Our O Next Year

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I agree with Ogee that there are a number of bodies at WR and the hope is that a few of them step up. The scary part to me is what if none of them do? You could easily be looking at a very average collection of receivers with no #1 or even #2 guys. To open up the run game for Gray you need to be able to force the safeties into coverage. If the receivers can be single covered then it leaves the safeties free to attack the LOS and shut down the run game. Teams had to pay attention to McKnight last year and Decker before him. I would bet the defensive coordinators didn't spend much time worrying about any other receiver on our roster.

Not to say these guys can't develop into weapons with time and experience but receiver is typically a position where it doesn't take stars a long time to show up at the college level. Right now I just don't see it from any of these guys as being anything more then average big ten receivers.
 

50PoundHead said:
I like Gray a lot and was one of his strongest supporters this season when some were calling for a switch to Shortell, but it's pretty obvious that he is not the ideal QB for the system Kill and Limegrover had at their previous stops. Gray needs to improve his accuracy and his ball skills and he can do that with a strong off-season. He has the arm strength and his delivery is okay, but I wouldn't say he throws the most catchable ball I've seen.

Bottom line is he's a stud and Limegrover is a smart enough guy to be able to dream up a few wrinkles over the off-season that will increase Gray's on-field production even more, especially if Marquise can hit more receivers in their comfort zones.
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Why do you say that? In their three years at N. Illinois, they averaged 23 pass attempts and 168 yards passing per game. This year we averaged 23 pass attempts and 150 yards per game. Obviously his accuracy needs to get better, but that's the case with any offense we would be running.
 

Ogee Oglethorpe said:
I've refrained from commenting on this after a few previous posts but your man-love for the current starting QB is borderline creepy.

I have a hard time saying WR is one of the main concerns for next year when Gray averaged 17 pass attempts per game in BT play (excluding the MSU game which saw an inordinate 32 attempts). In the last three games, when the Gophers arguably played their best football, Gray himself averaged 24 carries and just 16 pass attempts.

I'm just saying that between how often Limegrover THROWS the ball with Gray at QB and how many WR's the Gophers have on the roster that could potentially step up, I'm just not as concerned about that position next year. Among Green, Moulton, DCT, Jones, Harris, and the newcomers, I'd be shocked if one or two doesn't separate themselves as a more than servicable WR.

If Gray goes down at some point and the Gophers have to go with a QB that is more of a throwing threat (which at this point would be anybody), WR will definitely be more of an area of concern.
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Ogee-

I would not define it as man-love, come on! I simply was a staunch supporter who thought and still think he was the best QB on the roster for the offense. His mobility was key behind a patchwork offensive line. Nowhere did I ever rave about his throwing abilities. My point in my previous post on this thread is that there were far more drops than amazing catches by the current receving corps. Between McKnight, Moulton and Lair there were about a dozen brutal drops this year. There were not a dozen amazing catches. Now, I will grant you there were plenty of uncatchable balls thrown by Gray, no question. However, I thought he improved is accuracy bit-by-bit as the season moved along.
 

Stan The Caddy said:
Ogee-

I would not define it as man-love, come on! I simply was a staunch supporter who thought and still think he was the best QB on the roster for the offense. His mobility was key behind a patchwork offensive line. Nowhere did I ever rave about his throwing abilities. My point in my previous post on this thread is that there were far more drops than amazing catches by the current receving corps. Between McKnight, Moulton and Lair there were about a dozen brutal drops this year. There were not a dozen amazing catches. Now, I will grant you there were plenty of uncatchable balls thrown by Gray, no question. However, I thought he improved is accuracy bit-by-bit as the season moved along.
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Duly noted. It depends on your definition of "amazing catches" also. There were a lot of situations where a receiver made a catch that could have easily been incomplete, and many instances where the catch was made but because of the location they missed out on significant YAC. Like I mentioned in my previous post, the Rabe catch is a great example. Nobody is saying anything about it because it was a TD. It was HORRIBLE pass and if Rabe doesn't come up with it, it's likely 90% on Gray and 10% on Rabe.

No doubt Gray improved over the season, not so much as a passer, but as a QB in general. He just looked more comfortable, which led to good things overall. Your comment "he was the best QB on the roster for the offense" is accurate in my opinion; but I still think Shortell could/would be the better QB for MOST offenses (but that's a completely different discussion).

Bottom line; I'm happy with the progression that was made and I think with what we know at this point, Gray should be the guy for next year.
 

We are on the same page and I understand the point on YAC, etc... He did short arm the Rabe pass, but after watching the replay on DVR it appeared Gray was lofting the pass over the LB who was covering the short receiver, so the throw was a tad bit more difficlut than it appeared, still a throw a D1 QB needs to put in a better position.

I agree 100% on how Gray looked much more comfortable as the year went along. I hope some of the pass catchers can step up up next year and show the same type of improvement. No matter the offense, you need somebody who can consistently catch the ball. Two second half drives against Illinois were stopped purely by terrible drops on 3rd down. That simply cannot happen.
 


Gray isn't a super accurate passer and there really is very little to argue about with that. That said, our WR's (including McKnight) have dropped a TON of passes. I'm not even counting the passes that were not thrown very well but still hit the receivers on their hands, i'm talking about flat out drops.

Gray isn't very accurate but that doesn't excuse our WRs for the amount of drops they've had.

Also, you can't discount the MSU game. If you discount it for Gray, you have to discount it for McKnight as well. It was a game where those two were hooking up nicely. It was partially Gray throwing the ball better and partially McKnight's best game of the year (by far).
 

QB - Gray/Shortell
RB - Kirkwood/Gillum/Cobb (not in order, they should all get some carries)
WR - Green
WR- Moulton
WR - DCT
TE - Raabe/Goodger
LT - E. Olson
LG - T. Olson
C- Mottla
RG - Gjere
RT - Bush

Kill said Bush is the best O-lineman on the team. I'll take his word for it and assume Bush starts at RT where he was playing during fall camp. Gjere is huge and strong but seemed to struggle with edge-rushers, so I could see him becoming a good pulling guard. Center is the biggest unknown to me, but I'll predict Mottla since he's been here for a while. There should be some great battles for playing time.
 

The scary part is we have no clue what we are going to get out of the receivers on the roster. McKnight caught 51 balls this year. The highest total for a returning player is Green with 15. I have heard rave reviews on DCT and Jones. Before he got hurt Jones had 9 catches in 7 games. DCT caught 8 over the course of 9 games. Bottom line is we have no clue if any of those guys can handle going up against the top DB's in the conference. True they were both freshman but Decker caught in the 20's his freshman year and Ron Johnson was in the mid 30's.

One other scary stat was that Kirkwood who I like as a player and looks to probably be a key in the backfield next season only averaged 3.6 yards per carry. That won't get it done in the Big Ten.

Thankfully the offense has the off season to play with things and figure out who are going to be the go to guys but the bottom line is Gray needs to stay healthy because without his running ability this team may have a really hard time moving the ball next year.
 

Agreed about Kirkwood's 3.6 yrds/carry, but we're looking for a vast improvement in the OL, which will hopefully help with running.

Re WR's, I've seen a few raves about a transfer currently redshirting named Engel who has real speed and some college experience - although not at B1G level
 



nc2mn said:
Agreed about Kirkwood's 3.6 yrds/carry, but we're looking for a vast improvement in the OL, which will hopefully help with running.

Re WR's, I've seen a few raves about a transfer currently redshirting named Engel who has real speed and some college experience - although not at B1G level
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I expect more out of Fruechte next season than Engel. Fruechte will be here in January, he has legit Big 10 size (and presumably strength) and he seems pretty fast. Engel could be nice, but I don't think he joins the team until this summer.

I don't know much about Engel, but having walk ons like him definitely helps.
 

GophersInIowa said:
I agree with this. My biggest concern on offense next year by far is at RB. We need someone to step up. I think that would take a lot of pressure off of Gray in the running game.
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I am worried about RB, too. We haven't had a real threat there since Mason's teams - and Gray needs some help. If he carries too much, he'll get worn down or injured. We need a strong guy who can break tackles and pick up 700, 800 yards for the season.
 

Someone stated earlier in the thread that improved line play will lead to better RB numbers and I agree with them however we also have been missing that special talent at RB for a while. Maroney and Barber were helped by having great lines in front of them but those two would still have been good even behind a weaker line.

Gray is going to run in this offense but if we can find a compliment to him in the backfield he won't have to run quite as much and the reduced number of hits will increase his chances of staying on the field. Would love to see Gray and a RB have an equal number of yards at the end of the season as opposed to Gray being the leading rusher by a ton of yards like he was this past season.

On a side note I hope Gray works on sliding or getting out of bounds a little more often. I know he is a big guy and wants to fight for the extra yard but as the clear cut top offensive weapon on this team he needs to protect his body as much as possible.
 

I agree that our offensive line improving will help our running game, but our backs weren't very good this season. Bennett is one of my favorite Gophers, he did everything the right way, played hard, never complained, etc., so I don't mean to be too critical of him.

However, they missed a lot of opportunities, even this year for yardage. MV had a really good article/blog where it broke down many missed opportunities for our running backs (had pictures and broke it down play by play). It confirmed what I thought I had been seeing (albeit in game speed with a couple drinks in me), our running backs weren't great at making the right reads and cuts.

Even good offensive lines are competing against Big 10 defenses and those holes aren't going to be there forever. Our running backs (along with our line) need to improve as well.
 



Bob_Loblaw said:
I agree that our offensive line improving will help our running game, but our backs weren't very good this season. Bennett is one of my favorite Gophers, he did everything the right way, played hard, never complained, etc., so I don't mean to be too critical of him.

However, they missed a lot of opportunities, even this year for yardage. MV had a really good article/blog where it broke down many missed opportunities for our running backs (had pictures and broke it down play by play). It confirmed what I thought I had been seeing (albeit in game speed with a couple drinks in me), our running backs weren't great at making the right reads and cuts.

Even good offensive lines are competing against Big 10 defenses and those holes aren't going to be there forever. Our running backs (along with our line) need to improve as well.
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+1. Agree 100%.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
I agree that our offensive line improving will help our running game, but our backs weren't very good this season. Bennett is one of my favorite Gophers, he did everything the right way, played hard, never complained, etc., so I don't mean to be too critical of him.
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Agreed, Bob.

I can’t say I was always paying attention, but I think we will need a back that can pick up blitzes too…and I am not sure who that is with Bennett gone?
 

Flatfoot said:
Agreed, Bob.

I can’t say I was always paying attention, but I think we will need a back that can pick up blitzes too…and I am not sure who that is with Bennett gone?
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Yeah, Bennett was really good at protection. If I were Gillum / Wright / Kirkwood / Cobb, i'd be doing as much work and studying as possible in getting myself better for pass protection. I think that (and health) were things that won Bennett the job last season and whoever our best RB is in protection will definitely have an inside track next year.
 

I also hope we can get the RBs more involved with the passing game next season. Bennett had just three receptions this year. Three total catches from all of your backs over the course of 12 games is not good.
 

GophersInIowa said:
I also hope we can get the RBs more involved with the passing game next season. Bennett had just three receptions this year. Three total catches from all of your backs over the course of 12 games is not good.
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I didn't see a lot of screens run this year, but that could be because they weren't comfortable with the blocking on screens?
 

The offense will be okay if they can stay healthy. We had too many injuries this year.
 

I agree that our RB's and WR's seem thin for 2012--but it's a closed system, folks. The carries and receptions don't just "go away". Gray will still be handing the ball off and throwing it. Assuming that there isn't a fumble on every hand off and there is a receiver at the end of every throw, it's just different names and different players.

We will miss McKnight and Bennett, but their receptions and carries will be taken up by someone else. Gray's accuracy will improve, and there will be hold-overs and new guys on the other end. There will be some drops, but guys like DCT, Moulton, Jones, Fruechte, Harris, Green, Rabe, Goodger, and maybe Harbison will pick up the slack. McKnight accounted for just over 4 catches a game--that's one a quarter. I think there will be someone open on one play a quarter to catch that ball.

As for RB, we'll have to see. Kirkwood, Cobb, Gillum, and even Williams will get carries, one may rise to the top. Let's not forget about unknown quantity Cole Banham, who was named by the coaching staff as Offensive Practice Player of the Year on Sunday.

Gray can have a monster year if he can stay healthy. I disagree that he carries the ball too much. He got dinged a little this year. Considering what kind of a runner he is, and the difficulty that other players have in bringing him down, he should have been really beat up by the Illinois game. It was arguably his best game of the year. An improved O-line will make him even better, and in turn keep him healthier. I'm already getting excited!
 

highwayman said:
I agree that our RB's and WR's seem thin for 2012--but it's a closed system, folks. The carries and receptions don't just "go away". Gray will still be handing the ball off and throwing it. Assuming that there isn't a fumble on every hand off and there is a receiver at the end of every throw, it's just different names and different players.

We will miss McKnight and Bennett, but their receptions and carries will be taken up by someone else. Gray's accuracy will improve, and there will be hold-overs and new guys on the other end. There will be some drops, but guys like DCT, Moulton, Jones, Fruechte, Harris, Green, Rabe, Goodger, and maybe Harbison will pick up the slack. McKnight accounted for just over 4 catches a game--that's one a quarter. I think there will be someone open on one play a quarter to catch that ball.

As for RB, we'll have to see. Kirkwood, Cobb, Gillum, and even Williams will get carries, one may rise to the top. Let's not forget about unknown quantity Cole Banham, who was named by the coaching staff as Offensive Practice Player of the Year on Sunday.

Gray can have a monster year if he can stay healthy. I disagree that he carries the ball too much. He got dinged a little this year. Considering what kind of a runner he is, and the difficulty that other players have in bringing him down, he should have been really beat up by the Illinois game. It was arguably his best game of the year. An improved O-line will make him even better, and in turn keep him healthier. I'm already getting excited!
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Good post. It'll be interesting to see what we have in Banham (if he's more than a really valuable practice player). I think another name to keep in mind is Wright, the kid from Florida who ran into the kicker a few too many times. He's an interesting kid because he seems the most capable to make a switch to another position. He is 6'0" 195 lbs and was pretty good on special teams for us (he jumped out, I'm not sure how many tackles he got).

At 6'0" 195 he could be moved to S or even WR. I only talk about him possibly moving because that class has 2 RBs already (Cobb and Kirkwood) and he has the height to move, the willingness to hit and tackle (special teams) and I know he caught a lot of passes in HS. He's a talented kid, it'll be interesting to see if he gets into the mix at RB or switches positions.
 

The point is valid about someone will get those stats and I don't think anyone was trying to imply that every pass was going to be dropped or anything like that. But I disagree with the idea that it doesn't matter who is out there catching the ball or who is in the backfield. Having a very talented RB and WR takes a lot of pressure off of the QB and the offense as a whole. When Decker would get hurt the offensive production would take a hit.

I also made the point earlier in the thread that if you have a top receiver it causes the defense to use the safeties in help on that player and it can in turn open things up for the rest of the offense. If you just have a bunch of average guys that the typical B1G corner can cover 1 on 1 those safeties now become a factor in stopping the run game instead of being forced into coverage.

And yes someone will get those carries at the RB position and the development of the O-Line will have a role in how successful they are but think about the last time our running game looked truly impressive. We were handing off to guys like Barber and Maroney.

The final point in regards to the amount Gray runs the ball. The QB run is part of this offense so he is going to be asked to carry the ball plenty. However if he has a legit threat standing in the backfield with him it will open things up for the offense because defenses will have to worry about both guys. Yes there is a certain amount of plug and play in sports, especially college sports, but the quality of the player still matters. Hopefully some of these young guys will prove to be those special type of game changing players.
 

I'll agree with you to a point. The loss of McKnight is not like the loss of Decker--not even close. Other than the MSU game, he pretty much played like he was disinterested. DCT has a massive upside, especially if he becomes the #1. Jones, Harris, and Green will spread the D.

The loss of Bennett is more from the leadership standpoint than as a rusher. It would not be difficult to reproduce the RB rushing production from 2011. In fact, I would think it only will improve with the various types of RBs that will have a chance to be "the starter," and with the players' experience in the system and with our OL stable.

Gray rushed for almost 1000 yards when everyone knew he was going to run. That's simply amazing. If we learned anything about him this year, it was his leadership and his will. His passing will certainly improve, and not having a clear "go-to guy" may actually make him a better QB.

Just sayin'
 

Loss of Bennett

One important skill Bennett brought to the table was his excellent blocking skills. Somebody earlier pointed out that our present running backs need to be working on their blocking techniques if they want an edge in the competition to be the starter.
 

Gray rushed for almost 1000 yards when everyone knew he was going to run. That's simply amazing. If we learned anything about him this year said:
Replacing McKnight will certainly be easier then replacing Decker. My problem at the moment is I don't see that clear cut replacement yet. I see some guys with potential but McKnight was clearly Gray's favorite target last year as evidenced by the fact that he caught 51 balls and no one else got over 20. Spreading the ball around is a good thing but when you need the big play or the key 3rd down it is nice to know that you have a guy out there that can make a play for you. On a key 3rd down is there any receiver on this roster right now that you can say he will go out and make a play? I can't name that guy today, hopefully he will show up in spring ball and the first part of the season next year.

In regards to Gray's 1000 yards, keep in mind that many of those yards came from him making very athletic plays after the initial play broke down. Having a QB that can make those plays is great but you also don't want to rely on that because those broken plays can just as easily turn into disasters. Gray has struggled some already with injuries so to me the more hits you can avoid on him the better.
Replacing Bennett from a production standpoint won't be all that hard but we need a RB that can go to that next level and actually be a weapon for the offense.
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You all make some good points but to me the Line is the major concern and really the one that will be the biggest impact next year. If the line improves on what it did last year which should not be a problem this offense will have some success. This offense is going to be run based I believe the split the offense is looking for is 60% run 40% pass if that is the case the line has to be the driving force.

The other positions are important as well but Gray will be the best running back no matter who we add we just need some compliments in the backfield that can do some things. That search becomes easier if the line is opening holes to run through. The WR's in this offense are not nearly as important they need to be able to block and make some big plays once in a while to keep teams honest. Between BCT and Jones we should have two deep threats that can do that even if Gray never becomes the best passing QB in the world.
 

I'll make my last comment on this thread. No one knew ahead of time that McKnight would become the go-to-guy. Other than Decker, no Gopher WRs have done anything amazingly memorable their Sophomore years except play in a few games and make a few catches. Decker was a freak, a once in a coach's career-type WR. McKnight was distinctly average:

Decker
Fr 26 catches 378 yards 3 tds
So 67 catches 900 yards 9 tds
Jr 84 catches 1074 yards 7 tds
Sr 50 catches 758 yards 5 tds

McKnight
Fr 3 catches 38 yards 1 tds
So 17 catches 311 yards 0 tds
Jr 48 catches 750 yards 10 tds
Sr 51 catches 760 yards 4 tds

I guess, in conclusion, we have no idea who will be the next stud WR for this team. We might not have one. In years past (yes, different type of O), the ball was thrown around pretty evenly. It's better to have many options than one. Decker was a freak that could consistently catch a ball in difficult circumstances. You may never see the likes of him again.
 

They will not identify a starting o-line until at least spring practice and maybe fall practice. They have something like 9 kids coming back who played a lot this year, and actually played pretty well at the end of the season despite constant change. They have at least three RS Frosh who will be in the mix for PT. They will want good competition for positions and the good news is they will have it.
That and Gray coming back are the two best things that could happen for next year, because it is what killed us the first half of the year.
 

True we may not find the next Eric Decker for a while. It took a while to replace Ron Johnson. In the meantime there were guys that stepped up and became the go-to-guy much the way McKnight did (along with Gray) the year after Decker graduated. No one on this squad looks to be the next Eric Decker the problem I have right now is I don't even seen the next McKnight. Maybe he is there and will show up next season.

It will all work itself out and I think we have pretty much beat this one to death. For Gray and the offense to take the next step there needs to at least be the threat of a passing game. We may be a run first team but if teams don't at least respect the guys on the outside then you face 8 in the box and it makes it really hard to run.

Now we just have to suffer through the long winter till we get a glimpse of how this will all play out.
 

Here's whats surely to be a stupid question. Now why again didn't Brewster redshirt McKnight? This had to be discussed at length on here at some point. I mean, we had Ralph Spry that year - did we even need any other receivers?
 

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