season very often.

IF you are waiting for any coach to do much better...you may very well have a mighty long wait, but, I am pulling for Coach Kill to get a win against a top 25 team...or even to get a win against a conference team that finishes above 500 in the conference. That Brewster certainly never got that done. He never even won a border battle trophy game...let alone the JUG.
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What a horrific night. Probably the most deflating loss I've bore witness to (though Wisconsin in 2005 is a close 2nd, simply because of the rivalry and how goddamn sick I am of losing to the Badgers). Some have said it before, that there was a feeling about midway thru the 4th quarter that you just knew we weren't going to close the deal.

Those that know this Michigan game well, probably got the same unsettling feeling in their gut, albeit on a milder scale, during the 4th quarter of the bowl game vs. Texas Tech last year. That came despite a completely different coaching staff. Such is life as a Gopher fan.
 

imthewalrus said:
Big Ten Mind said:
Walrus, Mase was a turnaround artist - and good at it however he was 12 - 48 against D1 teams that finished above .500 (.200 winning %) and 2 - 31 vs. teams that finished in the AP Top 25 Rarely fielded a defense and his results indicated that (save 1999)[/QU

And just who have we had who did better? Kill? Brewster? Wacker? Gutey? hoax? Salem? Stoll? (When Stoll coached here it was the BIG 2/little 8 Conference. Did you see Stoll's record against Michigan and tOSU...even MSU pretty much owned Gopher Coaches for decades. I'd guess Murray's final half dozen or more seasons didn't have too many wins over too many teams that FINISHED in the Top 25. I KNOW Wes Fessler didn't win many over top 25 teams. And, even Bernie Bierman didn't do so well when he came back after WWII.

Do you have a CLUE how Gopher Coaches have fared against top teams in the conference other than in Murray's first ten years...or Bernie's first run here at Minnesota?

I may just have to go back and check the record books to see if the crap you are selling is TOTALLY for real. Stoll didn't beat both tOSU and Michigan. Neither did Gutey. ONLY Bernie, Murray and Glen accomplished that during the past 70 plus years or so. Bernie and Murray didn't play tOSU and Michigan in the same season very often.

IF you are waiting for any coach to do much better...you may very well have a mighty long wait, but, I am pulling for Coach Kill to get a win against a top 25 team...or even to get a win against a conference team that finishes above 500 in the conference. That Brewster certainly never got that done. He never even won a border battle trophy game...let alone the JUG.
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It's time Gopher coaches are compared to their peers in the B10 and not some underachieving low bar predecessor like Wacker and Brew...1 win 7 losses vs. Joe Tiller, 1 win 7 losses vs. tOSU, 1 win 7 losses vs. Mich, 2 wins 8 losses vs. WI, 4 wins 6 losses vs. Iowa, 3 wins 5 losses vs PSU - could care less what these former bunk coaches did previously and the rest of the B10 could care less too

7-5 records shouldn't be the goal
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You're right about the Tech game last year in Houston. Sitting among the Gopher fans you could see the skepticism in their eyes. We've been cursed by the football gods. After the 2003 game I get that uneasy feeling heading into the 4th quarter no matter what the score is. I honestly think the only thing that will break the curse is going 12-0. Gopher football is the Lucy Charlie Brown thing with the football.
 

Big Ten Mind said:
imthewalrus said:
It's time Gopher coaches are compared to their peers in the B10 and not some underachieving low bar predecessor like Wacker and Brew...1 win 7 losses vs. Joe Tiller, 1 win 7 losses vs. tOSU, 1 win 7 losses vs. Mich, 2 wins 8 losses vs. WI, 4 wins 6 losses vs. Iowa, 3 wins 5 losses vs PSU - could care less what these former bunk coaches did previously and the rest of the B10 could care less too

7-5 records shouldn't be the goal
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So, what the heck are you going to do big ten mind? Are you going to fire a damn coach every two or three seasons when they don't beat 7-5 records or beat tOSU at LEAST 2 times out of 8 games? And NOBODY is ever going to get to even coach 8 games against tOSU withyour loose talk and reckless expectations. You are totally unrealistic and your firing of coaches every couple of years is going to keep this program at the BOTTOM of the league forever. What you are crying about just is NOT going to happen...even if you cheat your butt off...start playing players and hire urban renewal away from tOSU. He is NOT going to win at Minnesota the way he wins at tOSU big ten mind. All Conference member schools are not created or maintained equally when it comes to running a football program. Part of it IS history. Part of it is attitude of the school. Part of it lies in shades of gray and in between the lines.

So, how long have you been attending Gopher Football games? How long have you been watching this Conference?

Talk tough about needing to increase expectations of our coach....but...how the hell are you going to pull off meeting your entirely unrealistic talk big ten mind? You have NO plan for those lofty expectations of yours and I'd have to say that it just is NOT going to happen the way you talk about it. Get in touch with reality big ten mind. You can cheat your butt of and not accomplish what you say you expect of my Golden Gopher Football Program.
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imthewalrus said:
Big Ten Mind said:
So, what the heck are you going to do big ten mind? Are you going to fire a damn coach every two or three seasons when they don't beat 7-5 records or beat tOSU at LEAST 2 times out of 8 games? And NOBODY is ever going to get to even coach 8 games against tOSU withyour loose talk and reckless expectations. You are totally unrealistic and your firing of coaches every couple of years is going to keep this program at the BOTTOM of the league forever. What you are crying about just is NOT going to happen...even if you cheat your butt off...start playing players and hire urban renewal away from tOSU. He is NOT going toe wi at Minnesota the way he wins at tOSU big ten mind.

So, how long have you been attending Gopher Football games? How long have you been watching this Conference?

Talk tough about needing to increase expectations of our coach....but...how the hell are you going to pull off meeting your entirely unrealistic talk big ten mind? You have NO plan for those lofty expectations of yours and I'd have to say that it just is NOT going to happen the way you talk about it. Get in touch with reality big ten mind. You can cheat your butt of and not accomplish what you say you expect of my Golden Gopher Football Program.
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I'm not suggesting firing anybody...this is a tough rebuild and overall been a coach killing program (save Holtz & Mase)...given the lack of production from the natural recruiting footprint, eventually the only plan that could get MN to lofty heights (B10 title) is to bite the bullet and someday hire a Saban/Meyer/Pete Carroll type personality that could recruit the hell out of nearly everyone...not going to happen so hopefully Kill can catch a window of opporunity on the next 4-5 years and sneak through it to get to Cap One or Outback
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ruppertflywheel said:
You're right about the Tech game last year in Houston. Sitting among the Gopher fans you could see the skepticism in their eyes. We've been cursed by the football gods. After the 2003 game I get that uneasy feeling heading into the 4th quarter no matter what the score is. I honestly think the only thing that will break the curse is going 12-0. Gopher football is the Lucy Charlie Brown thing with the football.
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That's exactly it. All those late game losses, (1997 Wisc, 2003 Mich, 2005 Wisc, 2002 & 2008 NW, and on and on) have us conditioned to preternaturally detect a loss that will be snatched out of the jaws of victory.
 



Gopher Bandanna Guy said:
That's exactly it. All those late game losses, (1997 Wisc, 2003 Mich, 2005 Wisc, 2002 & 2008 NW, and on and on) have us conditioned to preternaturally detect a loss that will be snatched out of the jaws of victory.
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Purdue 2001 was the first time I had a "How the F did that just happen to us?" moment. I felt like that one deserved special recognition.
 

Gopher Bandanna Guy said:
What a horrific night. Probably the most deflating loss I've bore witness to (though Wisconsin in 2005 is a close 2nd, simply because of the rivalry and how goddamn sick I am of losing to the Badgers). Some have said it before, that there was a feeling about midway thru the 4th quarter that you just knew we weren't going to close the deal.

Those that know this Michigan game well, probably got the same unsettling feeling in their gut, albeit on a milder scale, during the 4th quarter of the bowl game vs. Texas Tech last year. That came despite a completely different coaching staff. Such is life as a Gopher fan.
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+1
 

Gopher Bandanna Guy said:
...
Those that know this Michigan game well, probably got the same unsettling feeling in their gut, albeit on a milder scale, during the 4th quarter of the bowl game vs. Texas Tech last year. That came despite a completely different coaching staff. Such is life as a Gopher fan.
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I was going to ask you "which Texas Tech bowl game", but then saw the "last year" part.
 

Jike Spingleton said:
Purdue 2001 was the first time I had a "How the F did that just happen to us?" moment. I felt like that one deserved special recognition.
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No *&^!#*&^!#*&^!#*&^!# how do you let a team go from their own two and get into field goal range with under 10 seconds to play. Not to mention the NC State and Northwestern losses in 2000. Wisconsin in 2008 was mild compared to some these other losses
 



Replacement Gopher

Thanks! I have now had two good belly laughs that are associated with that game. I didn't think that was possible, but you did it.
 


bemidjigopher said:
No *&^!#*&^!#*&^!#*&^!# how do you let a team go from their own two and get into field goal range with under 10 seconds to play. Not to mention the NC State and Northwestern losses in 2000. Wisconsin in 2008 was mild compared to some these other losses
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Part terrible defensive execution, part terrible defensive coaching, and part awful timekeeping by the refs. Watch how fast the refs normally set the ball for bad teams in blue chip program stadiums in similar situations; then see just how long they took to allow Purdue to set up their plays. Disgusting. But that's what you get, I guess, as Minnesota fan. You're supposed to be pained.
 

bemidjigopher said:
No *&^!#*&^!#*&^!#*&^!# how do you let a team go from their own two and get into field goal range with under 10 seconds to play. Not to mention the NC State and Northwestern losses in 2000. Wisconsin in 2008 was mild compared to some these other losses
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That's why Mase was an average coach at best. You keep blowing lead after lead no matter how big or how little time. Take the fourth quarter away and he was a good coach. I remember the Purdue game under a minute ,I believe no timeouts and I thought too much time on the clock. You just can't have that. I take it back. Mason was a terrible coach. He should have told his punter his options if things broke down against Wisconsin. He sucked and sucks on the Big Ten network. 600 yards rushing, twenty -one point lead and loses to Michigan. I want to forget the Mr. Bewildered era.
 

Blackhammer said:
That's why Mase was an average coach at best. You keep blowing lead after lead no matter how big or how little time. Take the fourth quarter away and he was a good coach. I remember the Purdue game under a minute ,I believe no timeouts and I thought too much time on the clock. You just can't have that. I take it back. Mason was a terrible coach. He should have told his punter his options if things broke down against Wisconsin. He sucked and sucks on the Big Ten network. 600 yards rushing, twenty -one point lead and loses to Michigan. I want to forget the Mr. Bewildered era.
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Everything has been SO good since the Mason buy out? Wow blackhammer, Something pretty darn good had better happen pretty darn soon.

Personally, I'd much rather compete and lose some heartbreakers than the alternative. Be careful here blackhammer, sometimes you get a LOT of what you claim to want...but...it is NOT always better than what you had.

The art of the extension...the buy out...the fire...AND...the hire is most often a very costly, a very messy, a very unsatisfactory and a very destructive process. The U of M has already become a GRAVEYARD of college football coaching careers. To get it right is NEVER a sure thing.

blackhammer, it is starting to look as though you will continue to get what you have wanted. The beat goes on...and on...and on. But no, you don't have Mason to bitch about any longer. That sure is a GOOD thing for you! How did that Brewball experiment work out for you? Here is hoping for the VERY BEST for Coach Kill and the KILL STAFF. They need something really good to happen soon.

But, blackhammer: you may be moving on down the road without ever having to lose a heart breaking game against a conference foe team for a very long time. Will there be any wins? Or will the losses just not be of the heart-breaking variety? Mason brought me the best levels of competition I have seen in the past 40 plus seasons. But, then I'd rather lose some heartbreakers and compete than to just emotionlessly watch my team systematically get pounded into the ground.
But, you got to have it your way balckhammer. You won. "...to the victor goes the spoils..." Hope you are really enjoying it all blackhammer. You have had it your way for six full seasons and a half of another one. Way to go blackhammer...way to go.

Come on Gophers! Bring home the JUG!
 

imthewalrus said:
Personally, I'd much rather compete and lose some heartbreakers than the alternative.
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I thought the only thing that mattered was BIG TEN WINS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111111111
 

And that is why EVERYONE who wins less Conference games than Coach Mason did will NEED to be fired. But, while we are waiting for the privilege to fire another coach...it is FAR better to compete and lose than to NOT even come close to competing and lose fryguy Yes, Conference wins will tell the story...always has and always will. But it IS better to compete than to get blown out...even if eventually you do lose
 

Sports_Realist said:
The Gophers still haven't recovered from that loss and I'm not sure when or if another such opportunity will come along. We'll have good teams in the future, but that could have been a program changer. Those rarely come around the pike.

Chip alluded to the Gophers possibly making the Rose Bowl, but failed to mention that had the Gophers beaten the Wolverines, with all other results turning out the same, it would have created a four way tie for the Big Ten championship with Minnesota, Michigan, Purdue, and Ohio State all at 6-2. The Gophers would have gone to Pasadena on the tiebreaker for having the least recent appearance of the quartet.
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That was not the first tiebreaker in a 4-way tie back then. I know this because Iowa was in a 4-way tie at 6-2 in 1990 and went to Pasadena because they had beaten the other 3 teams involved. If that had not happened then there were various elimination factors that whittled the teams down until only 2 remained, at which point the "longest time between Rose Bowl appearances" came into play.

I don't know enough about all the particulars involving those 4 teams in 2003, but longest time since previous Pasadena trip would not have given the Gophers an automatic spot in the Rose Bowl.
 

One thing about this stuff with Rose Bowl visits but for one loss in 1999, or 2003 . . . sure, it's entirely possible that would have happened, and it's fun to speculate about, but if the last 40 years of Gopher history have taught us anything, it's that you cannot count on a victory happening before the game is over. Certainly the Gophers might have run the table if they win the 2003 Michigan game, and maybe winning that game gives the program and everybody involved with it a boost of confidence . . . but it's also possible overconfidence seeps in . . . or the magnitude of the opportunity catches up with the team and everybody comes out flat in a subsequent game, especially the season-ender in Iowa.
 

I did some digging and found that the first tiebreaker was head to head, but only if all four of the teams played each other, which wasn't the case (Gophers didn't play Purdue or Ohio State). From there, it was best overall record. Assuming all else goes the same apart from us beating Michigan instead of losing, then Minnesota and Ohio State would both have had 10-2 (6-2) records. At that stage it goes to least recent appearance with the Gophers heading to the Rose Bowl.
 

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